Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[Pegasus]

You could actually be taking too much. Tiredness/ anxiety could really go either way. Pinned pupils is not a sign of withdrawal. 40-60mg oxycodone is exactly what I took when I first switched to bupe, and snorting just under 1mg at that point actually got me quite high.

 

[dcraver877]

I switched to subutex today and all those symptoms have gone away. I feel pretty fine today albeit still low energy. I'm going to try only take 1 mg a day the next couple of days to see how it goes.

 

[cire113]

1 mg should be plenty...

I was on 500mg about and months later on sub I'm easily stable on 2-4mg a day

 

[lorne667]

So for almost 3 years, I've been doing opiates 2 days per week (separated by 3-4 days). On the days that I use: when the previous dose(s) wear off, I re-dose, then again, then again, etc. So probably about 3-4 doses on that day.

So on the days that I use, my optimal (comfortable) dose AT ONE TIME is about 40mg oxycodone (IR) plugged. So when considering the re-doses every 4 hours or so, in total I will consume around 120mg of oxy in a day (over 12 hours), twice per week.

WTF,
Anyway, I am at the point where I am feeling very depressed, and have mild withdrawal symptoms on the non-using days (the sick/cold feeling in my body's core). This is leaving me nonfunctional. And given that I am unwilling to stop opiates cold turkey, I am considering replacing oxycodone with low-dose suboxone (2 mg) on those 2 days per week.

I have asked people their thoughts on this, with SURPRISING answers. Pretty much everyone is saying that because of it's potency, buprenorphine will raise my tolerance more rapidly than full agonists will, and will end up being a worse problem than full agonists. They also said that the withdrawal will be more intense than full agonists. They are actually advising me to stay on FULL AGONISTS instead of switching to subs!!

I found this very hard to believe, despite bupe's potency, because of it's partial antagonistic properties. I don't believe the tolerance rise is more rapid, nor do I believe the withdrawal is more intense. However, these people seem to be VERY credible, so I need a second opinion.

Can you shed some light on this discrepancy of opinion? I would highly appreciate it. thanks in advance

(p.s. Don't respond with lectures or arguments as to why quitting cold turkey is the best option. I have already gone through these lectures with others, and I decided I will keep using opiates 2x per week. Keep responses on topic (suboxone tolerance & withdrawal vs. full agonist tolerance & withdrawal)

WTF??? WHo is this opiee "guest"???

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You could actually be taking too much. Tiredness/ anxiety could really go either way. Pinned pupils is not a sign of withdrawal. 40-60mg oxycodone is exactly what I took when I first switched to bupe, and snorting just under 1mg at that point actually got me quite high.

I agree with Pegasus; it is likely that the dosage is too high.

WTF??? WHo is this opiee "guest"???

People can post anonymously on Bluelight. These posts can also be moved/merged as necessary.

As far as I know, who is this "lorne667"?

1 mg should be plenty...

I was on 500mg about and months later on sub I'm easily stable on 2-4mg a day

That's great news man! I know a lot of people really struggle to make it onto bupe successfully after a large tolerance has developed. Even with heroin I don't know if I ever made it up to 500mg per day (equivalent mg of heroin to oxycodone of course)... I would have to do a lot of thinking and figure it out. Nonetheless, I know it isn't easy for anyone who's been on full agonist opiates long enough.

I switched to subutex today and all those symptoms have gone away. I feel pretty fine today albeit still low energy. I'm going to try only take 1 mg a day the next couple of days to see how it goes.

Great idea. Too high of a buprenorphine dosage definitely can cause low energy. A smaller dosage of bupe should be more stimulating in nature, although should still retain some depressant type properties.

 

[xburtonchic]

November will be my (hopefully) last month on Suboxone. I'm seeing my addiction specialist today, because I stupidly handed them out to a "friend" who swore he needed them... when really he was only reselling them for more dope. Needless to say we are not friends anymore, of course... but nonetheless I am out of Subs. I was on the tablets, but I plan on asking the doctor for the films this month... both to get around the absurdly strict "no early refills" policy, but also because they're better for tapering. So I guess it kind of worked out perfectly. I've been on Subs for a year and I am now down to .5 - 1 mg per day.

So. Tell me if this tapering plan is advisable or not, because I want to do a pretty fast taper...
Week One: .5 mg
Week Two: .25 mg
Week Three: 1/2 of a .25 mg cut strip.
After the third week, I want to do 1/4 of a .25 mg cut strip, and continue that until my body adjusts to the dose. Once it has, I plan to give myself three days of comfort and final preparation before jumping off completely into the abyss of withdrawal. The goal is to still have some Suboxone left. He gives me 15 strips per month, so with that amount and my tapering plan, does it seem possible that I will indeed have some left over? I'm looking at you, math geniuses... math is far from my area of expertise and I just got confused when I tried counting out lol. I feel like your mind and body crave it more when you have NO access to the drug, and plus, I want it to be available JUST in case. I'll be giving it to someone else to hold onto though (someone I TRUST not to sell it!), so I can't give in to temptation whenever I want. Does that even sound like a good tapering plan at all, or is it too fast, given my current dosage and the amount of time I've been on Subs?

Oh, and I also have another, sort of weird question - how do you safely go about plugging Suboxone? The film strips, since that's what I'll hopefully be getting today. I read on another site (that I do not trust as much as this one lol) that you have to mix it with water and it has to be a certain ratio of water to Sub, is that true? And if it is... well, how the heck are you supposed to get it up there and how are you supposed to know how much water to use? I want to try plugging it once I get to the lower dosages, like .25 and beyond, since I know the BA is better and I would probably be less miserable than if I were to continue doing SL. I have never plugged ANYTHING before, so I have absolutely no idea how to do this safely. Is it a bad idea to do it at all, if I'm trying to taper off? I mean, will my withdrawals be worse? I'm not sure if a higher BA means there's more Sub in your system or if more just crosses the blood/brain barrier. Like I said, I have no idea what I'm doing... I hardly even know what I'm talking about... so I just want to make sure I do it safely, if I do it at all, and that my taper goes as smoothly as possible.

Oh, and here is what I have available to me during my taper: Valerian Root extract, Gaia Melissa Lemon Balm extract, Melatonin, 5-HTP, St. John's Wort, Immodium, my Xanax prescription (I get 120 per month, .5mg). And exactly 3 Tramadol, 2 Percocet, and a way to get Roxy or Norco if I get really desperate. However, I would prefer to NOT have to use any full agonist opiates if possible and use as little Xanax as possible. Those are only a last resort method, only to be used if I am in excruciating pain or can't handle my anxiety with Vistaril or Valerian Root.

Sorry for all of the questions, guys; I fully appreciate in advance any answers to any of my questions. Or even any tips or advice for my taper/withdrawal. My last month on Suboxone... what a trip. Can't figure out if it's a bad trip or a good one though

 

[fosterjamesw]

Ive noticed the same thing and started to think the dots were normal and was the actual medicine cause thats how they normally are for me. I opened up sme new script today and noticed there were no dots and thought I got ripped off but the strips without the dots are easier on the taste. I noticed the one with the dots disolve quicker and are not as bitter other than that they both have the same affect. I did notice that I was waking up with hangover headaches and now after reading your thread i'm wondering if the dots had something to do with it. The tears were alot more common on the strips with the dots also. But I will repost and let you know if the hangover feeling morning headaches dissappear with the strips without the dots. If I notice the headaches are gone I will deffenitly call Reckitt (MFG) and see what its all about. Does anyone else have the problem with the "HANGOVER" feeling headaches in the morning? I call it that because to me it feels exactly like the headache I get after a rough night of drinking. I was thinking it might be of been caused by me going to sleep to soon after taking it or maybe just taking to much.. Thanks

 

[fosterjamesw]

Hey all, Has anyone who takes the strips of Suboxone noticed a difference in quality

Ive noticed the same thing and started to think the dots were normal and was the actual medicine cause thats how they normally are for me. I opened up sme new script today and noticed there were no dots and thought I got ripped off but the strips without the dots are easier on the taste. I noticed the one with the dots disolve quicker and are not as bitter other than that they both have the same affect. I did notice that I was waking up with hangover headaches and now after reading your thread i'm wondering if the dots had something to do with it. The tears were alot more common on the strips with the dots also. But I will repost and let you know if the hangover feeling morning headaches dissappear with the strips without the dots. If I notice the headaches are gone I will deffenitly call Reckitt (MFG) and see what its all about. Does anyone else have the problem with the "HANGOVER" feeling headaches in the morning? I call it that because to me it feels exactly like the headache I get after a rough night of drinking. I was thinking it might be of been caused by me going to sleep to soon after taking it or maybe just taking to much.. Thanks

Hey all,

Has anyone who takes the strips of Suboxone noticed a difference in quality of the strips from batch to batch or package to package?

Generally, my Suboxone has a slightly rough finish with tiny little dots on it. It looks like a little piece of orange sandpaper. It's also somewhat shiny. Over the past three months I have started to get these weird batches (or even an individual package) that vary from the previous description. Instead of being shiny and look like a little piece of sandpaper, there will be white blotches and the strip will be brittle. Pulling it out of the foil seems to tear theses without much pressure at all. I store my Suboxone per the instructions on the box, so I don't think my storage is a problem. I've gotten the crap strips from an unopened box of Suboxone straight from the pharmacy (not just one pharmacy, several). This makes me wonder if it's a manufacturing problem or a QA problem.

I haven't noticed a great deal of variation in the effects unless I take these different strips for three or more days. This can cause me a bit of discomfort, I'll feel as if I haven't took my total dose. Other times, taking the different strips will actually make me feel better or a bit euphoric. My goal is to maintain a consistent level of buprenorphine in my bloodstream, getting a buzz is nice but I would prefer just feeling normal on my dose.

Image Links (Sorry For The Quality):
Bad Suboxone Strip

Regular Strip

Has anyone else experienced this variation in the quality of the strips? Whether actual side-effects or just came upon a strange looking batch?


PS - I asked my doc about the crappy strips, he said some other patients had mentioned they've had them. He also said that other patients are getting sick from their normal dose of Suboxone when they take these shitty strips.

 

[5StarSquatHotel]

Where you getting your figures from bro? Sublingual b/a is way more than 18-35%, it's more like 60%+

Seriously??? shooting bupe isn't for fun, it's to make it more effective. You see, the sublingual BA is 18-35%. IV is 100%, obviously. So when you shoot suboxone, it is 3-4x as strong than sublingual. That means 2mg IV is equal to 6-10mg sublingual, except that it hits you all at once(instead of gradually) making it feel stronger. It also has a much shorter half-life IV.

In your case, it is a matter of whether you will really be better off IV'ing. Probably not, but you CAN make your pills last much longer. You see, you DO NOT NEED 24mg a day. It's just doctors are idiots and bupe is overprescribed. Plus I guarantee you aren't even getting the full 24mg, so your possibly getting less than 18% BA.

Anyway, if you IV 1-2mg, the effects will be comparable to the ridiculous dose your on now(most likely) but you will also have to redose much more often. Ultimately if you adjust to 1-2mg injections, then 24mg will last you 2 fucking weeks, and is much better, though in the long run, it may very well make your addiction worse. But if you do try, all it takes is a small shale, they dissolve easily.

(And in the future, USTFSE, or better yet, read the beginning of this very thread! It is the BUPE/SUBOXONE MEGATHREAD, ya know...)

Edit: oh you have a micron filter??? Well then at least it will be safe. But don't use a spoon; that is a pointless habit that is in peoples mind from shooting goddamn unpure dope. A shot glass is much more practical, no loss of liquid, and you can mix multiple pills at once)

 

[Pegasus]

Where you getting your figures from bro? Sublingual b/a is way more than 18-35%, it's more like 60%+

Sublingual is 35-40% from high-dose delivery systems (Suboxone/ Subutex) and up to 50% in an ethanol solution. Nasal is maybe what you're thinking of at 60%

 

[SubDude]

^It's pretty much established that methadone will be worse on your system than bupe. Methadone has a whole host of unfortunate side effects...

Source please on methadone being worse on your system than bupe... I think it would be mostly an individual thing based on several variables... including age, dosage, history of use...etc. Subs side effects are much worse for me.

 

[Pegasus]

^ Just the hypogonadism from methadone has a wide range of effects on the body. Testosterone effects much more than just sexuality-- also bone density, mood, etc. Sure, there are differences in subjective side effects, and I'm not trying to discount this, but buprenorphine certainly has a major advantage in not causing androgen deficiency. If you're trying to quit opiates and have the option of methadone or bupe, I think the average guy would be much better suited maintaining on bupe if they can.

 

[Znegative]

I get those morning headings fosterjamesW,
I feel really shitty every morning and I take 2 mg of suboxone 2x a day. The headaches feel like a really slow pulsation in my head. Waking up is an awful time I have to take my morning suboxone immediately to rid myself of it

 

[laCster]

how is suboxone with tramadol, and in what order should i take them?? i also got some xanax, diphenhydramine, and weeds too...

 

[SubDude]

^ Just the hypogonadism from methadone has a wide range of effects on the body. Testosterone effects much more than just sexuality-- also bone density, mood, etc. Sure, there are differences in subjective side effects, and I'm not trying to discount this, but buprenorphine certainly has a major advantage in not causing androgen deficiency. If you're trying to quit opiates and have the option of methadone or bupe, I think the average guy would be much better suited maintaining on bupe if they can.

IDK... for the avg person you could be right but don't believe there is accepted studies backing it up. In fact from what I've read, methadone has been researched to the hilt and subs relatively little in comparison. Thats understandable due to the length available for the 2 for maintenance treatment. In fact, I was advised more than once the bone density issue was a myth and I couldn't find any research on the subject.

Personally, I was confused about my diagnosis of hypogonadism because even though my testosterone levels were lower on MMT... I had a more active libido than I do now on Subs. Now I need viagra and get little satisfaction with an orgasim....even though I'm just on 1 mg which increases cravings i never had near to the extent on meth.

TBF I'm 59 yo and long term ORT so that could be good part of it. However, 2.5 yrs ago... the only thing I needed for constipation on MMT was a blended formula of fruits, juice and 51% bran daily for regularity and again my sex drive along with enjoyment was fair to good. But on subs I have to eat massive amounts [for me] of fresh fruits, salads and vegs and limit meats.... and still need docusate and senna at least 2-3 times a week. The higher the dose the worse the sides and headaches kick in at about 4mg. I won't argue your point about younger people with less ORT behind them being most likely better off on Bupe. The regulations and no cost VA care is what keeps me on subs.

 

[lorne667]

how is suboxone with tramadol, and in what order should i take them?? i also got some xanax, diphenhydramine, and weeds too...

It doesn't matter what order you take them in. Thing is, bupe will block the minor opioid effects from tramadol. Of course, you will still get some form of analgesia from the tamadol, because of it's serotogenic proerties, but if your looking for a buzz, don't mix them, as bupe blocks ALL opiate/opioid, including Tramadol's active metabolite, which is what gives the opioid effects.

 

[lorne667]

Sublingual is 35-40% from high-dose delivery systems (Suboxone/ Subutex) and up to 50% in an ethanol solution. Nasal is maybe what you're thinking of at 60%

Exactly. BUT sublingual BA can be as low as 18%, it's just that studies give various figures. I think a lot of it has to do with human fallibility, as in, humans are likely not to hold the pill long enough, or swallow too much, etc and so, in ideal circumstances, it is over 30%, but human error can yield as low as 18%, overall averaging under 30%.

(BTW, the BA is listed on the BL bupe megathread)

 

[xxsicknessxx]

could 16mg be to much for me then? I have horrible weakness, right leg swelling, I snort my pills btw. My body aches all the time could it be suboxon od?

 

[Pegasus]

^Not "OD" in the common sense, but you're sure taking enough bupe to cause significant side effects. 16mg insuffulated has to be at or very near to the ceiling dose, depending on your individual chemistry. The weakness certainly sounds like it could be a symptom of this... can't comment on the swelling however. My advice is to cut your dose back as much as possible to avoid as many side effects as possible. Being at such a high dose, you should be able to shave off a decent amount without too much trouble. Good luck, and let us know how it goes if you decide to take this route.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

I will try taking 1.5mg normally tom. see if it helps or not.. I hope it does... I don't got much left in me.