Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[SkagKush]

^ that sounds a little to easy....man, my doctor requires drug testing and counseling, but its all in the same building.....its actually quite a good program.....

 

[jamesBrown]

^ that sounds a little to easy....man, my doctor requires drug testing and counseling, but its all in the same building.....its actually quite a good program.....

except you dont get monthly take home scripts. You roudy canadian!!

 

[SkagKush]

^ ya this is true...and in my opinion, this is the biggest downfall of BMT......but MMT is far worse here....so its as good as it gets.....

 

[hazydavy84]

I just wanted to comment on the people who have to take drug tests for bupe. I have a doctor who does not drug test nor does he require counseling. I just see him once a month walk in pay my X cash get my scrip walk out takes maybe 15 minutes tops. So they are out there you just have to do a little investigating. He didnt even do a drug test for my first appointment and he allowed me to do my induction at home. I will say he is totally in it for the income though.

I had a Dr. just like that. Luckily he accepted insurance. When i first went to him he made it sound like there would be random ua's and wanted to make sure i was getting help through AA/NA and therapy. Nonetheless, I never had a single drug test in the 6 months I saw him. Walk in, shoot the shit, get a script.

Eventually I had relapsed and decided I wanted to see if I could get a script for painkillers. So I set up an appointment, went in and told him that I was having serious pain in my back. He did absolutely nothing to actually see if I was injured, I had never mentioned the pain before, no MRIs etc. He didn't even come over to the chair I was sitting in to check out my back. He just stood there and wrote out a script for 120 30mg roxi's and 90 2mg klonopin and said if I decided I needed something stronger to set up an appointment in 2 weeks. talk about a joke.

I never went back to him because a few days later, after i'd gone through both scripts. I decided I wanted to get clean again. So i switched dr's since i knew it would be too tempting to continue seeing him.

 

[TriputoryHeadicine]

I have also had serious luck with my sub doc, until the FDA figured out that no DR. in my small midwestern town was licensed to script Buprenorphine! I've been one Subutex for 14 months, and never once did I get a UA, or mandatory counseling. I've bene off the needle since last December, and I volunteered to go back to my family psych when I started treatment.

My doc never once asked me about either of these things, nor did he pay much attention when I told him. He gave me monthly scripts, until last month, when the FDA looked into the pharmacys here doling out Subutex to (I'm assuming) quite a few people (10,000 person town). I'm now enrolling in a legit outpatient program, which costs real money ($x) which I guess isn't alot compared to what other people go through; I'm just spoiled after 14 months of x a month visits and x dollar generic 8's!

BTW, I used to be on here as El Cubano Poco, so hello to ya'll again!

Good luck peeps!

P.s. Forgot to mention, I jsut found out my doc put me down as a pain patient (which I technically am) But never once mentioned addiction in my file! I was tempted to go to a real pain clinic, but being relatively sober is a pleasure, as is the many joys life has to offer ;-)

S'all for now!
Peace friends

 

[Pegasus]

Copied from an ADD thread started today... Thoughts?

please stop saying the Naloxone in Suboxone is innert or inactive.

Goggle "BupPharm" and read the power point at the top. It clearly shows Naloxone is active in Suboxone.

I also have 2 other PDF's that clearly show that a small amount of Naloxone gets through in most people, and even a small amount has an effect on your CNS for an hour or two.

So from reading that power point, if you take Buprenorphine alone (Subutex), you will be high very quickly (15 to 30 min), but if you take Suboxone sublinguly it will take a few hours to get to the max high.

Even if your argument was true that all the receptors were "full" of Buprenorphine (saturated) so no Naloxone can find a free opiate receptor, (which is not true in most cases), Naloxone will go and find TLR4 receptors, and that has an effect on your CNS.

Goggle "Naloxone TLR4" if you want to know more.

I must explain something: there are millions of opiate receptors in your brain, so when you take Suboxone, depending on dose, and frequency, a lot of receptors will have Buprenorphine on them, and a few will have Naloxone on them, for a few hours. It is not one big on/off switch in your brain, as a few people seem to think.

Some lucky people seem to get no Naloxone from Suboxone. It depends on the amount of enzymes in your liver and gut. It also depends on what you ate before taking Suboxone - if I eat a blood red grape fruit an hour before taking my Suboxone, I feel the Naloxone more.

If I take Amitriptyline 10mg the night before, and eat a blood red grapefruit for breakfast, then have my Suboxone an hour later, I massively feel the Naloxone, and my pupils dilate massively, (normally very small), I have to run to the toilet for a massive shit, I start sweating like crazy, and I get lots of pain. I get all this symptoms or an hour or two, then the Buprenorphine kicks in, and I feel great the rest of the day.

So there are many factors determining if the Naloxone gets to your brain, or is broken down before then. It is very complicated.

I hope this cleared things up for a few people.

 

[jamesBrown]

Copied from an ADD thread started today... Thoughts?

my thoughts are that this guys post didn't really clear anything up. It was slightly confusing and seemed to be missing some key info that would back up what he was trying to say. Allthough, what he was trying to say could be spot on, i dunno.

Maybe I should "Goggle" it.

I also know that i have never noticed any difference in suboxone and subutex as far as the onset of the drug, how long it lasts, and how it feels, etc...but thats just me, maybe im just special.

 

[caseface99]

I always forget how when i jump down a bupe dose the first day isn't the worst, its more like the best and every day gets worse from there.

 

[subdetox]

I'm on day 5 of my suboxone detox. I quit cold turkey off of 4-8mg a day. How loong is this seriously going to last?

 

[jamesBrown]

I always forget how when i jump down a bupe dose the first day isn't the worst, its more like the best and every day gets worse from there.

thats odd, everytime i dropped my dose, even just like 0.2-0.5mg's, i always felt better, and better, and better, until i got to that perfect dose that made me feel great everyday.

that sucks that lowering your dose makes it worse for you. im guessing your on a higher dose. i wish our doctors/medical community would realize that low doses sometimes actually do work better.

 

[SkagKush]

^ i am so much happier on 1mg than i was on 2mg.......i feel great....i have also noticed that the mental 'holding' is less on 1mg, so thats the only downside.....

 

[jamesBrown]

^ i am so much happier on 1mg than i was on 2mg.......i feel great....i have also noticed that the mental 'holding' is less on 1mg, so thats the only downside.....

yes, when i got to 0.5mg doses, i would have to dose atleast twice a day, but i loved that because each time i dosed, i got a little more euphoria and energy, etc...it was awesome. SO lots of times I would dose 2-3(maybe 4) times a day and enjoy the hell out of living life, enjoying tiny little buzzes.

 

[subox0wned]

I'm on day 5 of my suboxone detox. I quit cold turkey off of 4-8mg a day. How loong is this seriously going to last?

4-8 mg is quite a high dose to be jumping off from, I realize that it may not be possible (financially or otherwise) to continue your taper, & I assume you're not receiving your meds from a BMT clinic, because I can't fathom a professional practitioner cutting their patient off @ this dose, although I'm not sure if it would surprise me, seeing how misinformed some health care providers seem to be.

The withdrawal period varies from instance to instance, some find it somewhat tolerable in comparison to full agonist withdrawal, while for others it ends up being rather hellish. A major factor is how effectively the patient/doctor devise & execute a proper taper. One thing can be said for sure, and that is due to Bupe's lengthy half-life, the process of kicking is proportionately long. All you can do is ride it out, and find solace knowing that the suffering will all have been worth it on your path to sobriety.

To help with the primary symptoms, the typical recommendations for opiate detox will be your best bet, such as Immodium for the uncontrollable diarrhea, Valerian Root or Kava for insomnia & RLS, and possibly a benzo (i.e. Valium, Klonopin) if you can acquire them, and the former options aren't cutting it. Any benzo use should be strictly short-term, and discontinue as soon as you can get by without them, after all, there's no point in substituting one addictive substance for another. I have also used Magnesium supplements to help with any shakes/tremors, and gotten on some sort of liver cleansing vitamin complex (GNC, Vitamin Shoppe) to assist my body in detoxing rapidly. Nothing beats lots of fluids, some good old fashioned exercise, diet, fresh air, and sunshine to fend off the depression. In addition, supplements like 5-HTP increase serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter in the brain responsible for mood. Vitamin B6 can also assist as a precursor to epinephrine, serotonin, and norepinephrine, neurotransmitters that improve mood as well. Last but not least, stay positive!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Copied from an ADD thread started today... Thoughts?

It doesn't take me 15 minutes to feel buprenorphine via Suboxone.

Suboxone and Subutex are identical in effects at similar doses. Naloxone doesn't block buprenorphine's effects.

 

[*=Regulator=*]

^
Also never noticed ANY difference between plain bupe and Suboxone in onset time either intranasally or sublingually. The naloxone has NEVER had any effect on me whatsoever.

 

[catcalls]

Can people here please confirm or deny this;

In the UK, we get prescribed Subutex only I believe. This is a drug with a rather unpleasant high but people not using Subutex get rather ripped from it and in prison a single 2mg pill sells for £x-£x.

In the USA, people get scripts for Suboxone. This drug gives no artificial high, but does stop heroin withdrawal and has similar properties to Subutex, but with a 'high blocker' attached to it. This high blocker, basically works by limiting the amount of bupe that can be absorbed by the opiate receptors at any given time. This is not true for Subutex.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Can people here please confirm or deny this;

In the UK, we get prescribed Subutex only I believe. This is a drug with a rather unpleasant high but people not using Subutex get rather ripped from it and in prison a single 2mg pill sells for £x-£x.

In the USA, people get scripts for Suboxone. This drug gives no artificial high, but does stop heroin withdrawal and has similar properties to Subutex, but with a 'high blocker' attached to it. This high blocker, basically works by limiting the amount of bupe that can be absorbed by the opiate receptors at any given time. This is not true for Subutex.

This is not true. Buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity than naloxone. Suboxone and Subutex, will produce the same subjective effects at similar doses.

 

[catcalls]

Thanks for the edit, did not realise prices were taboo, since people seem to post how much their script costs, I thought I could post that info.

Anyways, I think I got mixed up, in the USA, can you confirm or deny this, the Suboxone has a limit on how much bupe gets absorbed into the system to stop people from OD'ing on it? I read this on a Wiki one time and was always curious.

It said, too many people in the past had died from Subutex, they invented Suboxone, to stop that from happening.

Also, if that is the case, then, I can see why people complain about being on Suboxone, and want to get on Subutex in the States.

 

[catcalls]

Yes, this is the wiki quote;

Suboxone contains buprenorphine as well as the opioid antagonist naloxone to deter the abuse of tablets by intravenous injection. Controlled trials in human subjects suggest that buprenorphine and naloxone at a 4:1 ratio will produce unpleasant withdrawal symptoms if taken intravenously by patients who are addicted to opioids

Basically, it states it stops people injecting the drug to get high. So, why all the USA people on here do that with Suboxone?

 

[subdetox]

I was getting it from a doctor, I didn't tell him I was stopping, I just did it. I lost my job and insurance in july and I just can't afford it anymore. My doc gave me clonodine but it only lasts for about 2 hours then I have to take more which has got me fainting when I stand up.

I have a ton of vitamins and supplements you mentioned but haven't been able to take them since a few days ago because I can't eat.