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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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Great job, C.H on the new version of this thread. This is perhaps the most valuable thread-series we've had in OD for some time now.

I just take small issue with you disagreeing with the sub doc's claims about amount of sub users who shoot. I've read his blog quite a bit in the past and he even has a BL account but was never very active.

Anyway, while we see here in OD that many of our members shoot, overall its still a very small amount of the sub-using population. I'm sure a fair amount try the IV route but as far as daily maintenance, i'd say it's still a very small amount of the sub-using population... I'd be shocked if it were over single digits.

This is, however, my speculation because I haven't seen extensive studies on sub abuse (which, regardless of your views, taking a SL pill via injection is considered). I'm not placing judgment, just using 'official' terms
 
Cane2theLeft said:
Great job, C.H on the new version of this thread. This is perhaps the most valuable thread-series we've had in OD for some time now.

I just take small issue with you disagreeing with the sub doc's claims about amount of sub users who shoot. I've read his blog quite a bit in the past and he even has a BL account but was never very active.

Anyway, while we see here in OD that many of our members shoot, overall its still a very small amount of the sub-using population. I'm sure a fair amount try the IV route but as far as daily maintenance, i'd say it's still a very small amount of the sub-using population... I'd be shocked if it were over single digits.

This is, however, my speculation because I haven't seen extensive studies on sub abuse (which, regardless of your views, taking a SL pill via injection is considered). I'm not placing judgment, just using 'official' terms
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It may not be wide-spread in the United States, but it is more common in Europe (even eastern Europe).

While you may be right, I don't think that (many) people are going to tell their doctor they are injecting their medication. It can be believable that most people on Suboxone are using the sublingual ROA now that I think about it, since Bluelight only makes up a certain percentage of the population.
 
^ It is common in Europe and India but more so in Eastern Europe in area's where heroin is not common or very expensive. Subutex has been ilegal for a while in eastern europe but a couple of countries including Georgia have recently approved Suboxone for addiction subutex is not approved.
 
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I should've clarified that I was referring to the US as I believe the sub doc was in his comments as well.

I've heard that in Europe (beyond just eastern) that is abused quite a bit in place of other opioids and I was really more so referring to people using it for maintenance purposes but there's a fine line sometimes between maintenance and abuse so its hard to distinguish.
 
just for future note, not that it really matters,

the medication used for pain is called Temgesic and not Temegesic as it is very often mis spelt on these forums, temgesic also comes in liquid 0.3mg(basically exactly like buprenex) where the tablets are only 0.2mg
 
boodha said:
just for future note, not that it really matters,

the medication used for pain is called Temgesic and not Temegesic as it is very often mis spelt on these forums, temgesic also comes in liquid 0.3mg(basically exactly like buprenex) where the tablets are only 0.2mg
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Yea, your right about it being spelled Tamgesic, allthough I have never read anyone on BL spell it otherwise.....maybe I just wasnt paying enough attention.

I also agree with Cane that IV suboxone use probably makes up less than 5% of the actual amount of people prescribed suboxone for maintanence. Most people wouldn't take the time to think out of the box and consider the fact that what there doctors are telling them about this drug(how it cant be IV'ed) maybe isn't true. And some probably simply dont care and wish to use the drug as prescribed and get on with there life "legaly". The people who are IV'ing sub can be seen as an even smaller number when you think about how for every one person on sub maintanence, there are probably around 20-30 people on methadone maintanence. My sub doctor told me that for every suboxone patient he has, he has 20-25 people on methadone.(its a methadone clinic which also prescribes suboxone)
 
boodha said:
just for future note, not that it really matters,

the medication used for pain is called Temgesic and not Temegesic as it is very often mis spelt on these forums, temgesic also comes in liquid 0.3mg(basically exactly like buprenex) where the tablets are only 0.2mg
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Thanks, you are right, I'll go ahead and make that change.

Spelling errors like that get on my nerves, so thank you for the correction!
 
Do you guys think a bupe doctor would prescribe Tramadol alongside the Suboxone? If anything causes me to relapse it is the chronic pain I suffer from, and Tramadol helps immensely, even if it is kind of addictive.
 
Ricochet2049 said:
Do you guys think a bupe doctor would prescribe Tramadol alongside the Suboxone? If anything causes me to relapse it is the chronic pain I suffer from, and Tramadol helps immensely, even if it is kind of addictive.
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I HIGHLY doubt it.

the only scenario I can even begin to picture that happening in is one where you have known the doctor for many years and have an extremely good/trusting/healthy relationship with him/her.

but for all I know there could be a law against doctors that are prescribing your your opiate addiction maintanence medication prescribing you another opiate. probably not, but you never know.
 
Tramadol isn't a true opiate though, it does have some opiate like effects, but it's still not a scheduled drug, or classified as a true opiate.
 
Ricochet2049 said:
Tramadol isn't a true opiate though, it does have some opiate like effects, but it's still not a scheduled drug, or classified as a true opiate.
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that may be, but it really has alot to do with how it is viewed by the doctor. Tramadol actually IS a scheduled substance( IV ) and consequently it is viewed much more harshly than another drug used for pain, like naproxen, or tylenol. It has alot to do with how the public views it and if it is considered good medical adivce to prescribe an opiate receptor activating drug to someone on opiate addiction maintanence.
 
Only Arkansas and Kentucky have labeled Tramadol as Schedule IV.

I don't see the problem though, while it may be addictive, it's nowhere near that of Hydrocodone/Oxycodone and the other true opiates in terms of addiction and strength.

Nothing OTC touches the pain, the vertabrae in my neck are pretty fucked up, and I have chronic migraines (tried a bunch of triptans, anti-depressants, shit like amitryptaline, depakote, etc.).

It would be in my best interest to stay on the Tramadol if it is actually helping me, I just hope the doctor will see it that way.
 
^there's really no way for us to predict what your sub doc will prescribe. Some dub docs only want to treat the addiction issues, some will be willing to treat other conditions (sometimes only psychiatric), some will have lenient Rx-ing policies and some won't.

You just need to advocate for yourself and whether with this doctor or another, push to get adequate treatment or it could have very detrimental effects on your sobriety and quality of life.
 
Ricochet2049 said:
Only Arkansas and Kentucky have labeled Tramadol as Schedule IV.

I don't see the problem though, while it may be addictive, it's nowhere near that of Hydrocodone/Oxycodone and the other true opiates in terms of addiction and strength.
Nothing OTC touches the pain, the vertabrae in my neck are pretty fucked up, and I have chronic migraines (tried a bunch of triptans, anti-depressants, shit like amitryptaline, depakote, etc.).

It would be in my best interest to stay on the Tramadol if it is actually helping me, I just hope the doctor will see it that way.
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Your having trouble viewing this from the perspective of your doctor and the general medical community. To them, addictive is addictive. They know that different drugs are more addictive than others, but if you are allready a known opiate abuser, in the process of getting treatment, it would be highly unusual for them to prescribe you an addictive drug(especially one that activates opiod receptors)... its just not a good choice. Even a tiny reminder of how good opiates feel can make someone relapse....and doctors know this.
 
You know......since it is very expensive having to go to the doctor and then fill a prescription.....

....why don't you just buy the tramadol off of the internet....you could buy in bulk and save money. I dont usually reccomend keeping things secret from your doctor but since tramadol isnt an extremely dangerous drug and has shown to work well with suboxone in many people, it might be a good idea. But, you must be aware of exactly what you are getting yourself into, and make sure you stick to medicinal doses and do your best to avoid the danger of seizures(which im hoping you allready know is a common occurence with high dose tramadol).

Once again, I think its vital that your doctor know every drug you are taking, but if you are going to take it anyway, you might want to take my above advice.
 
^if the doctor's not an idiot he'll know that bupe WAY outcompetes tramadol for opioid receptor affinity so on bupe, tramadal may cause some physical dependence due to SNRI activity but is not recreational because the opioidergic activity is effectively blocked.
 
Cane2theLeft said:
^if the doctor's not an idiot he'll know that bupe WAY outcompetes tramadol for opioid receptor affinity so on bupe, tramadal may cause some physical dependence due to SNRI activity but is not recreational because the opioidergic activity is effectively blocked.
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actually I have known many people to get euphoric effects from mixing tramadol with bupe. as long as your taking bupe in small doses(as i reccomend everyone do) the tramadol should still be able to work fine. in fact, ive read many posts on BL from several different members, stating that they took tramadol while on there usual suboxone dose and they were able to feel the effects like normal. this leads me to believe that bupe is unable to block the effects of tramadol.

I havent done much research on it myself so i dont know for sure, but i think it might be possible to take the two medications at the same time.

actually i found the link to some of those posts...

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=390275&highlight=tramadol+suboxone

read posts #12 and #13
 
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