Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

Thread version 1.0

What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:

Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intraduodenal: 9.7%

intrahepatoportal: 49%

intramuscular: 68%
"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"

intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"

intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."

intravenous: 98%-100%

oral: 10%
"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"

sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

transdermal: 15%

Other Notes:

• Bupe is CIII in the US.
• Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
• Half-life: 37 hours.
• Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
• A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
• Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
• Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose
• Bupe half-life charts- courtesy of Motts
• Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. -courtesy of thugpassion

Images:

Subutex

Suboxone

I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.
Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.

Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.

Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Suboxone Mega Thread Directory - Other links about buprenorphine in Other Drugs

Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone

Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.

If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.

If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.

*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Welcome to v6.0!

Welcome to the new Suboxone Mega Thread!

We've tried to clean up this thread so that it's the most informative it can possibly be. If you think of vital information to add to the first post, or any other frequently asked questions that would fit well in the second post, please volunteer ideas here. title your questions as "ideas for the FAQ" or "ideas for the first post" so that a moderator, like but not limited to myself, can see that you all have ideas to expand upon this thread.

The idea behind making this more informational, is so that we don't have to merge all your Suboxone/buprenorphine questions into here. In fact, we're more likely than not going to quote the mega thread (if you post a question that has been answered in the FAQ) and then close the thread, so as to keep the mega thread open for more advanced discussions, and for people to expand upon the FAQ's if the answer is not fully explanatory or easily comprehended.

This way, we can have a more on topic, more productive, less repetitive mega thread for everyone.

 

[Suboxone]

I attempted to talk to my bupe doc about switching from suboxone to generic subutex. He told me, like a douche, that I should "talk to my primary care doctor. he's obviously comfortable with giving me abusable medications." and also added, "that's how you got where you are now, are you not?"

He is 100% certain that suboxone is impossible to abuse, both snorted and IV. Even after showing him hundreds of printouts of websites showing the opposite, fda studies, etc. showing him that I can't afford to continue paying for a $200 suboxone script and an additional $200 on "non-addictive" anxiety/depression meds that don't help with the anxiety or depression that the suboxone has been causing, on top of the bottle of ibuprofen i go through every few days for the headaches. He also suggested that i "doctor shop" until i find a doctor that will give me what i want.

I find it amazing that a doctor will flat out tell a patient to go find another doctor that will allow said patient to go get high...all with absolutely no care for the patient's life or wellbeing. Bupe doctors are such a fucking joke.


Now what? I'm nearing my limit. Do i start looking for a methadone clinic? Look for another doctor (and, subsequently, a clinic where i can attend groups and see a psychologist)?

I am so confused and frustrated. Moreso with his response than anything. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pegasus]

^It's a shitty response, for sure. It is going to be difficult to convince many doctors to give Subutex because they believe in the naloxone theory of Suboxone, but I imagine that you should be able to convince a doctor that you have stabilized on Suboxone, and thus aren't at risk for injecting your maintenance meds. I think this is going to have to be the approach you use. You can say that you know it's easier to abuse them, but you have moved on from abusing your meds and are focused on getting healthy, but cannot continue to afford the outrageous Suboxone prices. Describe it like you are progressing in your treatment by doing this switch, and I think many doctors will be more eager to help you.

Be sure to report back with any updates. Good luck!

 

[DangerChamber]

Umm yeah anyways as i was saying

I took 2mg sublingual about 8:00 in the morning. It's almost 4:00 on the east coast and I still feel it pretty strong. Now, when I'm actually doing something, I'm as alert and talkative as ever, actually maybe even moreso (just got done with class). But as soon as I stop actually doing activity i get noddy as fuck. AND i like that. I just wish it had maybe a little more euphoria to go along with it and it'd be the best shit in the world

 

[Pegasus]

^Yes, many people describe that exactly (that it's noddy, but not too euphoric). Many of us on here ended up lowering our dose to a degree that didn't make us nod, which ended up providing better euphoria (in our opinion)... Maybe try 1mg and see if you can enjoy it a little more?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I attempted to talk to my bupe doc about switching from suboxone to generic subutex. He told me, like a douche, that I should "talk to my primary care doctor. he's obviously comfortable with giving me abusable medications." and also added, "that's how you got where you are now, are you not?"

He is 100% certain that suboxone is impossible to abuse, both snorted and IV. Even after showing him hundreds of printouts of websites showing the opposite, fda studies, etc. showing him that I can't afford to continue paying for a $200 suboxone script and an additional $200 on "non-addictive" anxiety/depression meds that don't help with the anxiety or depression that the suboxone has been causing, on top of the bottle of ibuprofen i go through every few days for the headaches. He also suggested that i "doctor shop" until i find a doctor that will give me what i want.

I find it amazing that a doctor will flat out tell a patient to go find another doctor that will allow said patient to go get high...all with absolutely no care for the patient's life or wellbeing. Bupe doctors are such a fucking joke.


Now what? I'm nearing my limit. Do i start looking for a methadone clinic? Look for another doctor (and, subsequently, a clinic where i can attend groups and see a psychologist)?

I am so confused and frustrated. Moreso with his response than anything. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Get a list of Suboxone doctors in your area, call every single one. Ask if they are willing to prescribe generic subutex - be very honest about the fact you don't have enough money to keep paying the price for brand name Suboxone.

I am sorry your doctor is a moron, mine is one too. Alas, Suboxone can *easily* be IV'd, just like Subutex. The doctors are truly morons when it comes to the idea of what naloxone is doing in Suboxone.

Umm yeah anyways as i was saying

I took 2mg sublingual about 8:00 in the morning. It's almost 4:00 on the east coast and I still feel it pretty strong. Now, when I'm actually doing something, I'm as alert and talkative as ever, actually maybe even moreso (just got done with class). But as soon as I stop actually doing activity i get noddy as fuck. AND i like that. I just wish it had maybe a little more euphoria to go along with it and it'd be the best shit in the world

Try taking less. Maybe you'd get *slightly* less noddy and more euphoric.

^Yes, many people describe that exactly (that it's noddy, but not too euphoric). Many of us on here ended up lowering our dose to a degree that didn't make us nod, which ended up providing better euphoria (in our opinion)... Maybe try 1mg and see if you can enjoy it a little more?

Spot on advice! I can see BW has beat me to the punch line on this one.

 

[DangerChamber]

Yeah, that and I had taken 7.5mg of oxy like 10 hours before. I figure it wouldn't be too big of a deal. Thx. bl

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

i think ive got my self addicted to the needle in one day lol.. ive shot up my bupe 5 times today as opposed to my normal snorting .5-1mg 4x a day.. and if IVing gets better BA why do i feel the need to dose more.. i even feel i might do it once more tonight.. and ive only got a few veins im comfortable with.. and ive used both crooks of my elbow twice and a big vein on my bicep.. maybe i should boot more at a time.. i was doing .5mg.. maybe i should have been doing 1mg shots but the BA seems to make .5mg snorted equal to 1mg IVed. so why would i need more with this ROA? and i am getting a *slight* rush after the injections.

Edit: i think ill just IV 1mg 4x a day.. and hold my self to it and space them apart by 6hrs.. and slowly lower the dose to .5mg .. answered my own question.

 

[dopiate]

i think ive got my self addicted to the needle in one day lol.. ive shot up my bupe 5 times today as opposed to my normal snorting .5-1mg 4x a day.. and if IVing gets better BA why do i feel the need to dose more.. i even feel i might do it once more tonight.. and ive only got a few veins im comfortable with.. and ive used both crooks of my elbow twice and a big vein on my bicep.. maybe i should boot more at a time.. i was doing .5mg.. maybe i should have been doing 1mg shots but the BA seems to make .5mg snorted equal to 1mg IVed. so why would i need more with this ROA? and i am getting a *slight* rush after the injections.

Edit: i think ill just IV 1mg 4x a day.. and hold my self to it and space them apart by 6hrs.. and slowly lower the dose to .5mg .. answered my own question.

Thinking you need more is most likely a clue that you want to inject more than you need more bupe.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

i think ive got my self addicted to the needle in one day lol.. ive shot up my bupe 5 times today as opposed to my normal snorting .5-1mg 4x a day.. and if IVing gets better BA why do i feel the need to dose more.. i even feel i might do it once more tonight.. and ive only got a few veins im comfortable with.. and ive used both crooks of my elbow twice and a big vein on my bicep.. maybe i should boot more at a time.. i was doing .5mg.. maybe i should have been doing 1mg shots but the BA seems to make .5mg snorted equal to 1mg IVed. so why would i need more with this ROA? and i am getting a *slight* rush after the injections.

Edit: i think ill just IV 1mg 4x a day.. and hold my self to it and space them apart by 6hrs.. and slowly lower the dose to .5mg .. answered my own question.

Buprenorphine has a much shorter duration when injected. You're introducing the dose to your body all at once, it's not a slow/gradual introduction of drug into the system.

So, the idea behind IVing is that you can use 1/3 to even less of a sublingual dose. I personally inject 0.1mg per dose. I would use 20x that for a sublingual dose. So, as long as I inject 20 times per day or less (dear god that's so many times, I only do it maybe 5 to 8 times per day max) it's the equivalent of how much I'd already be going through. As long as I do it roughly 6 times per day, the BA is also equipotent.

If you use 2mg per day snorted in four 0.5mg doses, then try 0.25mg per shot. That way if you do it 4-6 times per day, you're still only going through 1 to 1.5mg.

Hope this helped.

 

[Eight0Eight]

and i am getting a *slight* rush after the injections.

Placebo.


Seriously, Captain Heroin is the ONLY opiate-dependant person I have EVER known of that claims to actually get high off of IV subutex.

Yeah, if your a n00b it will get you wasted, otherwise its pretty much all in your head.

It does make your subutex go further - but you will find it more difficul towards the end of your taper, as (CH mentioned) it doesn't last as long - so you will be spending more and more of your day hankering for the next dose.

Thats the big mstake I made last time I weaned of subutex. If I had taken it properly (under the tounge) I honestly think it would have been a hell of a lot easier..

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Placebo.


Seriously, Captain Heroin is the ONLY opiate-dependant person I have EVER known of that claims to actually get high off of IV subutex.

Yeah, if your a n00b it will get you wasted, otherwise its pretty much all in your head.

It does make your subutex go further - but you will find it more difficul towards the end of your taper, as (CH mentioned) it doesn't last as long - so you will be spending more and more of your day hankering for the next dose.

Thats the big mstake I made last time I weaned of subutex. If I had taken it properly (under the tounge) I honestly think it would have been a hell of a lot easier..

so you dont think if i get down to a low dosage and my tolerance drops along with it (im not talking about my tolerance dropping now it'd be 2 quick) in the future i wont get high off the dose if my tolerance down to that level?

EDIT: or if i stop taking the subs for a few days and im in w/d feining subs and i take a .5mg IV dose i wont feel "high" or "relief" from the dose?

 

[Oxymorphone]

I attempted to talk to my bupe doc about switching from suboxone to generic subutex. He told me, like a douche, that I should "talk to my primary care doctor. he's obviously comfortable with giving me abusable medications." and also added, "that's how you got where you are now, are you not?"

He is 100% certain that suboxone is impossible to abuse, both snorted and IV. Even after showing him hundreds of printouts of websites showing the opposite, fda studies, etc. showing him that I can't afford to continue paying for a $200 suboxone script and an additional $200 on "non-addictive" anxiety/depression meds that don't help with the anxiety or depression that the suboxone has been causing, on top of the bottle of ibuprofen i go through every few days for the headaches. He also suggested that i "doctor shop" until i find a doctor that will give me what i want.

I find it amazing that a doctor will flat out tell a patient to go find another doctor that will allow said patient to go get high...all with absolutely no care for the patient's life or wellbeing. Bupe doctors are such a fucking joke.


Now what? I'm nearing my limit. Do i start looking for a methadone clinic? Look for another doctor (and, subsequently, a clinic where i can attend groups and see a psychologist)?

I am so confused and frustrated. Moreso with his response than anything. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Bupe doctor's are retarded cunts and the scum of the medical community, I have no idea how they got through med school. I posted my horror story in the last megathread right before it got closed.

[my original post]

Suboxone doctors are hacks for the most part and have the easiest job in the world that pays a ton. All they have to do is look at someone and fill out a sheet seeing if they are in withdrawal then giving them suboxone in an office and checking in on them making sure they don't get suck, then subsequently having patients come back and piss in a cup which the nurse handles while they see patients for 5 minutes and write them a script for more suboxone. What the fuck, why the hell do you need medical school to do that?

The reason i started tapering on my own was because I got deprived suboxone while being in the ER for 3 days and went into withdrawal then my suboxone doctor was an asshole over the phone saying he wouldn't continue to prescribe suboxone to me unless I went to a 30 day+ rehab. I asked him what good he was if he wasn't going to prescribe me suboxone either way, told him I would get a new doctor and hung up. Then I tried tapering on my own since I was afraid I wouldn't get a new bupe doctor in time and ended up relapsing. what a fucking irresponsible asshole. I found a new bupe doc but I was already using again at that point so it didn't help.

[reply and account of another horrible bupe doc experience]

That's pretty much my same story. My doc was a fucking cunt. He treated me like I owed him shit. I made him rich, what a prick. I know it's so hard to talk for literally less than 5 minutes, and usually about football..FUCK! OMFG! OH NOEWWS! I always had a decent stash of subs saved up just incase i had to do an emergency taper/detox, and the doctor wouldn't help...like if you were in the hospital for trying to kill yourself with heroin. (I dunno, just an example)..and still, WHY THE FUCK should they NOT help you then of ALL times? Seems like if they were really your doctor, they'd not only be talking to ER/ICU, but possibly see you since it was a matter of life and death. Whatever, I'm not going to let this shit get to me again...Comes with the territory of overly presumptious and self rightious cunts of being "suboxone doctors"...lol, more like a shrink.

[my response continued]

The most fucked up part was that the emergency room I was being held in is part of the same hospital the buprenorphine program and my bupe doctor at the time are part of. The ER staff was pure shit and I wasn't there for any reason related to opiate or other illicit drugs (being drunk in public was the main reason, not that i was near sick or dying). I immediately notified them I was on suboxone maintenance and needed to take my next dose when they informed me the ER wasn't licensed to prescribe it. WHAT THE FUCK, this is a major hospital and ER in Manhattan. I told them to contact the bupe program and my doctor in the next building so I could get my meds. They kept making promises and of course I never got shit, was barely allowed to make phone calls, then when I was in pretty bad WD feeling like shit they decided to transfer me to a psych hospital (for no good reason other than the new doctor who saw me for 5 minutes was 'concerned' about my mental state- I was in fucking WD after the ER was holding me there just making me worse, ugh) where I again didn't get bupe until the next day at the other hospital.

So my ex-bupe doctor calls me the next day at the other hospital saying he heard about the incident and was very concerned. I asked him why he didn't walk downstairs to check on his patient and give me some suboxone and he blamed it on me for not calling his emergency pager number. The guy knew I was there, I didn't have access to my possessions let alone his card with the number, and the staff was awful and would barely let me make two phone calls. Then he has the nerve to tell me he would refuse to continue to provide bupe unless I went into a 30 day rehab. If he was so damn concerned why didn't he do shit while I was in the ER WDing at the same damn hospital he works at? He was also being a controlling prick about me signing a release form for him at the psych hospital and before I could say I would sign it he goes on saying my permission is just a professional courtesy and he can go behind my back and get it. I made sure he never did, the next time he called saying the same rehab shit which he was talking to my psychiatrist about, with no legal right to, and tried to tell me my psychiatrist would stop treating me too (which wasn't true but I got rid of them both anyway). I politely told him to fuck off, hung up, and terminated all communications rights he had.

The community of bupe doctors is pretty small, are there some sites where you can rate doctors and write comments about them? This really had my blood boiling at the time and now that I think about the experience again makes me extremely angry. I wonder if it is malpractice lawsuit worthy since it directly led to my relapse and aside from that was wrong on many levels and so many people screwed up leading me to get worse the course of my stay.

After the forced WD from being held in the ER I finally got my first suboxone dose three and a half days later after also skipping my dose the day I got sent to the ER and I GOT HIGH AS A KITE. Tasting the high again combined with not wanting to rely on bupe, awful doctors and hospital staff after that experience led me to start tapering once I was out. When I was at 2mg and started to feel a little bit of the high again it was over and I went out and found heroin.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

^ WoW

 

[Eight0Eight]

so you dont think if i get down to a low dosage and my tolerance drops along with it (im not talking about my tolerance dropping now it'd be 2 quick) in the future i wont get high off the dose if my tolerance down to that level?

EDIT: or if i stop taking the subs for a few days and im in w/d feining subs and i take a .5mg IV dose i wont feel "high" or "relief" from the dose?

No, I don't.

I got all the way down to 0.2mg/day - and even then, a 2mg shot wouldn't give me any sort of rush.

Yeah, the switch from sick->not sick is nice, but its not a high or a rush.

 

[passtheflask]

Somewhat urgent question: I see the above faq about shooting through a bupe dose. I just wanted to ask a more specific question. I took 2mg of bupe about 6 hours ago and 2mg yesterday. My normal oxy dose is about 80mg. I just ran into some oxy and I want to take it tonight. I've "shot through" bupe before after about 12 hours with a normal dose. My question is that with my relatively low bupe dose and the fact I've only taken it two days in a row, can I expect to shoot through the bupe with my regular oxy dose right now or should I bump it to 100?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Placebo.


Seriously, Captain Heroin is the ONLY opiate-dependant person I have EVER known of that claims to actually get high off of IV subutex.

Yeah, if your a n00b it will get you wasted, otherwise its pretty much all in your head.

It does make your subutex go further - but you will find it more difficul towards the end of your taper, as (CH mentioned) it doesn't last as long - so you will be spending more and more of your day hankering for the next dose.

Thats the big mstake I made last time I weaned of subutex. If I had taken it properly (under the tounge) I honestly think it would have been a hell of a lot easier..

Honestly there is a way to slowly reduce your dose so you can continuously IV throughout the day. I don't go through but 300-700 mcg per day, and I plan to have that number in half soon.

Given I only had a 11 and a half month run in with dope before I cashed in my chips for Suboxone, and I didn't abuse other opiates before then. So really I consider myself lucky that my mu-opioid receptors down-regulated after cessating dope.

Bupe doctor's are retarded cunts and the scum of the medical community, I have no idea how they got through med school. I posted my horror story in the last megathread right before it got closed.

Sorry man, I had to close v.5.0, we close threas after 1,000 replies, and also I needed to create the new mega thread for the new mega thread's sake so as to have a nice welcome & inclusion to help add basic FAQ's to the intro.

You are completely welcome to re-post anything from v5.0 you want to bring up again and I am glad you re-posted your story! Continuing the advanced discussion is 100% cool IMO, that's what this is all about.

No, I don't.

I got all the way down to 0.2mg/day - and even then, a 2mg shot wouldn't give me any sort of rush.

Yeah, the switch from sick->not sick is nice, but its not a high or a rush.

I dunno man, I always get a rush and a high. The rush isn't immediate mind you, you do your shot, then in like 2-5 minutes you're rushing. It's kind of weird that it takes a while, it just does. But it works fantastically when I do it, even at 100mcg. That would be the equivalent of 30 units of Buprenex (=0.3mL), which is a relatively very little/small buprenorphine dose.

I know you got down to 0.2mg/day, but I think the ability to feel the rush/high depends on several things, I have met other people (but they truly are opiate noobs) who get rushes and highs off of it, and who like it *better* than the one time they tried heroin.

Somewhat urgent question: I see the above faq about shooting through a bupe dose. I just wanted to ask a more specific question. I took 2mg of bupe about 6 hours ago and 2mg yesterday. My normal oxy dose is about 80mg. I just ran into some oxy and I want to take it tonight. I've "shot through" bupe before after about 12 hours with a normal dose. My question is that with my relatively low bupe dose and the fact I've only taken it two days in a row, can I expect to shoot through the bupe with my regular oxy dose right now or should I bump it to 100?

Cool, an expansion upon an FAQ question!

You can probably shoot through it. 2mg is a relatively low dose, and I could get past that with my normal H dose after a 12 hour wait.

I would say you are good to go! Enjoy the OC!