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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

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Explain me this? (bupe)

Hello fellow Bluelighters,
edit: realizing that I am high as a kite, I decided to move irelevant parts to NSFW tags to avoid wall of text. It's SWF as far as OD topics go. Sorry for writing a tome when I only intend to ask a simple question. Getting blasted does this to me. Apologies

I had this weird experience last night and some things that happened just plain confused me. Hope some of you are willing to shed some light on what I had experienced, as it is contrary to everything I've read. Also I hope and believe that this topic is not self serving because many of us who are into opiates run into similar situations.

Note #1 (for mods):Please move/merge/close this if I posted in wrong forum or shouldn't have started a thread about it.

Note #2:If you want to skip the wall of the text, just go to the actual question at the bottom of post

note #3:I am pretty smashed at the moment so forgive me if I go into too much detail or lose the track, I can already tell that I am gonna write too much so please forgive me and just scroll to the bottom to get to the actual question as mentioned in note #2. I've been nodding off and I'm trying to coherently write this for at least hour and a half :|

Some Background:

I am an old skool opiate addict and polydrug abuser for more then half of my life.
NSFW:

I've not been addicted whole time, it all started innocent like with most of us (who do not have prescribed opiates for health issues). I've been getting clean and relapsing so many times I lost count. For long periods of time I had luxury of access to free _ultra high_ grade H, courtesy of friend I grew up with, who is now serving the sentence for the same thing.

Smoke some weed here and there, eat an mdma/blotter/speed/cocaine/microdot (digression: does anyone remembers those? I used to love microdots and now I can't stand anything that isn't opiate or weed) on a techno party, then enjoy "afterparty" aka "chillout" with selected friends (and especially girls we picked up at the party) at someone's home (very often mine place, or my best friends').

There we would "ease the comedown", mostly using marijuana/hash and of course Heroin. Benzos were also used, but I was avoiding them like a plague because of bad reactions to valium and alikes (it would actually make me anxious instead of calming me down, not just when using it for comedown, but generally it was like me + benzo = anxiety, RLS, awfull feeling in my throat, bad tase in my mouth etc.

"Luckily" H was always there for me. And I eventually turned into ful blown opiate addict.
Of course this changed over time, even though I resisted benzodiazepines for most of my junkie life - even when kicking a large H habit. Although in the recent year or two I've tried to combat withdrawals with benzos + weed + codeine since that was all I had access to (started with valium, bromazepam then graduated to kpin), successfuly overcame initial adverse reactions and after couple of days they begun to work and really helped me calm down. Now I have healthy benzo addiction on top of my other polydrug abuse problems. (Nothing severe, but daily low dose of valium (10mg tops) + clonopin(1/2 mgs usual single dose)

I achieved mid to long term abstinence couple of times during my junkie career (twice almost 2 years not being addicted). Never had completely straight period for more then 3 months though, as I've been always chipping - for some periods as stretched out as once per 2 months. (Again, talking only about opiates here. Once I got truly addicted to opiates even thinking about upppers makes me horrified, unless of course I had something for comedown. And by something I mean strong mu agonist. Usually heroin, but depending on luck and location i resorted to variety of opioids ranging from codeine to fentanyl.

My abstinence periods usually involved getting into chipping at some point after initial abstaining from use. (Note: this refers only to opioids, I've used to do everything else I could get my hands on, but last 6-7 years I mostly only smoke marijuana beside taking opiates as I cannot stand uppers anymore, they trigger insta-wd feeling for me)

I am currently on bupe maintenance, prescribed 2 x 8mg day, I am trying to conserve some by snorting or dissolving it in water + filtering, adding just a tiny drop of ethanol then squirting it up my nose and laying with my head upside down for couple of minutes.

I use 4 - 6mg of bupe per day. Usually 4 though, but often I will take late night repeté which results in total of 6mg. I rarely go higher. This ROA has better results for me then sublingual adminstration of whole 8mg pill.

I find the second method to give me much greater effect, if done properly I can catch a buzz which I would _almost_ compare to iving about the same dose.
NSFW:
It's still only a bupe buzz, very subtle but still present. It's enough to increase that single dose to say 4mg and get a fine buzz going for hours. With puff of weed on top of that and daily regimen of benzos I get pretty decent mini-high which can last for hours.

Note that I split my dose of sub into 2 (or 3 if i'm gonna use 6mg) and due to intranasal ROA I beleive that I've begun to metabolise sub quite efficiently. Couple months ago I had a FAT shot of heroin 7 hours after my 2mg bupe dose and got BLASTED. Granted I took the dose that would normaly make me OD but it was a success - I got high, One time turned into binge, 10 grams later and hefty amount of methadone later it was time to switch back to sub. It took me about 72 hours to re-induce subutex into my system and about 4-5 days to begin feeling perfectly normal again.

Heh, I did it again, I nodded and rambled and nodded while trying to write this post and after few hours I've saw that I indeed wrote the wall of text.

TIme to get to the...

Question:


T+0: snorted 2mg of subutex (note subutex, not orange hell)

T+6h: snorted 0.20 g of dope, friend did 0.10 and got floored. I got only mild sensation, some sweating, maybe a tad more talkative, but no buzz whatsoever

T+12h 30mins: I prepare a shot dissolving approx 0.45g of same stuff, I proceed to inject, when I am 3/4 done with the shot, needle gets clogged due to too much blood and I end squirting the rest up my butt (that was the last needle I had)

I definitely expereience (diminshed) heroin rush and I happily light the cigarrete waiting for the ride and enjoying my mini rush.

5 minutes later, the high is almost gone. My eyes are pinned (And they definitely wouldn't be after 13 hours of no bupe) but I feel mostly straight with only a small opiate warmth in the stomach and content feeling.

T+13h: 12mg valium, 1/2 mg of kpin, still feel mosty sober. Not even sleepy even tho it's past bedtime

T+15h: Unsatisfied with the results I proceed to snort 6mg of bupe, take another mg of kpin and smoke a _very_ small bowl.

15ish min later I finally get nice warmth and definite opiate buzz

I begin nodding and enjoying my opiate bliss like usual.

....................

Now can someone tell me wtf is going on?

I know that I, if very subtle, succesfully intoxicated myself with full agonist.
I took sub about hour and a half later. I was fully aware that it's probably gonna precipitate the withdrawals, at least for hour or two until things get right.

But instead I get the insanely good synergy. I am content, well stoned and I nodded off at least 15 times whilst typing this thread.

Can someone explain me why there were no precip. w/ds? How it is that I can combine these two drugs like this? (not counting benzos and weed, they go well with everything)

Any input is appreciated.

Sorry for the wall of text, I'm like that when I get blasted
 
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Wow that was fast. I also think that merge is appropriate but could you postpone it for another 30 mins or so.

I really wish more people to comment on this. Then merge it when we get few more reponses.

On the other hand, no need to rush, If you feel it has to go to BUPE megathread right away then please move it there.

Thanks for feedback. If this is luck, I want more of it. I am profoundly confused with whole experience

regards

Edit: Forget what I said, I totally forgot how the moving threads mechanics function. Everything is fine and dandy. thanks a bunch

Stay safe
 
the reason it gets merged in here is to save clutter and this is where all the bupe posts are managed. patience is a virtue:)
 
Yeah I eventually wanted it in the mega thread, just forgot that it will show as "moved" on the main page for a while until it's pushed down, and that's exactly what I wanted.

It's all good and I am drooling idiot atm so please forgive me.

:D
 
kasad said:
Hello fellow Bluelighters,


Question:


T+0: snorted 2mg of subutex (note subutex, not orange hell)

T+6h: snorted 0.20 g of dope, friend did 0.10 and got floored. I got only mild sensation, some sweating, maybe a tad more talkative, but no buzz whatsoever

T+12h 30mins: I prepare a shot dissolving approx 0.45g of same stuff, I proceed to inject, when I am 3/4 done with the shot, needle gets clogged due to too much blood and I end squirting the rest up my butt (that was the last needle I had)

I definitely expereience (diminshed) heroin rush and I happily light the cigarrete waiting for the ride and enjoying my mini rush.

5 minutes later, the high is almost gone. My eyes are pinned (And they definitely wouldn't be after 13 hours of no bupe) but I feel mostly straight with only a small opiate warmth in the stomach and content feeling.

T+13h: 12mg valium, 1/2 mg of kpin, still feel mosty sober. Not even sleepy even tho it's past bedtime

T+15h: Unsatisfied with the results I proceed to snort 6mg of bupe, take another mg of kpin and smoke a _very_ small bowl.

15ish min later I finally get nice warmth and definite opiate buzz

I begin nodding and enjoying my opiate bliss like usual.

....................

Now can someone tell me wtf is going on?
Click to expand...


Perhaps your habit is small enough that the mostly blocked heroin and partial agonism of the buprenorphine (plus benzos and marijuana) were enough to make you feel kindof high?

If you don't have a habit more sincere than the buprenorphine dose used, experience has shown that it won't precipitate withdrawal, even if taken at times or in ways that it could/should make someone with a more significant habit very, very sick.

That said, people on this forum have reported fluke instances where non-dependant individuals have experienced precipitated withdrawal, so take it with a grain of salt.

Do you regularly use .65 grams of dope in a day? If you weren't trying to 'overpower' the bup how much smack do you need?\

EDIT-- I didn't read the NSFW tags, so if you've explained away these possibilities with information about your habit in there, my bad.
More editing-- If you take ~4-6mg daily as a part of the maintenance program, should we presume that at "T-minus-24hours" you took around 6mg, and at "T - 48" aswell? The longer my use of buprenorphine the harder it is to shoot through, especially if you take it every 24 hours (or more frequently). That stuff hangs with you, so if this is just one day out of your maintenance schedule, I'd expect needing a bucketload of dope to get anywhere.
 
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Tchort said:
It is ridiculous to worry about getting off of a maintenance opioid before you have even started the program. One step at a time. People should not worry about how 'hard' it is to get off of Buprenorphine or Methadone; because no opioid is easier or harder to get off of than any other. They are all hard to stop using, with different withdrawal syndromes depending on things life half-life, methods of action, etc.

It has been proven that patients who stay on maintenance with Buprenorphine or Methadone longer do better in the long run than those who stay on MMT or BMT for shorter amounts of time.

It was learned early on with Methadone maintenance and then reinforced with Buprenorphine maintenance that the dose has to be high enough (not this 'use low doses only' which lead to early Methadone programs looking like failures) and the treatment has to last long enough for the patient.

The correct amount of time on maintenance is the time it takes for the patient to stabilize their comfort on the substance, stabilize their social and work life/monetary situation, and to get to the point where they feel ready to detox.

And some people need to be on Opiate Replacement Therapy maintenance for years, or for the rest of their life. There is no correct or set time frame that everyone should be on it. It goes against the evidence to say that a shorter stint on Bupe maintenance is better than being on it longer, because the evidence in terms of longterm abstinence and social integration shows the opposite is true.
Click to expand...

Yes, u r right of course. Your knowledge base is much larger than most people's here and I most often take your advice.

But I think people often think that bupe is less addictive than other opiates since its a maintenance medicine. Understanding that a strong addiction will form after being on bupe for years/months is important.I just don't think people understand really to what extent bupe is addictive. That's really what I wanted to say. I know the whole opoioid drug class is addictive, my point was just that some people think bupe is less additive just cuz its a replacement therapy for other opioids. You know that they are all addictive, but some people don't know the extent and I want them to really understand that just cuz they get on bupe doesn't mean their fight for sobriety is done in any way. Bupe just makes the fight easier. Often a lot easier, but then there still needs to be a plan to eventually start living w/o opiates for those that don't need them for pain.

It's has been my life saver, just like many others', but the struggle to stop the bupe itself wasn't an easy one to say the least.

Bupe, also just like any other opioid chances the person, their brain chemistry. Well, obviously and that might be a problem for some.

I'm of the opinion that people should know as much as possible about even a bupe maintenance program before they start it. I believe they should give it some consideration that if they were to stop the meds at some point their chance of relapse will drastically increase. They will form an addiction to bupe just as strong as they had using illegal drugs.

The plus sides to being on bupe as opposed to the original addiction causing drug are countless, especially if that drug was illegal. There is enough info about it on here that I won't get into that.

I never meant for my post to be a deterrent from bupe maintenance/detox. I don't know where I'd be today if it wasn't for it, but I just think people don't know enough about it before hand and they should. They should plan for the period of time when they actually stop the meds.
 
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ashevillechic said:
BTW has anyone else heard of anyone being on as much as I'm prescribed? = 64mgs a day? Taken as Two of the 8mgs under tongue 4 times a day...????
Click to expand...

No... I think 32mg is the ceiling dose so I've never heard of ANYONE prescribed more then that... I think you're wasting money by taking anything above 32mg a day... You're doctor should know the ceiling of Bupe... that's weird...
 
Does anyone get grouchy/bitchy when it's starting to be time to take their dose?

I take a very low dose, around 0.5mg a day, and I split it into 2 low doses which I take every 10-14 hours.

Anytime I had done this between relapses and for the first few weeks it was different than now. When I started to feel like I needed to take more sub, I would get unmotivated and depressed. Now I get angry and just start thinking negatively. I guess I get unmotivated still, but it's more because I'm angry and annoyed that I have to be doing whatever I'm doing.

Any reason for these changes or anyone else notice this when they start needing more? It's just weird that I've gone from sad to mad.
 
Carl Landrover said:
Does anyone get grouchy/bitchy when it's starting to be time to take their dose?

I take a very low dose, around 0.5mg a day, and I split it into 2 low doses which I take every 10-14 hours.

Anytime I had done this between relapses and for the first few weeks it was different than now. When I started to feel like I needed to take more sub, I would get unmotivated and depressed. Now I get angry and just start thinking negatively. I guess I get unmotivated still, but it's more because I'm angry and annoyed that I have to be doing whatever I'm doing.

Any reason for these changes or anyone else notice this when they start needing more? It's just weird that I've gone from sad to mad.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's the same feeling you get but I notice that right after I take my sub for about an hour I feel tired and unmotivated (not angry) but after that I get a boost of energy for almost the rest of the day... when I first started taking it my doctor had me on 20mg and that was making me so lethargic that it was hard to stay awake after taking it...

So against his advice I lowered my dose from 20mg to 8mg and it made a WORLD of difference.. now I just get that tired feeling (but not nearly as bad) for about an hour and then I'm good.... But It doesn't make me angry at all..

And I doubt this was helpful to you really so I'm sorry but I was just putting in my 2 cents...
 
^
I used to get the same thing when I was first prescribed it a few years ago. It would make me so tired that I would need to lay down in the middle of the day. Then I lowered down to 4mg then down to 2mg and stayed there for a long time.

I still needed 8-10 hours of sleep a night while on 2mg a day, but the day always went smooth and I slept soundly every night.


I don't need any excessive sleep now, it just bugs me how negative I get when it starts getting around the 11 hr mark.
 
Carl Landrover said:
^
I used to get the same thing when I was first prescribed it a few years ago. It would make me so tired that I would need to lay down in the middle of the day. Then I lowered down to 4mg then down to 2mg and stayed there for a long time.

I still needed 8-10 hours of sleep a night while on 2mg a day, but the day always went smooth and I slept soundly every night.


I don't need any excessive sleep now, it just bugs me how negative I get when it starts getting around the 11 hr mark.
Click to expand...

Wow... I only get about 6 to 7 hours of sleep at night, if I'm lucky, so I wonder if I could somehow get 9 to 10 hours of sleep it would help me out even more... because when I first get up and take my dose I get tired to where it effects my driving badly... I found some stuff made by Advocare called "Spark" that helps give me a little boost but I still find myself swerving a bit on the way to work... but once I get there and I am about 1 hour into my dose I am good to go... Does more or less sleep effect the way Bupe works??
 
ingannilo said:
Perhaps your habit is small enough that the mostly blocked heroin and partial agonism of the buprenorphine (plus benzos and marijuana) were enough to make you feel kindof high?
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm contemplating that, but it felt like normal nod after all i've ingested.
ingannilo said:
If you don't have a habit more sincere than the buprenorphine dose used, experience has shown that it won't precipitate withdrawal, even if taken at times or in ways that it could/should make someone with a more significant habit very, very sick.
Click to expand...
I used to have decent habit, could eat 2 100mcg/h patches at once and nod like crazy but not OD, but that was loong time ago
ingannilo said:
That said, people on this forum have reported fluke instances where non-dependant individuals have experienced precipitated withdrawal, so take it with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I kind of expected 1-2 hours of precip wds, but I was so dissapointed with not getting high (because I was able to shoot trough bupe earlier, though H in the question was top notch quality gear) that I decided to take bupe no matter what. I did have somewhat of negative feeling in my back for maybe 30 minutes, but after that subsided I was plain nodding.
ingannilo said:
Do you regularly use .65 grams of dope in a day? If you weren't trying to 'overpower' the bup how much smack do you need?\
Click to expand...
I don't use dope regularly anymore so it's hard to answer, last time I did before this, 5 grams lasted me 4 days. (top quality gear, best you can find, but I was also shooting trough bupe.
ingannilo said:
EDIT-- I didn't read the NSFW tags, so if you've explained away these possibilities with information about your habit in there, my bad.
More editing-- If you take ~4-6mg daily as a part of the maintenance program, should we presume that at "T-minus-24hours" you took around 6mg, and at "T - 48" aswell? The longer my use of buprenorphine the harder it is to shoot through, especially if you take it every 24 hours (or more frequently). That stuff hangs with you, so if this is just one day out of your maintenance schedule, I'd expect needing a bucketload of dope to get anywhere.
Click to expand...

Yeah it might be it. Maybe it's potency issue, last time when I had a binge (~4-5 months ago) I had top quality gear, whereas I am not sure about this batch, though my friend got floored, but he doesn't have high tolerance.

For previous shooting-trough-bupe experience the gear was really and I mean really top notch.


In conclusion, I am more confused about bupe not precipitating WD then not getting desired effect (I mean I had kind of diminished rush). I suppose bupe wasn't fully out of my system and my fast metabolism has to do something with it.
 
Has anyone noticed that since taking sub you have a boost in stamina in the sack?? When I was taking 20mg it really caused bad problems in the bedroom, I first of all didn't really have the desire for sex and even if I did I couldn't really get going (if ya know what I mean)

But now that I take 8mg a day I notice that It actually helps... not only is the desire back but It seems as though I can last forever now... I didn't know if anyone else had this same great effect from bupe?? or if it was just me.... just wondering anyways...
 
my sex drive is next to non existant last few months whereas on dope i could get it up almost always and fuck for ages, blowing the load was next to impossible mission though
 
^
I always had trouble finishing on H.

Bupe makes it last longer for sure, but can make it hard to finish still. I'm on a low enough dose that I don't really receive these effects as much, just slightly. Subisjustokay, wait until you drop to a real low dose or when you taper off of suboxone, you're sex drive goes crazy!

I remember walking around on campus wanting to fuck every single girl I saw. It was a stimulation overload on the walk to class since you'd pass so many women. Ass, ass, titties, ass, titties, ass....
 
suboxone?

First off i have read most of the suboxone threads already and i still think that i have questions unanswered to my specific situation. I recently relasped and started snorting H again, however i only have one connection and this morning i did the last of what i had and called him and he is out and he is not sure when he is going to get more. so i should be alright for most of the day with what i did this morning but i currently have one 2mg suboxone pill and if my guy doesnt get right before i start going into massive WD i was thinking about taking it, like i said only if i have to. But in the threads i have read on here if i take it it will block me from getting high for like 48 hours. My main question is if i take this one pill while withdrawing and then lets say twelve hours later my guy calls me and is good i know you guys said i wouldnt get high cuz of the naloxone but will the H still keep away the WDs til the naloxone gets out of my system
 
If you "recently" started using again I would doubt that your W/D's will be anything serious. So don't let your thinking get to you.

I would snort the suboxone once the W/D's start. It will block the majority of heroin's effects for 36 hours, so any use before that, especially if you're only snorting, will be negated.
 
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