Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[ashevillechic]

I get on suboxone on wednesday and they said they will have me do drug tests and give me a 24 hour heads up, i was wondering if they would get mad for weed. i love weed, ha. so i hope they don't care...

If you have 24 hrs then just take the Sure Jell( used to make preserves, jellies ect..) in a gallon of water about 3 hours b4 and one vitamin B complex or just B(turns your pee the "right" color) pee 4-5 times (you;ll pee like crazy) and it WILL take the weed out. I've been doing it for a year and a half at the methadone clinic b4 I switched to Sub's a couple weeks ago. But just weed, for whatever reason it wont cover up the pills like it does the weed.

 

[ashevillechic]

Hmm... With a small dose like 2mgs sometimes it metabolizes quickly enough that if I dose in the morning, I can use at night... I just wait until my WD symptoms come back, and then use.

I would just wait until tomorrow morning. You will most likely still be wasting your OC, or have pretty dimished effects.

This is from a lot of trial and error with bupe... i've played this game a lot.

-lenses

What about this...I'm on the suboxone-which I've decided I hate because I never have any energy with it and I was wondering if I could take a "recreational" dose of methadone on it? It'll just be the one dose thing and I haven't had any subs since yesterday, plus I know I'll probably have to skip a day or 2 after the methadone b4 reusing sub's...any comment? Lenses I just want to feel good one damn day, its been weeks-seems like years since I felt decent and the Doc say's " Oh just hang in there you'll get used to it." Ugh! This is the first time in a decade ! 10 years!!! WTF that I've been straight---I haven't the faintest idea how to function plus I don't seem to even want to my energy level is so low/pain level high. (I was hit by a drunk driver a few years ago and my backs all messed up) Confusion and chaos guy's, confusion and chaos. If it wasen't for the Neurontin I'm not sure I'd get anything done.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Caterva- I'm new but I will tell you what my Doc said ( I have a job that CAN NOT EVEN THINK I'VE EVER HAD ANY KIND OF PROBLEM) He said unless I signed a form giving permission for whoever to see my records It could NOT be seen..the new privacy act or whatever...Now as for cost I pd 250.00 to see him, and my meds 2day for 2 weeks was 987.00. Of course this was for 120 of the 8 mgs because he seems to think I need 16 of the 8's a day-I use maybe 4mgs a day. A very helpfull person on here told me that was way to much so I started tapering...Its easier than the methadone.

Learn on my mistakes. 16mg of bupe is a lot. But some people need it, that is the consensus on here. But the sad truth is that bupe is a very addictive substance. If u stay on it longer u'll have hellish w/d. Let's say u're on bupe for 10 months like I was, then wanted to come off 1-2mg, u'll have w/d for 8-9 days plus RSL and insomnia for 2-3 more weeks. The shorter u r on this drug the better. I actually couldn't handle the pain and duration of bupe w/d. I tried. Got to like day 5 then broke down and went back to the doc. Then I used heroin for 2 days to get the sub outta my system, did w/d for like 24 hrs, then took like 0.25mg of bupe twice and pretty much had no w/d at all. Just the RSL and jumpy legs at night and the weird feeling in the hands and feet(burning, tingling, etc). Valium, clonidine, vitamins, exercise and neurontin took care of that, plus some seroquel and ambien which I haven't used yet but might if needed.

Sub is great for elevating cravings. I'm off the sub now, has been about 1.5 week and when I wake up in the morning I think of heroin. Hopefully that will subside soon, but having a drug free brain is odd, when one has been on opiates for as long as me(9months heroin, 9 months sub).

Some people just need to be on sub longer but the longer u r on it the harder it will be to stop. Even coming off like 0.25mg u'll have some w/d, then RSL and insomnia for 2-3 more weeks. So I suggest staying on it for as short as possible. Bu if ur cravings are bad then stay on it cuz at least u r nor risking a criminal record and all the bad that comes with illegal drugs.

But that being said, sub is still a biach to come of off if u've been on it for longer than 2 weeks.

 

[ashevillechic]

There is a rumor going around that spitting out the remaining suboxone after sublingual adminstration may reduce headaches associated with suboxone..(maybe because of nalaxone? idk)


Sometimes i get HORRID headaches from suboxone.. i take 1mg every 2 days

Since the day I started taking the subs I have had a headache everyday, today's is particularly annoying, its right behind my left eye-so I feel for you about the headache's and I'll start spitting instead of swallowing...lol Anything to get rid of these damn headaches..
BTW has anyone else heard of anyone being on as much as I'm prescribed? = 64mgs a day? Taken as Two of the 8mgs under tongue 4 times a day...????

 

[StaffWriter]

Setting up a "blockade" dose is the reason why many doctors start people off at 16mg a day. Since the majority of people on this site understand their bodies and drugs almost to a science, we know that you can take doses lower than 16mg to get by and have plenty of bupe for possible emergencies that may come down the road (don't plan for failure though!!). I think Tchort did some great research about the "less is more" theory going on around bluelight but I would recommend most people should start off at 16mg a day until they feel comfortable to start a taper. Worry first about staying clean and then once you get your life in order and you start to lose drug connections and associations, you can work on getting off the shit. Good luck to everyone.
SW

 

[Tchort]

Learn on my mistakes. 16mg of bupe is a lot. But some people need it, that is the consensus on here. But the sad truth is that bupe is a very addictive substance. If u stay on it longer u'll have hellish w/d. Let's say u're on bupe for 10 months like I was, then wanted to come off 1-2mg, u'll have w/d for 8-9 days plus RSL and insomnia for 2-3 more weeks. The shorter u r on this drug the better. I actually couldn't handle the pain and duration of bupe w/d. I tried. Got to like day 5 then broke down and went back to the doc. Then I used heroin for 2 days to get the sub outta my system, did w/d for like 24 hrs, then took like 0.25mg of bupe twice and pretty much had no w/d at all. Just the RSL and jumpy legs at night and the weird feeling in the hands and feet(burning, tingling, etc). Valium, clonidine, vitamins, exercise and neurontin took care of that, plus some seroquel and ambien which I haven't used yet but might if needed.

Sub is great for elevating cravings. I'm off the sub now, has been about 1.5 week and when I wake up in the morning I think of heroin. Hopefully that will subside soon, but having a drug free brain is odd, when one has been on opiates for as long as me(9months heroin, 9 months sub).

Some people just need to be on sub longer but the longer u r on it the harder it will be to stop. Even coming off like 0.25mg u'll have some w/d, then RSL and insomnia for 2-3 more weeks. So I suggest staying on it for as short as possible. Bu if ur cravings are bad then stay on it cuz at least u r nor risking a criminal record and all the bad that comes with illegal drugs.

But that being said, sub is still a biach to come of off if u've been on it for longer than 2 weeks.

It is ridiculous to worry about getting off of a maintenance opioid before you have even started the program. One step at a time. People should not worry about how 'hard' it is to get off of Buprenorphine or Methadone; because no opioid is easier or harder to get off of than any other. They are all hard to stop using, with different withdrawal syndromes depending on things life half-life, methods of action, etc.

It has been proven that patients who stay on maintenance with Buprenorphine or Methadone longer do better in the long run than those who stay on MMT or BMT for shorter amounts of time.

It was learned early on with Methadone maintenance and then reinforced with Buprenorphine maintenance that the dose has to be high enough (not this 'use low doses only' which lead to early Methadone programs looking like failures) and the treatment has to last long enough for the patient.

The correct amount of time on maintenance is the time it takes for the patient to stabilize their comfort on the substance, stabilize their social and work life/monetary situation, and to get to the point where they feel ready to detox.

And some people need to be on Opiate Replacement Therapy maintenance for years, or for the rest of their life. There is no correct or set time frame that everyone should be on it. It goes against the evidence to say that a shorter stint on Bupe maintenance is better than being on it longer, because the evidence in terms of longterm abstinence and social integration shows the opposite is true.

 

[Tchort]

Setting up a "blockade" dose is the reason why many doctors start people off at 16mg a day. Since the majority of people on this site understand their bodies and drugs almost to a science, we know that you can take doses lower than 16mg to get by and have plenty of bupe for possible emergencies that may come down the road (don't plan for failure though!!). I think Tchort did some great research about the "less is more" theory going on around bluelight but I would recommend most people should start off at 16mg a day until they feel comfortable to start a taper. Worry first about staying clean and then once you get your life in order and you start to lose drug connections and associations, you can work on getting off the shit. Good luck to everyone.
SW

Exactly. When someone starts Buprenorphine or Methadone maintenance, the first goal is to get them on a dose that is stable (keeps them comfortable without withdrawal symptoms for 24 hours).

The second objective is to raise their dose to a 'blockade' level where the mu receptors are basically saturated- in the case of Methadone, this usually means getting the patient to a dose of 80mg-120mg, on Buprenorphine 12mg-24mg; artificially raising your tolerance to a maintenance dose that eliminates all cravings and will block other opioids that would be ingested recreationally via cross-tolerance.

 

[DJ25]

OK I have a question, I take 12 mg of suboxone every day and have been for 1 month. I take the dose all at once as I'm in the UK and have to be supervised at my pharmacy. I feel good for the first few hours but then I gradually feel worse and the cravings, dysphoria. lethargy etc return (total opposite to the first few hours). Basically I feel the opposite of how I would feel when 'opiated' but without the physical withdrawal, just Psychological.

So do you think that the bupe is agonizing in the first few hours and then gradually leading to an antagonistic state? Funilly enough the pharmacist I spoke to today brought this subject up herself and said that it's a common complaint.

Could I be a rapid metabolizer? (doubtful as there are no physical withdrawal symptoms). I obviously need split dosage which I will speak to my doc about, but what is going on do you think? I think the antagonizing effects of bupe are something to do with it.

Any advice?

 

[Tchort]

OK I have a question, I take 12 mg of suboxone every day and have been for 1 month. I take the dose all at once as I'm in the UK and have to be supervised at my pharmacy. I feel good for the first few hours but then I gradually feel worse and the cravings, dysphoria. lethargy etc return (total opposite to the first few hours). Basically I feel the opposite of how I would feel when 'opiated' but without the physical withdrawal, just Psychological.

So do you think that the bupe is agonizing in the first few hours and then gradually leading to an antagonistic state? Funilly enough the pharmacist I spoke to today brought this subject up herself and said that it's a common complaint.

Could I be a rapid metabolizer? (doubtful as there are no physical withdrawal symptoms). I obviously need split dosage which I will speak to my doc about, but what is going on do you think? I think the antagonizing effects of bupe are something to do with it.

Any advice?

It sounds like Buprenorphine is simply not 'holding' you for a full 24 hours. This is common, as Buprenorphine does not help everyone. For those that do not get satisfactory results with Buprenorphine, Methadone maintenance is the alternative (since Methadone is a full agonist which can have better results in such people).

A higher daily dose or split dosing may be necessary.

It is nothing to do with Buprenorphine being an agonist then an antagonist, this isn't the case/does not happen/cannot happen.

 

[donkeyPUNCH]

I thought that the naloxone would have some effect in Suboxone to stop the feeling of any initial rush, and when IV'd , the effects are NOT immediate. The naloxone would slow or stop the initial binding to the receptors , and as the naloxone wore off, the bupe would kick in...

Does anyone notice a difference IV'd with Suboxone vs. Subutex?

-lenses

I believe you to be correct in this idea here, having IV'd both forms of Bupe, I can say that there is a DEFINITE difference in their actions. Subutex has a high, and a SLIGHT rush accompanied with it, while Suboxone has neither IME. I can only attribute this to the naloxone blocking the Bupe's ability to bind to the receptors fast enough to cause any rush, and then the naloxone being slowly replaced by Bupe causing you to not feel any high or rush, but just the normal "suboxone feeling" as I call it.

 

[ashla]

DJ25 i am the same way i have to dose twice a day, i was the exact same way with methadone but i have been trying to research about it being protein bound and if you take enough it will hold you, i am very confused with subutex and i never seem quite comfortable, somedays i feel just wonderful, and somedays i am sweating and very sick and need to take more i dont know why, my doctor has me on a high dose and i try not to use what he gives me but i just want to find one dose that holds me through twenty four hours so i dont feel like i am still a junkie having to dose every eight to ten hours, if anyone knows more about this i would like some information on the subutex being protein bound, thanks ashla

 

[dragonslayer428]

Will 16mgs of Suboxone get me through an opiate detox?

Ill try to make this short.

I'm coming off a 360mg a day Roxicodone habit. I had tried to detox with Suboxone in the past, but then I relapsed.

Now I am determined to do it for good this time. I have 2 8mg suboxone pills left from my previous detox.

My question is, how can I use these to my advantage during the detox? Am I better off just white knuckling it and NOT using the Suboxone? OR, should I use to suboxone during the first few days to get me through the withdrawals, then taper myself off (2mg being my last dose).

I am concerned that using the Suboxone will just cause it to extend my withdrawals. HELP!!

 

[Praxis.]

how long have you been using? And how long at 360?

 

[dragonslayer428]

360, for about a few months. But i've detoxed about 4 times before. The last time I detoxed was about a month ago

 

[dragonslayer428]

My opiate addiction started @ September

 

[CretiNation]

well... i would say no but i mean maybe yes although it'd still be pretty painful i imagine. how much bupe did you use in your previous detoxes? if i were you i'd do a real quick OC taper (360 -> ~80mg over 1-2 weeks) if you have the will power, then after your last dose wait a full 48 hours then take the bupe in 2mg increments every 1-2 hours not exceeding 6-8mg MAX on the first day, then wait 24-48 hours to dose sub again, at half (or less) of your first day dose. then decrease over the course of a week dosing every 24-48 hours or as needed. this, i think, would be the least painful way to work with what you've got.

360mg for ~3 months is just SO much OC and 16mg bupe i think would barely keep WD's at bay your first day if you didn't taper the OC first...

unless you can get more bupe, you are gonna be in a world of pain no matter what you do. that is why i suggest tapering down the OC first, that way you can get as much as possible out of the bupe that you have.

 

[dragonslayer428]

I think I may just white knuckle it. I've been through this before and have made it through. If it's way too painful, ill just take a half a sub.

 

[Praxis.]

Consider you haven't been using that long, and you last went through withdrawal a month ago, I'd agree. Just go cold turkey. You would have to wait 48 hours to use the subutex anyway, at that point you'd be halfway through the bad part and taking it would force you to start all over again.

 

[djsim]

SMall doses (1mg) taken daily should minimise some of the WD issues, but it will prolong the WD. Why not go onto bupe maintenance and give yourself a chance of quitting? Not saying you can't cold turkey it successfully, but the odds are stacked against you. You were probably just as determined to quit all the other times; what's changed now?

 

[Johnny blue]

^i agree. You stand little chance of being a complete success. You could taper and go even lower than 1mg. I've found it pretty easy to taper to nothing and not wd but, some of my friends did it to no avail. I guess its worth a shot and let's face it when you're in day 3 wd what are you not gonna take what you have (ya right). Realistically you're gonna take em anyway so you might as well taper.

I'm guessing you're from the US and that's probably why maintenance is viewed as a pain in the ass. That's my view as well and for some can be more expensive then their DOC. That said its still a very viable option. You may want to consider some other form of treatment. Perhaps you could admit yourself to detox and deal with wd that way. Maybe taper with suboxone and start going to NA meetings.

Whatever you do be real with yourself. You've been here before. djsim is right what makes you think this is gonna be any different? I think its important to know that relapse is often a part of rehabilitation too. Don't just give up cause you fucked up, we're all human(maybe).