Suboxone Blues

[SubDude]

My life sucks and I need a boost. At one time or another I've been prescribed just about every class of anti-depressant drugs. They either do nothing, make things worse, or numb my brain to the point I feel like a zombie. They just don't work for me.

I've been on suboxone for about 1.5 yrs after being on MMT for most of my adult life. Sixteen straight yrs on MMT most recently. I was pushed over to subs by the Veterans Admin after boxcutting both wrists. I think the federal govt is moving more and more towards suboxone over methadone because it's cheaper and they have more control over addicts behavior. I believe suboxone is a highly political drug.... at least on a federal level. I know subs works well for younger addicts but doubt it's effectiveness for long-term methadone patients.

I wish I could go back to MMT but can't justify paying [$13.50 day] at a private clinic when I can get subs at the VA- FREE. I really don't like subs and have tapered down to about 1mg a day. But haven't been able to go down any further. I felt just as bad on the higher dose of 12-16mg.

I want to feel good again... at least 2-3 days a week... I was able to do this on MMT with a few shots of vodka and a couple of benzos. I previously had a script for valium with the methadone but they cut my valiums when they switched me to suboxone. Vodka doesn't work for me with subs. Does anyone have any suggestions on how someone, stuck on subs, can get high [legally] while on suboxone?

 

[Faded .45]

Weed, maybe benzo's if you havent tried them, oh you said legally. Well I have no idea how to get high on them legally besides alcohol. Unless you could make it through withdrawal for about 2 days or longer. Then once you take your dose you'll get a little buzz, not much though.

 

[Faded .45]

You could try kratom though, thats legal

 

[oldhead]

Dude thats a bitch about the depression. You taking 1mg of suboxen a day is really great if it was just to get off opiates. I understand its a mental thing for you. I'm not up on anti-depressant drugs but I find subs to be a great mood lifter. I used them to get off OC and I found that marijuana really worked well with a little suboxen. Don't smoke the weed but try eating it. Really made a difference for me. I'm surprised methadone worked better for you then Subs for depression. Your really between a rock and a hard place. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[SubDude]

Thanks guys... I really appreciate your responses.

Oldhead, you hit it right on the head as far as saying I'm "between a rock and a hard place". Thats exactly what I told my subs dr at the VA. I think he cares but his hands are tied from the govt bureaucrats and local hospital/state regulations along with guidelines they must follow in order to keep in good standing with the people they report too .

I really think Suboxone is a highly political drug intended to maintain more control over addicts. I'm sure its good for politicians who want to keep their purtainic/calvanistic conservative christian support base. The idea that any substance that makes you feel good... is bad... gets/keeps these people elected. Thats why our prison populations have increased so dramatically... mostly from non violent drug USERS.

Sorry to get offtrack but I'm angry & frustrated to be in this situation. I was given Methadone by the VA hosp back in 1972 for shrapnel wounds and heroin addiction cravings. I was told it was a miracle drug... and have struggled with it ever since. Now they take it away and tell me Suboxone is a wonder drug. What a lie. Its really hard to detox after nearly 40 yrs of addiction, and even if I could, I don't think I am strong enough to make it stick.

I chose the name SubDude because I feel subdued by subs. I guess the pun is intended

Anyway, I need to find an avenue to feel good enough to make the effort to leave my home and connect with others again. Maybe once I can do that... I will be able to do it without needing a artificial stimulant. Suboxone maintenance is a major obisticle for me.

 

[SubDude]

You could try kratom though, thats legal

Hi Faded. I've heard of that.... thanks for mentioning it but isn't that a kinda psychodelic mind bending type of drug?

My brain chemistry is already altered to the point that pot can sometimes cause delusional thoughts. I guess I'm looking for something that will calm my nerves and give a little europhia.

here is what I've found [non opiate or benzo] elsewhere on BL

Clonadine-
Loperimide- Immodium AD
Tramadol/Ultram
Benedryl
Compazine
Soma
Requip
Phenegren
Gabitril
Aleve
kratom
Kava Kava
St Johns Wart

It's my understanding those of the above that are "prescription drugs" can be bought online with minimal legal exposure.

Any comments on the possibility of any of these complimenting low dose bupe maintennce??

 

[Faded .45]

in my experience i have never seen kratom as a psychedelic. maybe your thinking of something else? Kratom is something that can give you a mild opiate feeling, but its mostly used to help with withdrawals. I enjoy it quite a bit. I never tried it while I was on suboxone though, maybe someone else on here has combined them.

 

[SubDude]

in my experience i have never seen kratom as a psychedelic. maybe your thinking of something else? Kratom is something that can give you a mild opiate feeling, but its mostly used to help with withdrawals. I enjoy it quite a bit. I never tried it while I was on suboxone though, maybe someone else on here has combined them.

OK Thanks. I'm sure you're right... I skimmed thru it on wiko after seeing something about it on BL. I'm really surprised there aren't more former [long-term] MMT patents struggling on SMT.

The biggest problem I have to get feeling good with subs along with something else... is headaches. Alcohol works a bit but the headache comes shortly therafter.

 

[mainstreet50]

I'm actually very suprised about the fact that Suboxone is a fairly new drug, and the whole practice of it all. yet theres just something about it that makes me IMO mentally foggy.
I don't feel the same anymore, as I am currently looking to go to a detox to finally get off the shit. This program deals with dual diagnosis in which i suffer from and I have to really get to the core of my drug use over the past few years.
Even when I tried gettin off at home multiple times (which I obviously failed) I felt some much more clearheaded at about .5mg every other day. I got to about day 17 and really was feeling great overall and eating good but I blew it.
Don't abuse any benzos for more than 10 days -2 weeks. Don't want to swap addictions.
Hope the best for you.

 

[cj]

I dont think there is any hope for you getting high on bupe. I would raise hell about the side effects headaches are extremely common from the naloxone in it. Is your happyness not worth 13 dollars a day? I would get back on the done if it is but you say you have struggled with that as well? I dont see why the VA gives a shit which maintenence drug your on methadone is a hell of a lot cheaper ill tell you that. I wish you well man and thank you for your sacrifice (for what its worth)

 

[SubDude]

I dont think there is any hope for you getting high on bupe. I would raise hell about the side effects headaches are extremely common from the naloxone in it. Is your happyness not worth 13 dollars a day? I would get back on the done if it is but you say you have struggled with that as well? I dont see why the VA gives a shit which maintenence drug your on methadone is a hell of a lot cheaper ill tell you that. I wish you well man and thank you for your sacrifice (for what its worth)

I've pretty much came to the same conclusion about not being able to get high on subs. Suboxone is like driving on a flat surface.... which some people are fine with. I'd rather have the hills and valleys. I really can't imagine anyone being on subs for long -term maintenance like methadone. Most of the subs forums I've went too are filled with people trying to taper off. Even those who like it seem to want off.... before going the "lifer" route.

Suboxone is much cheaper for the govt [VA] to dispense because they don't have all the costs of clinic actions like dosing, urine tests, counseling, groups...etc. They just see you once a month for 10-15 mins and give you your script. Dispensing methadone is much more costly for them.

Yes my happiness is worth $13.50 a day but that isn't the only factor involved. I have SIX kids of which 3 are in private school and getting ready for college. Iwas able to afford this a few yrs ago with a successful biz which has now gone KAPUT... along with my marriage. Now the judge has ordered me to continue to pay for their educ [same as before divorce] until they are 21... which I must do out of an annuity and retirement savings. I do have some money in an educ fund but not nearly enough for one... much less three.

Anyway, I also have a problem with my prostate which makes it nearly impossible to pee while someone is watching/waiting for me... and going to a clinic everyday for daily dosing would be a big problem for me. It's a BIG decision to make and I'm just trying to explore all other options.

If I could just find something to go along with subs to feel good everything would be fine. I've thought about trying tramadol but concerned that would show in urine as an opiate?? I haven't had a urine test in 7 mos but they do random testing on occasion.

 

[totach]

im pretty sure the tramadol will not show up in a drug test. I did alot of research about that when i was still using n lieng to my girl telling her im taking tramadol for the w/d so she cant test me cuz i would fail opiates. Well that was b/s tho n after she did her own research she realised that i was lieng tramadol/ultram will not make you fail. Anways id say you can try n giv the soma a shot i bought a bottle online about a month ago n it really is a godsend for me but i dont abuse it i just pop 3 at nite to go to sleep. But there are alot of ppl that claim they love soma recreationally. They say it gives them a drunk feeling so i guess that n a couple shots n u should feel good. Evreything else u mentioned i do not think is recreational but i havent tried 2 of em.
good luck man
ps: y dont u try to get into one of those free methadone programs?

 

[Z Y G G Y]

So u pay almost a $100 per week for MMT. That's crazy. Where I am at, even private patients only pay $55 per week at most clinics. And if u don't work or don't make a lot u can become a state patient which means u pay something like $5-$10 per week. I'm on MMT and only pay $10 per month. Have u tried doing that?

I know suboxone ws useless for me for my depression and MMT is a godsend. Now that I know how much better MMT is than subs I will never go back on subs. I will always do anything possible to stay on MMT if I need ORT. MMT is superior to subs in every way.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

If you are on a maintenance drug, and you would rather be on a different maintenance drug that costs a couple bucks a day because it would do more than maintain you, then MAYBE there is more of a problem here. If you are struggling with depression maybe you would feel better if you just accepted that being an addict in recovery / on maintenance means you should be HAPPY to not be in withdrawal and having to do shady shit just to feel well.

Fuck man, I know dozens of addicts who do not have FREE access to suboxone and their financial situation is keeping them living a shity life because they cant afford to go to a clinic and get there shit together. Each doctor only has a limited number of slots for suboxone patients, if you are this dissatisfied and wanting to get high then maybe you should stop suboxone so someone who wants it to get their life together can use that patient slot and appreciate it....

Just my two cents

Being an addict myself, who has gone through mmt and suboxone, and cold turkey , each more than once, I can say if you are expecting to get high from your maintenance dose you arent ready to be on maintenance. I had friends who used the done clinic as a legal dope spot and they are ALL worse off now then when they started treatment.


Im seriously not trying to be a dick, but you should consider these things, and im surprised no one else has said these thoughts first.

 

[SubDude]

Still Subdued

I agree that MMT is by far superior to subs for long-term addicts like myself. The problem I have is I live in midwest small town accross state line from medium size city where VA and subsidized city methadone clinic is located. Private clinic is closer. I also had a successful biz for awhile which allowed me to buy an annuity and SEP retirement acct which shows up a assets on means tests. this keeps me from qualifying for sliding scale... even though divorce decree costs will run thru most of this money over the next 4-5 yrs.

I'm just unlucky to have fallen between geographic/assets cracks for low cost MMT. Thats why I really want to find a way to feel good 2-3 days a week without having significant legal exposure.

Seriously considering ordering some tramadol to use with either Kava, SJW or Kratom for that magic bullet.

I took 1/2mg xanax last evening with a couple a shots of vodka... No real buzz and got a headache later, but slept amazingly better than with subs only. Now I'm exposed for random unrine test next subs appt.... That sucks.

 

[SubDude]

If you are on a maintenance drug, and you would rather be on a different maintenance drug that costs a couple bucks a day because it would do more than maintain you, then MAYBE there is more of a problem here. If you are struggling with depression maybe you would feel better if you just accepted that being an addict in recovery / on maintenance means you should be HAPPY to not be in withdrawal and having to do shady shit just to feel well.

Fuck man, I know dozens of addicts who do not have FREE access to suboxone and their financial situation is keeping them living a shity life because they cant afford to go to a clinic and get there shit together. Each doctor only has a limited number of slots for suboxone patients, if you are this dissatisfied and wanting to get high then maybe you should stop suboxone so someone who wants it to get their life together can use that patient slot and appreciate it....

Just my two cents

Being an addict myself, who has gone through mmt and suboxone, and cold turkey , each more than once, I can say if you are expecting to get high from your maintenance dose you arent ready to be on maintenance. I had friends who used the done clinic as a legal dope spot and they are ALL worse off now then when they started treatment.


Im seriously not trying to be a dick, but you should consider these things, and im surprised no one else has said these thoughts first.

Thanks for your input and I appreciate you not trying to be a dick. However, I think you are missing the point. I'm not looking for underlying issues which may or may not be at the core of my addiction/depression. I'm looking for a chemical solution to dealing with the suboxone antagonist properites.

I'm also not presently concerned with dozens of other addicts in worse situations then me. At least not until I get my own problem fixed. I also understand everything is relative and others are in bad shape... but that doesn't make me feel any better. As far as not being ready for "maintenance"... I've been on MMT for the better part of 35yrs. That being said... I'm definitely not ready for SMT which is the issue.

I'm not seeking therapy or advice on how to get into a traditional recovery situation. if that was what I wanted... I'd go to a private shrink or other forums that advocate NA, counselling... etc. It was my understanding that BL was helpful with alternative strategies for enjoying life on your own terms...

Please correct me if I'm wrong about that??


BTW... $400 a month isn't a "couple of dollars a day"... and being a combat war veteran, I think I've earned my "slot" in the VA suboxone program. Especially since they were the ones who first put me on methadone back in 1972 for pain mgt [sharpnel wounds] and heroin addiction while in vietnam. The VA has maintained me on Methadone [off and on] ever since... most recently for 16 straight years before pushing me onto suboxone.

 

[Soul4Soul]

hey subdude...I also struggle w/depression (randomly). How much pain are u in? Just curious bcz our mental is connected to our physical. When i'm down i play basketball or do something outside and active for a boost. And also, this might sound dumb but,....Rollercoasters!! Total natural high that stays w/you for a couple days after. It's worked for me. ALL THE BEST!

 

[SubDude]

Thanks soul... I know I should get out but it's really difficult when you feel like shit. I think I'll try some concotion of kava, kratom, and sjw to see if that helps.