Bupe Suboxone and Precipitated Wds

[vicapro]

Hello all,

I am a new poster but am most definitely not a new user to this site, but if I am posting this in the wrong forum please forgive me.

I have been using opiates pretty much everyday for about a year and a half now. It started with hydrocodone as it does for many people, and after about 5 months its been oxy and dope for the rest of the way pretty much. My average use is about 4-6 bags of some decent shit (always insufflated), or 120-160 mg of oxy (orally sadly because of the new op formulation). For the past month though i have been using methadone; about 60 mg a day sometimes more if i want to get fucked up. I really like the fact that I can take just one dose in the morning and not have to worry about withdrawal and going out and copping, but it just makes me way too tired and lazy and I actually feel less productive which has made me realize that I really want to switch over to suboxone. I currently have around 60 of the 2 mg suboxone pills which if i could get on them I could save a ton of money and in the past i have had very good results with suboxone (btw I am paying street prices for the methadone because i did not go to a clinic and it is pretty much costing me the same amount as dope did to get high for a day). I have tried twice to switch to the suboxone and have gone through precipitated wds both time which has lead me to start the methadone all over again. Both times I have gone off the methadone and started up dope for 5 days getting me clean from the methadone for at least 108 hrs and then waiting 21-24 hrs after the dope until i felt wds. Then i would insufflate aprox. 1 mg of suboxone just to see if i got pds and as soon as i did it i was just like "o shit not again...".

So my question are if i go through precipitated wds and ride it out til the next morning will i be able to take suboxone again, or could it send me into precipitated withdrawals. And my second question is what is the best way to get around the methadone and get on suboxone without going through pds and i would really like someone to answer who has actually switched from methadone to suboxone. Thank you all any help is appreciated. And I have UTFSE many times for an answer to the first question so dont tell me to UTFSE or go to the megathread lol.

 

[Jabberwocky]

1) You won't know for sure until you try, but once you've fully gone through precipitated w/d's you should be good to use suboxone, at least the next day supposing you do through the w/d's and don't use another opiate in between. For myself, when I've had this happen, I only had to wait 6-12hrs after the precip w/d's took their nasty fucking hold.

2) This is a more difficult question. Methadone to suboxone, as you obviously already know, can be a really difficult thing to do. I actually don't know any hard core meth users who could do it, despite a huge desire and the fact they tried so, so many times. That all being said, a taper is probably your best bet, although I understand that for us dope fiends a self taper on any opiate is next to impossible/pretty unrealistic. Then again, in a sort of fucked up way, I was able to taper myself off H when I got sober recently, so it is possible. Then again, again, this was H, not meth. Not sure I could do it with meth. Almost certain I couldn't taper off meth to sub while avoiding the precip w/d's, because it would involve basically getting clean from meth first. No fricken way man. Would probably just get back to H in the mean time.

You said you tried getting off meth with H, but the transition from H to sub still didn't work. Maybe try using H for longer than what you did (was it a week/ten days?) before getting off it to sub? Then again, you'll still have to be careful not to use too much H - like, for this to work you would have to make sure when you go from meth to H you don't just increase your H use exponentially.

When you did go from meth to H, did your H use increase over what it was before you got on meth in the first place?

How long and at what dose (60mg all the time, or like a 60mg was the high end and your average dose was lower ?) have you been using methadone? This would be useful to answering your question. Hope I didn't just not read the sentence you might have mentioned this in your post. Let say I'm a little tired...

 

[vicapro]

Thanks for the quick reply toothpastedog,

When I switched from the done to the h my dose of the done was 60 mg average and every once in a while i would do 80-100 mg (like probably once a week on friday or saturday). Ive been only doing the done for about a little more than a month and 60 mg definitely holds me. Im going to try to go down to 40 for a week or two and see how that works before i try the suboxone again. I have noticed that even in this short period of time of using the done tho that my tolerance has skyrocketed. I am using the same dose of the h that used to do me good (4-6 bag) and i noticed that I am surely not getting the same feeling off of it that i was a month a go. This is the main reason i want to make that switch to suboxone before my tolerance grows any more.

I think your right that i have to get on the h for a little longer probably. Im sure that after taking methadone everyday it can build up in your system big time and even if you dont feel it its still there. And i definitely wont take any more h than than the regular (4-6 bags). I simply cant afford any more than that and i hate dealing with all those grimy dealers and risking going to jail i feel like all this shit just aint worth it any more and i just want to get on suboxone and stabilize my life. Another question I got is why I read all these posts about how after like an hour or two the precipitated wds are supposed to stop and the bupe takes control of the receptors. I know for a fact this has never happened to me and it seems like these kids dont have a clue what they are talking about. Does it actually only last for like an hour for some people? Mine last for at least 8 hours bad and then another 12 hours to be almost feeling better.

 

[Jabberwocky]

How long you have to wait after using a full agonist, just as how long precipitated w/d's actually lasts, totally depends on the person. That's why I said you can't know till you try, it's that sorta deal, given you already have a good understanding on what the "average/normal" response is suppose to be.

I totally hear you about how copping is a pain (to put it REALLY mildly). That's actually how I was able to taper off H, by making sure I was getting more and more ripped off each time I went to buy so that I would get shittier and shittier dope, thus cutting down. Couldn't imagine having the will power to do it on my own otherwise, that's for sure. Hehe, my little secret, huh? Sorta fucked up, but whatever. It worked!

Regarding methadone building up in your system, yup, that's how it's supposed to work, the theory being once you find the right/high enough dose it's supposed to prevent you from getting high (obviously this is only sort of works, as breaking through is easier than with sub ime).

I think you'll need to go way lower than 40mg to transition from meth to sub. Like at least down to 20-10mg for it to be really manageable. Of course, still depends on what your body's like. It certainly possible to do so at 40mgs...

Or were you referring to transitioning from 40mg meth to H? That would be significantly easier than doing so from 60, 80 or whatever. And it would be, duh, way easier than doing 40 meth to sub. Then again, I would still think you need to go lower than 40mg to successfully get from meth to H, then from H to sub, at least in anything approaching a comfortable state. Just my 0.02.

You're time frame for precipitated w/d isn't abnormal (mine is relatively on the short side). Dosing once you're in full on precip w/d's shouldn't make them any worse though. Was this the case for you? Won't necessarily help at all, but I don't think it made things worse for me when I did so. If this is the same for you, why not try using another 1mg or 2mg sub 8hrs after the precip w/d's take full hold, then the same again in another 4hrs, repeating every 4hrs w/ 1mg until you're straight?

Something that might really help you deal with the precip w/d's in the mean time is a long and short acting combo of benzos (aka valium along with xanax) and dxm (like 60 to 240mgs, depending on your body). dxm (doses ranging, once a day, from 120mg to 360mg (never used more than 120mgs of Hbr dxm preparation though; for higher doses I used the polistirex preparation - but at bother these doses, 120mg of Hbr as well as 360mg of polistirex, I would even eventually just get really tired and pass out, only having to suffer through a very mild dxm trip first (now I do not think my reaction to dxm is normal either, as I've never been able to really trip on it, cause if I take that much I just pass out like 45 minutes into the experience... trust me, I've tried); a nice thing about the dxm too is the hang over, cause it really numbs the pain the next day ime).