Bupe SUBOXONE after 6 YEARS on day 8 NO subs, using Kratom. Advice??

[Breesdad55]

I don't want to discourage you,but don't waste your money on kratom,I tried it for a suboxone withdrawl and it don't work

 

[Roxi808]

I don't want to discourage you,but don't waste your money on kratom,I tried it for a suboxone withdrawl and it don't work

This comment is laughable, I've had far and away the easiest detox of my life off 150-200 mgs a day oxy using Kratom....getting off the Kratom was no picnic but it was a nice day at the beach compared to a straight high dose oxy cold turkey....it's almost a bad thing as I feel like I can binge in oxy then just switch to Kratom no problem...which is not good in the long run

Edit: I see you say specifically suboxone, well I've used Kratom for jumping off suboxone at 2mg, same thing, virtually painless

 

[AddictChick]

I'm only on day FOUR of my sobriety from suboxone. I went from 6mg daily, to only 2mg as my last dose then come turkey from there. I've actually felt AMAZING!! I haven't had any severe withdrawal symptoms at all & I'm kind of scared and waiting on the "bad stuff" to happen the only symptom I've had would be the yawns and runny nose! I do have a natural relaxant called Formula 303 from Amazon I've been using with something called Zenta for anxiety & mood. Tbh some of these forums scare the beejeezus out of me hearing about others withdrawals. I guess every person is different but we're all after the same thing- to be our true selves again without having to use any substance!!! Good luck to all!! ~ONE STEP AT A TIME~

 

[Zerwas]

I don't mean to scare you but depending on how long you have been on it the real WD probably starts on day 5-7. Buprenorphine has a very long half-life and accumulates in your system so it takes a few days for the WDs to set in. For me it all started on day 5 and hit me hard from then. How long did you take the Suboxone? Because jumping from 2mg is still a very high dose to quit from, ideally you want to taper down to less than 0,5mg.

 

[mankind]

I don't mean to scare you but depending on how long you have been on it the real WD probably starts on day 5-7. Buprenorphine has a very long half-life and accumulates in your system so it takes a few days for the WDs to set in. For me it all started on day 5 and hit me hard from then. How long did you take the Suboxone? Because jumping from 2mg is still a very high dose to quit from, ideally you want to taper down to less than 0,5mg.

Exactly.

I was on 16mg of subs for 8 years. I did a half ass taper over maybe 2 weeks. I think I jumped at 4mg. I remember the first week thinking that it wasn't bad at all. Some minor issues, like a heroin-lite withdrawal that I could easily get through. Then by day 7 it actually started. If say a 6 month+ dope binge is a 10 on the withdrawal scale, this was probably a 7. Not insanely brutal, but it just wears you down to your core with it's duration. I didn't sleep for weeks! Wasn't eating but maybe a few hundred calories a day. I never had this feeling from opiates before, but I felt like I permanently fucked my head up. I can't stress enough how much it just eats at your very core because it's just constant, day after day. After a month of that I eventually started doing oxies and dope again. It wasn't even that I was dying to get high, I just wanted to sleep! And man, that first night's sleep was glorious! It did keep me using (chipping) the past few months though.

My sincere recommendation is to do a very, VERY long taper. I can easily understand how rumors get started like with methadone how it "gets in your bones" because of it's long half life. If methadone gets in your bones, suboxone infects your very soul.

 

[Zerwas]

^Well 16mg for 8 years is a very high dose for a very long time so it is not that surprising. My WD from ~1mg for about 1 year only took one week. After that I was totally happy and could sleep fine again. But the cravings last and made me relapse after about 6 weeks...

If one has taken opioids for not that long Buprenorphine should ideally be used for a rapid taper. I think such a long taper is only necessary if you have been on it for maintenance and a longer time

 

[cj]

You are in for some pain... Kratom might help a little. I suggest mixing the kratom with loperamide and benzos if you got them. Clonidine and a muscle relaxer would be ice as well. Personally I would go to a doctor and ask for clonidine, gabapentin, flexeril, and a benzo. Most will help you out with the first three and some will give small benzo script. I didn't read rest of thread so sorry if this is old news. I withdrew from 2 mgs a day after 5 years and experienced bad withdrawal starting on day 5, peaking on day 15 and declining slowly after that. I slept for the first time on day 25 or so. I relapsed on day 35 so I don't know after that.

 

[cj]

Exactly.

I was on 16mg of subs for 8 years. I did a half ass taper over maybe 2 weeks. I think I jumped at 4mg. I remember the first week thinking that it wasn't bad at all. Some minor issues, like a heroin-lite withdrawal that I could easily get through. Then by day 7 it actually started. If say a 6 month+ dope binge is a 10 on the withdrawal scale, this was probably a 7. Not insanely brutal, but it just wears you down to your core with it's duration. I didn't sleep for weeks! Wasn't eating but maybe a few hundred calories a day. I never had this feeling from opiates before, but I felt like I permanently fucked my head up. I can't stress enough how much it just eats at your very core because it's just constant, day after day. After a month of that I eventually started doing oxies and dope again. It wasn't even that I was dying to get high, I just wanted to sleep! And man, that first night's sleep was glorious! It did keep me using (chipping) the past few months though.

My sincere recommendation is to do a very, VERY long taper. I can easily understand how rumors get started like with methadone how it "gets in your bones" because of it's long half life. If methadone gets in your bones, suboxone infects your very soul.

Great post. I had the same experience. I swear I didn't sleep at all for 2 weeks. Then I slept for 4 hours one night with Seroquel then I didn't slepp for another 10 days. By that point my will was broken and I got on heroin.

 

[mankind]

Great post. I had the same experience. I swear I didn't sleep at all for 2 weeks. Then I slept for 4 hours one night with Seroquel then I didn't slepp for another 10 days. By that point my will was broken and I got on heroin.

Thanks man. I think we were in the exact same boat.

You said it perfectly when you mentioned how it just breaks your will. When I was going through really intense, acute heroin withdrawal, I felt like I would have traded anything for it to be over. Then by day 5 it started to get better for me. With suboxone, it literally just breaks your spirit with it's length, not necessarily it's intensity. I can remember by the fifth or sixth week off of it and it wasn't really getting any better, like maybe a 4 or a 5 on the intensity scale (not horrible, but still really uncomfortable). The lack of sleep is what truly broke me though. I've been off for over 4 months now, and chip with dope or oxies, and I STILL only sleep 3-4 hours a night. This is MONTHS later! Before I started chipping again, and I genuinely wanted to do everything I could to stay clean and get off subs, I went to my doctor and told him that in the past 5 weeks I slept maybe a total of 20 hours, he had me literally commited to a facility where I couldn't leave for 10 days! It was insane! I couldn't leave, and if I did try to escape, I would be arrested! I was in with people with the most severe mental problems, criminals straight from Rikers, and was constantly surrounded by madness 24 hours a day. They gave me trazodone there and they might as well have told me to just count sheep, while my roomate screamed in his sleep.

God, that was the craziest experience of my life. I've only been out a few weeks and it still has my head fucked up.

 

[Jabberwocky]

out of pure curiosity, do you feel any different after those 8 days? why did you need off Suboxone? was it holding you back in any which way?

I sometimes wonder what it would like to be "off" meds but I HAVE TO TAKE THEM FOR LIFE; not Suboxone but its one of the ones I take. I have actual health problems (not drug related) that make me take meds daily; so the daily Suboxone, aside from the 5 minutes it takes to melt under my tongue, really has no negative effect on me, so I see no problem in taking it. yes, if I didnt take it I would be sick as a dog and want to kill myself, but same goes for other drugs which I am scripted and if I didnt take id have a seizure, so I guess I am on drugs rest of my life regardless, but some are better than others.

 

[Jabberwocky]

its all which is why I plan on staying on all these drugs; I do fine right now and am more worried what WOULD happen if I tried to get "clean".

and by me "doing fine"its what I consider fine but seems to be pretty normal to the average 30yr old dude.

 

[Speetz]

Just so you know, sub is for anyone who has been on opiates and opioids; you were doing fentanyl which is WAY stronger than H especially if not taken orally. Oxy is very similar to H and so I HydroMorphone. H is just diacetylmorphine, but street H has all sorts of other crap like trace benzos and barbs and crap. One time for a hair drug test done and all I have done was heroin, meth and crack and it popped for everyyyything; including pcp other opiates besides 6-monoacetyl and 3-monoacetyl like fent and oxy which I hadn't done in forever. (I know hair tests go back but I had a Mohawk that was short and they used that so it was probably four or rice months of growth for six months of drugs or so, at most)

On topic

Better Kratom (not extracts) will get your sick off almost completely after about fifty hours of sub WD maybe as much less as 36hours. Lot of factors. It's great but you will still be dependent just not as much. Most say getting off k, while a little more intense physically than sub, as least at higher dose regimens, but last like a fifth of the time.

I reccomend it if you wanna get off for sure. If I ever wanna get off sub ill titration down then switch to Kratom for a long while then right after I take my last Kratom dose (if I ever do, I don't mind bein on maintence) I personally may try taking a 1-2 mg sub, SL or half SL half IM or even third with a third IV too, but that's just cuz i like finality.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Speetz, are you talking to me? sorry, but got confused when seeing you mentioned Fent. yes, my dope is much stronger nowadays because its white as a ghost; much cheaper for them to make but must stronger than what it once was. I FEEL its a different type of high and others sometimes agree but you have those addicts who would rather see the brown (which is why I am bostonBROWNtown but nowadays it would be a a white town in my neck of the woods (north shore / east Boston). we dont do "bags" in this area; its all sold gram, half gram, or 3 4's for a certain price - or just 4's in general.

I never had to buy a "bundle" or never had opportunity to grab ONE BAG! I cant imagine having to deal like that. never grabbed from the streets which is why. well, my streets I mean having to walk by and do a hand buy or something like that; I always had a connect who knew I was coming, where to go, how to do it, etc. or maybe it was just a drop off, which was ALWAYS a great thing to do.

 

[treezy z]

Ya bostonbrown I'm from MA too can't recall buying a stamp in my life, always grams half grams or variations of those

 

[Jabberwocky]

Ya bostonbrown I'm from MA too can't recall buying a stamp in my life, always grams half grams or variations of those

well, supposed out in Spingfield and shit like that they have bundles and shit; but in/around Boston there is NOTHING of he sort; its all powder; right now its WHITE AS A GHOST, or at least form my connect and what I hear from my people. I am in the Boston area and would never have heard of a stamp/knew of a stamp if not for these sites and basic dope knowledge; its NOTHING I've dealt w/. even when in CA and got tar I still bought a full G. that was something I do NOT want to deal w/ again; its fucking messy, man. I am just so used to this white fent shit that I dont want it to go away; well, I kinda do so I dont do it as much but I've been GOOD as of late.

 

[Speetz]

Speetz, are you talking to me? sorry, but got confused when seeing you mentioned Fent. yes, my dope is much stronger nowadays because its white as a ghost; much cheaper for them to make but must stronger than what it once was. I FEEL its a different type of high and others sometimes agree but you have those addicts who would rather see the brown (which is why I am bostonBROWNtown but nowadays it would be a a white town in my neck of the woods (north shore / east Boston). we dont do "bags" in this area; its all sold gram, half gram, or 3 4's for a certain price - or just 4's in general.

I never had to buy a "bundle" or never had opportunity to grab ONE BAG! I cant imagine having to deal like that. never grabbed from the streets which is why. well, my streets I mean having to walk by and do a hand buy or something like that; I always had a connect who knew I was coming, where to go, how to do it, etc. or maybe it was just a drop off, which was ALWAYS a great thing to do.

I was its talking to the OP. Was that you? Lol I am on mobile so just lmk if not, I'll come back in a bit

EDIT yeah it wasn't you. As far as bags and bundles, I live about two hours from Chicago and here we only see it weighed or bags with random weight and sold in multiples of that, not like "stamped bags" or stamps . sometimes you can find the equivalent of a stamp but it's usually a bit bigger and more costly, like a twenty bag. Never see stamps unless you head up to the city, but here is called the mini city there is a good amount of dog food basically, or a variation. Also only by price; and equivalent to half a bundle as a minimum sometimes, sometimes less, but basically same quality. Saw a heavy user OD on a half bundle he would normally do, one person on a third. Smack is weird around here anymore.

 

[Everything12]

So im new to this site and I know this is completely unrelated . I have not shot dope for 5 years, but now I have a bag and a rig. I am however also on 16 mg of suboxone. And a lot of bars. If I shoot up, is there a good chance I will od? Sorry for thebirrelevance of this question.

 

[Jabberwocky]

So im new to this site and I know this is completely unrelated . I have not shot dope for 5 years, but now I have a bag and a rig. I am however also on 16 mg of suboxone. And a lot of bars. If I shoot up, is there a good chance I will od? Sorry for thebirrelevance of this question.

all depends; some people shoot through suboxone and are able to feel it; others say they do not feel a thing. all depends on the person.

I would suggest NOT shooting through it and just waiting if you MUST use the dope; all you need to wait is a day - 24hrs at most. 48hrs even better but I know its tough to hold the dope for that long w/o putting it in your arm, lol.

yes, w/ benzos its always scary. I am a benzo user who shoots so I find it to be alright but thats ME and only ME; many others have dropped dead doing things like this.

 

[kratomized]

Heres my advice subzzgirly...first YES you must realize that the subs are a MUCH stronger drug than kratom....so you must continue taking kratom for awhile much like they had you on subs for your Fent issue....fent is stronger than subss...granted 6 years is way too long to keep you on them...I would think several months at most and then begin to taper from subs...anyway whats done is done...now what I WOULD DO...is stay on kratom for a few months at least and just try and enjoy it...when you start to feel normal...like actually get a slight buzz from the kratom...that means you subs tolly has dropped a bit and you can start your taper....after three years of daily kratom use I found it to be VERY EASY to taper from....I would taper about I would taper 1/2 to a full gram every day or two days and then jump off from 1/2 gram....you will have no withdrawals that way.....emotionally and mentally you may feel "empty" because you will be completely sober for the first time in over a decade but you will bypass any real sickness....at this point you may want to start a work out routine, change your diet, etc...hope this helps

 

[Skippwiggins]

Hey Grizz, any update? I have kicked subs 6-7 times in the past. I tapered down to 0.25-.75mg and stopped. Its usually seven days of restlessness, chills, yawning, leg pains(worst part), cravings and then seven days of lethargy. I usually feel back to baseline(100 percent) after 21 days. I did H for two years and on and off subs for almost 3 years. The withdrawal is very minor and nowhere even close to as intense as full agonist withdrawal. Anyone who comes off 1mg or less of sub and acts like they are dying and truly cant tough it out have never had to kick a 'Real Habit'. Not trying to dicksize nothing like that but coming off 1mg of sub isn't much compared to a heavy habit kick. Theres no reason you shouldnt be able to get by on 8-18mg(MAX) imodium per day and taper 2mg per day. Sorry about the rant but its really not hard to kick such a tiny dose. 1mg is equal to like 40mg long acting hydrocodone.

Alas, I always end up back here. Hopefully the final time. Im on day four of sub withdrawal. I jumped off at 1.5mgs. Luckily I dont have work. I take 8mg lope at night with 0.25mg xanax and that keeps me asleep for eight solid hours. If i absolutely cannot sleep i will take MK 677 it is an oral growth hormone sectretagoguge and truly works wonders for sleep and muscle gain, skin quality. I know that will put me out if I cannot sleep. and During the day I drink green tea, ginseng tea, and siberian ginseng/rhodolia for energy. The rhodolia really works wonders. You need 8% rosavis and 2-4% salidrosides extract. It has a very slight slight maoi inhibiting action and some adaptogen qualities. Non habit forming herb. Im exactly 96 hours in and just got back from my second AA meeting today. I go to NA Too but prefer AA. It's a more relaxed environment. You need to have some plan in place after you are doing detoxing to stay clean. You dont even have to work the program you can just go and vent. Even if you are against it you should give it a try. If you have no one else to talk to about addiction its kind of a must if you expect to maintain a quality sober life and want to change. Talking, venting, building relationships, bonding, etc is #1 for recovery - you dont need to work the 12 steps if you dont want to. Im going for 90 meetings in 90 days. I also go to the local trails near me and walk 3 miles a day and relax by the river for about three hours a day to keep my mind off of withdrawal. It sucks but the caffeine and ginseng make it bare-able. I already weight train daily as well but won't take that back up heavily for a couple weeks. Just light 25 min sessions currently.

Honestly the marijuana maintaince program and exercise are what have always kept me sober and happy without drugs. Marijuana kills the boredom, cravings, need to get 'high' or relax. 0.5g a day. Exercise upregulates serotonin and dopamine receptors and kicks the endogenous endorphin system in gear. It will give you an appetite, energy, confidence, a purpose! Seeing yourself get ripped is great and just knowing any drug use will derail your progress keeps you to your routine. Everyone needs to exercise daily not just addicts in recovery. I advise anyone and everyone to do it. I seem to recover from opiate WD about twice as fast as anyone else i have met and I attribute that all to exercise.Plus you also get some social time at the gym in. Good place to make new friends. Goodluck and I hope to hear an update that you are doing well. Like they say withdrawal is the worst for people who are more psychologically addicted. 70% mental & 30% physical. Get the mental down with marijuana/benzo & exercise for the physical and the rest is a cake walk. Pretend you have the flu and not withdrawal.

Oh and SamE an over the counter product really really helped my joint pains and also gave me a good mood & energy boost around 800-1000mgs. Wish it wasn't so pricey I love the stuff.