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Sub users: What was day one like for you?

ladyhlove

ladyhlove

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Nov 9, 2017
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The land of Oz. Can't seem to make it past this da
Sorry if I'm posting up a storm today. I'm excited/nervous about starting my subutex program tomorrow morning.

What is it like when you first get on sub? Is it magical and everything just feels right again, or does it take some time? I have absolutely no idea what to expect.
 
As many people have said before me, it is like the warm blanket of heroin but with holes in it. I have been on suboxone for 8 years and today is my 7th day off. When you get used to suboxone, it becomes your new heroin. Hence me being on it for 8 years straight. I did everything on it and it really magnified all of it 10 fold. It became so hard to come off. I'm actually thankful that negative side effects started happening to me. I have trouble sleeping b/c I wake up in a frenzy, not breathing and scared to death. Had it not been for that, I'd still be on it. Good for you for starting it, you can expect to just not be sick when you first start. That's it. If you're looking for a high, you've gone onto the wrong drug. But getting on sub from a harder narcotic is very respectable. It's not easy. My advise is PLEASE do not start at a high dose. Sub is very very strong. My recommendation is to use it for 6 months or less. I'd say one month but you need time away from harder drugs or you'll go right back. Get into counselling and/or 12 step program. Don't let your doctor start you on 16mg. Ask for only 4mg per day, that is all you need, no matter how much drugs you did. You will be glad you did. Also, 4mg vs 16mg is no different. It has a ceiling. Doctors put you on a high dose and try to keep you on it forever. Not every doctor, just the ones who capitalize on suboxone. And subutex does not have any naloxone which I believe is beneficial to you in your first few months so you cannot use drugs. Good luck.

John
 
I explained a lot of this in other posts..buttt...

I'm entering an outpatient program where I'll be going in daily for roughly a year. The program involves subs plus group therapy and one on one counseling. Once they feel like you're making progress, they will begin to ween you. I've done CT more times than I can count and it doesn't work for me. I'm not sure the mg they are going to start me at. It will be subutex also, not suboxone.
 
First off, congrats on taking the steps towards sobriety.


Not sure if it matters but I obtained my bupe illicitly (suboxone and zubsolv) and obviously induced myself. Also, if you don't already know, wait until you score at least a 26 on the COWS scale (moderate to severe WD symptoms), for me it took 24 hours. If you don't wait long enough bupe will throw you into precipitated withdrawal which is much worse than regular. There seems to be 2 primary philosophies when it comes to bupe, short term and long term. Long term (years on bupe) allows you to change life habits and how to deal with issues etc.


Now, personally I've always gone the short term taper method, this is what works for me and is not under any type of medical supervision. Coming off a 200mg+ oxycodone habit, I started off at 4mg, and every hour take 2mg more until I'm feeling ok. Usually 6-8mg the first few days. I usually stay on a dose for 4-7 days and reduce by 25-50% until I get to about .5mg, skip days, then finally jump. My goal is to be on bupe for no more than 2 months, any longer than that and I end up having WD from bupe.


To answer your question, everyone is different but 30-45m after inducing to the appropriate dose, sub should take away almost all WD symptoms and have you feeling "normal". For me, after a few days the bupe builds up a bit and I usually am feeling pretty good. Your appetite, sleep, everything should return to normal which naturally will make you feel better. At lower doses (<2mg) bupe gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine, a whole other conversation, but it gives me a little extra energy.
 
What is CT? That is good that they have counseling. And that they talk about weaning you, sounds good so far. The reason I say to start low is b/c subutex is extremely strong. It also has a ceiling that is easily reached. Every time I took more than I was supposed to, it just made me feel worse. 4mg, my suggested starting does is plenty for a bundle a day habit or more. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I cannot stress that advise enough, I really can't. It's basically a slow methadone in regards to body deterioration. Yes, sub effects you teeth liver and many other things. Not to mention, when you're on 16mg for a long time, it is so so so so very hard to come off of. Did I mention it is VERY hard to come off of at 16+mg? There is NO reason for a dosage that high. I don't say things I'm not sure of and in my 8 year career, I have learned a great deal. Stick with it, you can do this and it is the best thing you've ever done for your life. Sub gets you your life back but you're still on a ball and chain which is why I urge you to make smart choices from the jump.

John
 
P.S. They'll probably start you at like 8mg per day. I'm no doctor and I am just speaking from the heart and experience. When you first start, they're going to want to built up the bupe in your system. I'm not trying to scare you, but you're best off going into this with a healthy fear of bupe. It can't hurt. But after you start your 8mg or higher, I would find my sweet spot and then begin weaning down to the most comfortable dose for YOU. Everyone is different. Stay on that for 6 plus months, as low as you can comfortably. Some ppl need a year or more away from hard drugs in order to get it out of their head. That's the whole thing, shit, the withdrawals from heroin last about 3 days then you start feeling better. But the monkey is still there. He doesn't go away in 3 days, that is the whole problem. Start living your life on sub and eventually the monkey fades away, he really does. I should've stopped it after a year, but as I said, I was very addicted to bupe. I have taken both, subutex and suboxone. But the subutex has a higher affinity for abuse.

Anyway, I wish you the best and congrats on your decision to put an end to drug use. Pat yourself on the back.
 
bupe, (subutex and suboxone) is a partial agonist that mainly works on the mu receptors and pretty much acts as an antagonist on the rest. B/c it's a partial agonist, if you still have heroin on your receptors, they all get ripped off and replaced with the partial agonist. Basically a half of a high or less. This is why they tell you to wait until you're in withdrawal before you induce. Subutex or suboxone, no difference in the precipitated withdrawals. Subutex just has no naloxone. All the naloxone does is prevent you from getting high on other drugs after induction. But the partial agonist that bupe is is what causes precipitated withdrawals.
 
Another P.S. I feel that I have come at you strong and with a lot of information. I do not want to scare you away from subutex. It has been a lifesaver for me. It is a wonderful drug if used properly. My advise about 4mg is a little over the top. You do need to get it into your system and starting at higher doses is probably to make SURE you don't feel sick and give up. But still, I would get cozy and get as low as you can.
 
Everyone is different. Are you sick after 12 hours? I think I only waited a very short time before I started sub. 12 hours is usually enough. I started after I JUST started feeling sick.
 
ladyhlove said:
Generally yes, I start getting sick around the 8 hour point actually. Not full blown, but GI issues, chills, runny nose, that sort of thing. Hopefully, I'll be good to go.
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I'm not a doctor but in my opinion and experience, that is enough. You should be fine.
 
ladyhlove said:
Sorry if I'm posting up a storm today. I'm excited/nervous about starting my subutex program tomorrow morning.

What is it like when you first get on sub? Is it magical and everything just feels right again, or does it take some time? I have absolutely no idea what to expect.
Click to expand...
Day 1 - I had waited 24hrs.. I was skeptical. Started induction very low, .5mg at a time. When I hit 1.5 it’s like I had dived into the Caribbean, I literally cried and laughed with relief after a rough month of bouncing back and forth on cold turkey. Day 22 now, a couple test. Bumps but I’ve really leveled out a lot

also, it took a solid week for me to adjust to the effects - it wasn’t perfect and I didn’t feel high or anything, think I’m a bit sensitive to its side effects
 
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Getting relief after being in moderate/severe WD can almost feel like a high. Everyone is different but at the right dose bupe should give you relief pretty quickly.
 
Well I started today and am incredibly disappointed.

They started me at 2mg and had me wait for an hour to see how I felt. Nothing. They gave me 2 more and had me leave. Still nothing.

I wouldn't say I had precipitated withdrawal but regular wds for sure. Ended up buying a little dope afterwards. I'm not high but I'm not sick. :(

I'm upset with myself but I felt so bad I didn't know what else to do. They're gonna bump.me to 8mg tomorrow. I'm not going to use a good 18 hours before my next sub dose tomorrow..will the 8mg make a difference?
 
ladyhlove said:
Well I started today and am incredibly disappointed.

They started me at 2mg and had me wait for an hour to see how I felt. Nothing. They gave me 2 more and had me leave. Still nothing.

I wouldn't say I had precipitated withdrawal but regular wds for sure. Ended up buying a little dope afterwards. I'm not high but I'm not sick. :(

I'm upset with myself but I felt so bad I didn't know what else to do. They're gonna bump.me to 8mg tomorrow. I'm not going to use a good 18 hours before my next sub dose tomorrow..will the 8mg make a difference?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the 8 will make a difference and make you feel normal. Were you totally dopesick when you were there when you took the 4 mg? You were still not feeling normal when you left? I know this is your first go-round with subs, but it's a weird deal, IME at least. You just feel kinda "not-sick" -- there is definitely no high at all, at least for me there isn't. But I always try and keep my sub doses as low as possible.

Don't beat yourself up. Hang in there.
 
I was def dopesick. I don't get quite as bad as some do..but all the familiar symptoms were there...cold sweats, nonstop runny nose/eyes, stomach pain, goosebumps etc.

No I felt equally as dopesick when I left...even just a little bit more. After doing a couple of lines of h I definitely didn't get the high I normally would from it but the dopesick subsided some. Still not 100%.

I'm wondering if it was bc of my habit. I'm dealing with a bad breakup from last week so the amount of h I had been doing was a bit more than usual...went from snorting a half-full gram a day to 2 even 2.5 a day in the past week.

Would methadone be a better choice bc of the size of my habit? I just want to feel normal. I took a half day to get inducted into the program this am and had to call out for the whole day bc I felt so bad .


I was really hopeful about this and feel very disappointed.
 
I can't speak for methadone but for the bupe induction, either 1 of 3 things happened IME.

1 - IMO, this is the most likely explanation. Maybe 4mg just simply was not enough for you. Everyone is different, so I would suggest bumping it up as your doc suggests.

2 - You said you might have felt a littl sicker after taking the bupe. This could be PW. But it's weird b/c you had all the symptoms that would make me think you were definitely in moderate WD which should be fine. Just remember the longer you wait the better bupe will work.

3 - As aforementioned, I can't speak to methadone as I have no experience with it, but it's possible that bupe just isn't for you.

Good luck, keep us updated.
 
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