Sub Taper ? / Need Help and Advice (Again)

[john3434]

As mentioned in several other threads, I am currently on a Sub taper. Everything has been going fine until today. Went in to see the doc for my next script. Everything went as planned, passed drug test, etc. But then she drops a bomb on me and says she wants me to do the taper faster than originally planned. I had worked very hard to get to the point I was at and to get her to approve a taper that lasted up to 4 weeks. Now she wants to drop it to 2, and there is basically not a thing I can do about it. This all leads to the advice I need.

I would really like to make the taper last the full 4 weeks, especially getting down to the really low doses. But I'm now limited with my prescriptions because of the change. I've been reading about ways to make the most out of each pill. I'm not really interested in taking cimetidine with each dose. The only thing I've seen that looks promising is the process of dissolving the pill in something like Everclear at a measured dose, soaking it up with cotton, then placing under the tongue.

Now, if it's true that this method can really increase bio-availability from roughly 30% to upwards of 60-70%, that would solve my problem and I would be able to work with the script that I have and make it last a full four weeks.

I've read everything I can find on this and it seems legit. However, before I try this method I wanted to hear from some of you who have tried this so I know for sure that it will work. I would really appreciate it if anyone who has tried this could chime in as soon as possible so that I can make the proper adjustments if I am going this route.

I realize this could possibly be better suited for a different forum, but it concerns detox, taper, etc. so I'm hoping it's ok to put this here.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer. I apologize for all of my threads about this taper lately. Just trying to get through it successfully and can use all the support I can get.

 

[theartofwar]

You could snort them , they have a nasty drip but I do it if I don't IV them.

How long have you been on bupe ? 2 weeks is not long enough.

 

[john3434]

I've only been on them for 5 days now. Not sure I want to snort them. I thought snorting them caused problems because of the Naloxone. Does snorting one increase the bio-availability and still last as long as taking them sublingually?

 

[theartofwar]

naloxone doesn't make any difference to snorting bro , i was on 1mg snorted and it would be as effective as taking a quarter of one - cut my dose in half.

 

[john3434]

What about plugging it? I'm not fond at all of the idea but all reports say it gives the highest
Bio-avaiability next to IV. I'd be willing to try if it would save that many pills.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I would go to another doctor; most doctors will let you taper at your own pace for maximum possibility of success.

Some of us (myself included) have been on Suboxone for years; 4 weeks is really quick, so don't think that you should have to do it in 2. Don't panic about this as I know I would if this was the first time I had to go looking for "the right" doctor (who in the end, was very ignorant, but still able to prescribe medication when I needed it the most).

naloxone doesn't make any difference to snorting bro , i was on 1mg snorted and it would be as effective as taking a quarter of one - cut my dose in half.

Barring unique cases of naloxone hypersensitivity, the naloxone doesn't change anything about Suboxone, with any route of administration.

 

[theartofwar]

I swear naloxone messes with me , I get depressed on it , i much prefer subutex , as far as admin routes I'm with you - doesn't phase me one way or the other .

 

[Bojangles69]

What about plugging it? I'm not fond at all of the idea but all reports say it gives the highest
Bio-avaiability next to IV. I'd be willing to try if it would save that many pills.

Yes plugging would be the second best way to conserve suboxone aside from injecting.

You might be weirded out about it initially but once you master a technique (I use a needless syringe and mineral oil for lube) you'll never go back to snorting or sublingual. Its amazing how much stronger it kicks in and also how much longer it seems to last. I was getting low on sub at one point, tried it one time, and now thats the only way I will take it is plugging it. You save a lot of money too even in the short run. And you basically extend your sub supply X4 (well close to X4 I think).

 

[kmatrixg]

I would go to another doctor; most doctors will let you taper at your own pace for maximum possibility of success.

Some of us (myself included) have been on Suboxone for years; 4 weeks is really quick, so don't think that you should have to do it in 2. Don't panic about this as I know I would if this was the first time I had to go looking for "the right" doctor (who in the end, was very ignorant, but still able to prescribe medication when I needed it the most).



Barring unique cases of naloxone hypersensitivity, the naloxone doesn't change anything about Suboxone, with any route of administration.

I have heard of the same "2-4 week taper" from other people seeking help - while it logically makes sense, it doesn't seem responsible or reasonable when taking into account the dynamics of human emotion, reaction to stress and habit when pertaining to an addict. The longer the treatment of suboxone, the longer a person is likely to remain clean for. Relapse happens, but with only 2 weeks between (I'm assuming) heavy use to nothing, the need to fix is going to be even more present then before you started suboxone.

I'm can't comment on the safety of intranasal or intravaneous use of Suboxone, but I will say this: If you're dedicated to getting clean, it involves a lot of work. Getting the most of your medicine through a medically unadvised method of administration, as you are considering, is defeating the purpose of battling your addiction by using suboxone to help - especially this early into "treatment". Try to take it as prescribed. It's not as if she's going to lock you out of her office after your last visit. If the taper isn't working after the first week, explain to the her that you DO NOT feel mentally comfortable tapering that fast and that addiction is a mental battle and hardly a physical one. If you're having cravings, tell her about them - don't keep them a secret or feel ashamed.

Honestly, the way she's setting you up is as if you had a physical dependence without the properties of a true addiction; Ex. you were prescribed pain meds after a surgery for a month and now no longer need them (I wish that was me). So many suboxone treatment programs are set up this way, as if true addicts didn't exist, or would never seek help. I was lucky to land in a good program my first time looking and after 21 months, reached the point where I felt comfortable with my progress and stopped taking them.

Long story short - be up front and honest with the doctor. It's their legal obligation to help you, not hurt you. And like CH said - find a new doctor if she doesn't work with you.

 

[john3434]

Final question. Does snorting it last as long (24 hours or so) as SL and also does it tske a while to kick in when
Snorted like it does with SL. Tried it with a quarter last night and it seemed as though it took 20 to 30 minutes to kick in.

 

[infamousryan]

heres my detox method
ey yo. I would just like to post my sub experience.
I have had vasodilation (swelling of the feet) from suboxone before. but at 34mg which i would never take again

now no matter what dose i take my feet swell

so this is what i did. i went from 8mg to 4mg to 2mg and jumped in 4 days i've been on suboxone 4+ years(you can do this more slowly)
(plus whatever was built up in my system was still lurking from 4 years plus taking)

I went out and bought a SHIT TON OF SUPPLEMENTS
Fruit Juice Extreem ACAI berry, Blueberry, Goji Berry, Mangosteen, Hawaiin Noni, Black Cherry, Resveratrol, and more, high antioxidants
Cranberry Extract(take lots)
Apple Cider&Vinegar Extract
Regular Centrum vitamins
Fiber capsules ( a must - take lots)
Protein Shake
Super Green Tea Extract
Biotin(optional)
Omega 3-6-9 Fatty Acids(optional)
Colon Cleanser(optional)
anything with antioxidants
Lutein(optional)
Flaxseed Oil
Beta Carotene

For 2-3 days i used time release 120mg dihydrocodeine after jumping off of sub. after 3 days i was able to get COMPLETELY FUCKED UP off of 200mg of codeine. that means my tolerance dropped over 400mg!

2mg of bupe = 660mg of codeine = 60mg of hydrocodone.


after i was done doing this, i tried sub again.. 1mg under the tongue had me completely fucked up. i am now doing the detox over again cause' i succumbed to the suboxone.

here are some more great things that will help you. one is the acai(first link), another is a super fruit extract super antioxidant blend.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

Fruit Juice Extreem TM HIGH POTENCY Amazon ACAI, Blueberry, Goji Berry, Mangosteen, Hawaiin Noni, Black Cherry, Resveratrol, and more, high antioxidants

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

drink milk to help coat your stomach. remember - fiber and antioxidants are a must - this is how opiates are removed - urine and feces. antioxidants also cleanse the body.

another optional thing, you might laugh, is the kinoki cleansing detox pads.


check it - i totally detoxed with this stuff in under a week. i was on subs for 4 years! with a 4 month break and a 1 month break! I was started at 34mg! hope this works for you

i have more to add like i only ate rice pudding and stuff even though i was not nauseas, just not hungry.
ibuprofen for headaches
something to goto bed if you need it
something for the runs if you need it (Immodium AD,Pepto,Etc)

if you're widthdrawals are really that bad, do all this, check with your doctor, and take a shitload of tranqs and knock yourself out for the last few days of the major withdrawn symptoms
-------------
Tips for overcoming W/D symptoms:
1. DISTRACT YOURSELF
I could not possibly stress this enough. Those of you who've ended up on this website are probably a) somewhat intelligent (or at least computer-adept) and b) somewhat introspective / intraverted. This means that you're probably going to spend most of your day thinking about how you're feeling and catalouging the symptoms you're experiencing. The problem with this is that the mere process of self-analisys is creating and amplifying your symptoms!!!
2. CREATE YOUR DEFENSE
What I mean by this is; Arm yourself with whatever will possible help you get through this, both physically and psychologically. Get yourself some relatively benign medications (aspirin, etc) and when you are experiencing pain, take one. (not more than is medically sound). This helps not just because of the actual effect of the drug, but because you feel as though you've got the edge now. You're not trapped, you've got your little army of medications (aspirin, melatonin(sleep), chamomille tea(also sleep)) to help you get through this.
3. STAY ACTIVE
This is pretty self explanatory, and it helps in multiple ways. First off, while you're active, you're hardly ever thinking about your symptoms. When I went through my methadone withdrawal, I spent 8-12 hours each day chainsawing through trees, and during those hours, I felt (relatively) alright. Staying active also helps because it will increase your odds of getting a good nights sleep.
4. EAT HEALTHY
Remember that everything you put in your body is helping to get the toxins out of your body. Every trip to the bathroom means slightly less opiates in your system!