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Sub Maintenance vs. Living Totally Sober

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bamaman7

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Oct 23, 2013
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I've abused opiates for close to 10 yrs now. I started using to get through double shifts at work. I took Lortab 10 mg, 1 a day after 8-9 hours at work to help with the last 4-5 hours. I did this every day just one pill for about a year, occasionally taking 1-2 on the weekends to get high. After a year it became 2 a day, then 3, 4, until I got to about 6-8 a day. I quit cold turkey and stopped for about 5-6 months. I started back again but never did string months together and only went through mild WD's occasionally but nothing like the first time. Then i found Oxy's and Lortabs became almost useless. At the time, I had enough money to occasionally get high but mostly just enough to stay normal but not enough to stay high. IDK why i didn't cross lines for money to attempt to stay high but I didn't. Instead, I found Suboxone through a friend who was in my situation as well. I thought it wasn't addictive and considered it a miracle. Boy was I wrong. I've been on subs off and on for 4 years now. I went to AA about 3.5 years ago and got sober for 45 days until I manipulated my Mother in law to give me adderall then later stole a few of her clonipin. Even though I fell off I didn't go back to anything but subs. I don't even know why i took the adderall and benzos; i guess it was just addicts thinking.

Anyways, In the last 3 years I've been very successful financially while on subs, 8 mg per day. However, I always bought it off the street and hid it from my wife. I feel like a loser for needing something just to be normal so I finally came 95% clean to my wife and she has been understanding even though shes never been one herself. I'm on my 3rd day without subs and I feel like shit. I tapered down over 2 weeks from 8 to 1 mg, taking less than 4 mg for 10 days before going down to 1 the last 3 days. Before tapering I took 8mg a day for the last 2.5 years.

Right now I'm going between staying strong to sometimes texting and calling people i shouldnt looking for something. I've been smoking weed during the day and taking xanax at night to sleep. I want to believe I'd be ok taking some form of opiates other than subs to help with WD's but I don't know if thats my rational side or my addict side.

Any advice or support?
 
Whatever you do, DO NOT TAKE ANY OTHER OPIATES, it will set you back to square one instantly. Keep smoking that weed and go easy on the xanax, that stuff is addictive as well but if you need it for sleep at time like this I understand completely. I was on suboxne for approx 4 years, quitting then relapsing, then quitting and relapsing again. I'm almost two months clean now, it wasn't easy and I still think about it all the time but, each day gets just a teensy bit easier than the last. The physical withdrawal lasted a little more than two weeks for me, everyone is different. In the past it only took one week, but since I was taking 14-16 mgs daily when I quit last, the withdrawals were a little more intense and lasted longer. Tapering was a good idea, if you've already made it three days than just keep going, I know it's hard, I've been there. I still find it hard to resist the urge to pick up the phone or go on facebook and get in touch with my connects. It's hard but it's worth it, I hated feeling like I needed something just to get out of bed. I felt weak, I felt like if any kind of disaster went down, I'd be running around looking for suboxone instead of gathering food and such. Good that you let your wife know, she can get on your ass when you're feeling like you need it again. Keep your head up man, I'm rooting for you.
 
Thanks for the encouragement, I really need it. The insomnia is the worst part IMO.
 
I think you tapered waaay too fast. Subs have a long half life you shouldn't decrease dosage except in smaller increments about once a month or two. Sounds like you're in acute w/ds, which are way worse IMO on subs than pills. Also bupe is a very powerful opiate jumping down from 1mg isn't great under the best of circumstances. Can you go to a dr. to get sub? Is that an option?
 
bamaman7 said:
Thanks for the encouragement, I really need it. The insomnia is the worst part IMO.
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Also if you just can't or won't go to the Doc, here's my experience. The insomnia is the first symptom to go away, after about a week and a half I was able to sleep somewhat regularly, at night, although I didn't have the aid of medication (benzos), which can help with this.

Sorry to say w/ds didn't really kick in hard until day 5-7 that's when the shit just starts coming out of your system due to its long half life. A shitload of anti-histamines and ibuprofen will help with the drainage, watery eyes, and body aches, somewhat. If you haven't needed immodium yet, you might want to acquire some. I was shitting with a vengance for 2-3 weeks, it's nothing nice. The good news is the physical stuff will end. I still crave opiates and have been off of subs for over a month - I tapered from 8mg to 1/2mg a day over the course of a year. This is why I think you might be jumping off too fast. From my experience the cravings don't go away but your body will feel normal again. There are some sites out there specifically about suboxone and suboxone w/ds which can be helpful.

As for me I've gotten ahold of some pills here and there, but it throws me right back into w/ds and that's unpleasant. I'm trying kratom. Just ordered my first shipment this evening.

Hope you feel better soon.
 
you tapered way too fast, 8mg should be done over several months imo, an if you're taking xanax or other benzos to sleep, watch out because they're even worse to get off than subs.
Maybe up your dose a bit until you are "comfortable", and taper down a lot slower, they make 0.4mg subs (that you can divide into 0.2mg) for tapering (especially the last 1mg or so), but you're not going to fins these on the street so you should really come clean with your wife and do this under medical supervision.
good luck to ya
 
The insomnia will go away, believe me. You've already started, and you need to go for this! :D Ditch every single phone number, ditch every contact you've ever had. They aren't friends, they are making money.

Good luck man, you can do it.
 
I would have suggested starting the taper over and doing it slower, but if you're already 4 days in, then stick with it.

From what I understand, a lot of treatment facilities and doctors are moving away from Suboxone maintenance for this very reason. When Suboxone first came out, there was no way to know what effects it would have long-term. Now we are all finding out that the withdrawal is worse than the opioids we used it to get off of. Last time I was in rehab, I was furious because at first, they said they weren't going to give me Suboxone AT ALL, but when they saw how bad I was detoxing 4 days later, and my blood pressure being 77/40 - 7 away from being considered heart failure, they said - they caved. But then I was furious because they weren't going to give me long-term Suboxone. It was for 3 days only: 4mg, 2mg, 2mg, then done.

It was the best thing they could have done for me. After my last dose of 2mg, I was literally counting the hours from that dose, absolutely convinced that the doctor was an idiot for not putting me on maintenance. "OK, it's been 24 hours, the withdrawals should start coming back now. Alright, 96 hours, so far so good. 144 hours, no withdrawals still!" It was awesome.

So yeah, stick with it. It's going to suck for a few more days, but believe me, you will be happy you did it when you're in the clear and no longer reliant on any drug to get by.
 
stick w/ the subs, dude. they saved my life and continue to do so. I am prescribed 16/MG/day but there are days where I will only take 8MG and feel fine the following morning. for the 15 bucks a month its costing me to picked up 60/subs its WELL WORTH IT! I was spending 100-200 daily between my dope and opiate days. so 15/mo is saving me a TON of money; and I am actually happy and doing well.

if you truly feel you can stay away form opiates and kick the subs, then by all means do so. but if you think you are going to head back to the opiates and potentially ruin you life again, then find the right Dr. and get a script, ASAP! you said yourself you've been doing good and you DIDNT EVEN HAVE A SCRIPT. imagine how easy it would be if you were scripted and under supervision to detox from the sub? much easier. go see a Sub doctor and make it happen. it's the BEST THING to EVER happen to me.
 
phatass said:
^^ really, a fast 3-4 day taper is the best way to go? i will keep that in mind, is this just from personal experience or do yo have any links yo could share?

then again i cold turkeyed methadone really easily, maybe because i replaced it with ghb
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I'm pretty sure that was the original intention with Buprenorphine. The quick taper has been proven to work, but it's just a matter of finding a doctor that prescribes Buprenorphine that knows how to do it, or is willing to lose a long term customer with it..

I was on Buprenorphine for about 5 years.. I wasn't aware of the quick tapering method in the beginning, so by the time I learned of it, I was addicted to Buprenorphine..doesn't really work well through being addicted to Buprenorphine..

As long as you find a doctor that will set out a plan, or will follow your intentions with Buprenorphine, you'll be fine with any amount of time on it. My problem was being on Subutex. Regardless that the actual chemistry of Naloxone and Buprenorphine was set in stone, the stigma that Naloxone will prevent drug abuse was set in a steel alloy.. I had troubles staying consistent with Subutex. I did well coping with having to find a new doctor every few months ( I don't know if they were scared of more intense DEA monitoring or what the reasons were), but eventually all that inconsistency caught up to me.

It started with adding Alprazolam at the third year to aid with the random withdrawals from having to find a new doctor. Then, Alprazolam became part of the aid from the extreme tolerance I gained to Buprenorphine. Then, it became an everyday thing to mix both medications, with random Zanaflex doses. I pretty much fucked myself, but the doctor inconsistency definitely added fuel to the fire.. I am an addict..I'll justify and come up with an excuse for anything. The last year, I would burn through my prescription and cut into my girlfriend's prescription in two weeks, withdrawal for two weeks, and I would repeat that cycle. Before I went to rehab, there were days I would take easily 20mg of Alprazolam and some days >56mg of Buprenorphine.. I just liked things in my nose I guess..cuz that's all it did for me..

I think once you start on a taper, continue until you're done. I started with tapers with different doctors, and that would all get fucked up for some reason. So when I would go to a new doctor, I would tell them where I was at, but I would always get started over. It is extremely hard to have an addict take just a fraction of what they're prescribed to do it themselves. I didn't voice that, because I saw the opportunity at an attempt to get fucked up. A failed attempt, but it was still attempted by me on more than one occasion..
 
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