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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Sub Doctor Question- is this normal?

Bkbanger

Bkbanger

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Messages
47
So I bit the bullet and finally scheduled and saw a doc for my heroin addiction. I've heard of many ppl going in and getting a sub script plus some support meds on the first visit. However, today I went in, did the standard first time talk, gave blood and urine. They did not write me anything today which was frustrating. Thry said to come back in 2 days once thry analyze my samples... Understandable I guess, and then said thry would write me thr script then, and want to administer my first dose there at the office.

Does this sound normal? Should I stay the course? Or do you guys think I'm wasting my time and maybe this guy is just trying to make more money and/or jerk me around. He's a normal pcp and sees families but is certified to prescribe sub and was the manager of a methadone clinic for 10 years.

I guess what makes me second guess it all is that at first he seemed like he just didn't want to treat me... He tried suggesting an in patient detox, then methadone clinic... Blah blah it was like o had to insist that I wanted to go on subs.

Also- I'm hoping to get some meds to help with the crippling anxiety, hot cold flashes and pain I still experience while on subs for a while. Is there any good way to inquire about these without looking like I'm seeking drugs? I suppose I am but only to make sure I give this a full go, and stack myself up in a way that pushes toward success with the whole thing.

Anyway...thoughts? Thanks All!
 
Everyone, doctor wise is, different. Stay the course. Two days, is not a big deal, compared to what you've been through. Plus, sounds like the want patients that are real. I used to get pissed at doctors that didn't take care of business, but this guy sounds like he seen a lot and that is who you want.
 
Speed King said:
Everyone, doctor wise is, different. Stay the course. Two days, is not a big deal, compared to what you've been through. Plus, sounds like the want patients that are real. I used to get pissed at doctors that didn't take care of business, but this guy sounds like he seen a lot and that is who you want.
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Yea you're right. I suppose I know this and agree with him it was just discouraging at the time. It took years of thinking about doing it and finally I worked myself up to go- and was mentally ready to start things off then and therevand just got pissy when my idea wasn't reality.

Thanks for replying!
 
You got it. Just remember patience is a virtue. If I can be of any support, feel free to PM. Speed King
 
Thanks man. I'll probably be needing it in the coming weeks. In your experience do docs prescribe support meds like I mentioned earlier?
 
Depends on who, what, when where, why, IMO. You are pleasant and up front, you may get more help.
 
This seems normal. I found a doc close by me off the suboxone website and it was a strange process I'll admit. He told me not to come in unless I'm showing withdrawal symptoms. Actually twice this has happened. Once while participating in an outpatient program and once directly from the doctor. They are also probably going to want you to have fairly regular check ups. Your docs got experience with this stuff though so I would stick with him and jump through the hoops. It will be worth it.

Edit: Jesus, for I've used it 3 separate times. The 3rd time being when I was inpatient. They gave me a multi vitamin, b-12 in the morning, damn I'm blanking! Well with a little research in sure one of us can find a list of OTC stuff that can be very effective helping with PAWS.

I'm surprised he tried to refer you to a methadone clinic over sub. That seems crazy to me.
 
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I wanted to add to this. The doctors Ive seen can be as thorough as yours, more so if they choose. Some going into background checks, some.charge extra in the beginning visits to ensure you dont bounce around. .but others wont care as much.. of course im in FL could be diff where you are, also the meds I have found effective from going to detox is clonidine (which is to lower blood pressure) also aids in sleep and it is best done at the doctor w/ Rx like Ambien Lunesta or Sonata, or and in my experience you cant have them all obviously a Benzo is a great tool when its able to be contained within your Physician directed instructions. Also if you appreciate getting better plan a way off subs once you feel stabilized for enough time to fix major issues in life (if any exist)_ Subs gave me a platform to get away from pills, at first. Now Im taking adderall(very much my biggest helper) Klonopin and Subutex which I found works best at low doses of under 2-4mg. Dont worry dropping from high doses(12-16+) down to 6-8 happens with much more Ease.. this is always relative over time.
Aside from that Exercise can change so much about who we are give it some serious thought you may add years to your life.
M Il Tecnico
PS. Another med is lyrica(pregabalyn)(sp?), or gabapentin (neurontin)
Watch out for super high intake of Buprenorphine it just is not worth it IME so even if you and your doctor will work out the best schedule dont be afraid to ask questions and if you dont like your treatment theres likely other doctors to try but remember it is what you make it.
Good luck
 
Thanks.. I went back today and still didn't get it. Doc wanted me to go get the script and then come back and take the first dose in front of him, I went and the pharmacy was out of subs... I went back and just heard nonsense from the doc after waiting for 4 hours so I walked out. I know that wasn't helpful for myself but I'm just loosing patience... Money and time are not things I have a surplus of and I overall don't feel great about this doc. It just feels like he's making it so motherfucking difficult- hello I'm looking for help and this feeling could change.. I want to act now while I have the means and motivation and this whole thing has been so discouraging. I've gone twice, spend mad money and wasted time and I have absolutely nothing to show for it. I'm planning on looking for a different doctor tomorrow, thinking of going the psychiatrist route. At least I can have the results of my recent blood and urine samples sent over. That actually is the only thing I've done that's productive out of the last two visits.


I just want subs, clonidine, something for pain/rls and preferably a long acting benzo. During subs my anxiety is so bad I have no appetite and can't sleep. I told that to the doc- not in such a seeking way, and he kind of just didn't respond, and didn't write any scripts. I guess I'm just getting frustrated bc I know of several ppl who saw a doc and walked out with what they need- while they needed it! Crazy right? Going to a doctor, and he takes an interest in promptly helping you? I guess I'm asking for just way too much. I'm getting closer and closer to saying fuck it and just going back to what has always worked for me.
 
Maybe just try a different sub doc. Everyone is different. I've heard of sub docs that make you jump through flaming hoops (like the one you describe) to ones that carelessly RX 24mg's of bupe to the dome every day for years (obviously this is unnecessary but I'm just saying, there are tons of different personalities among them).

Some of them are scared shirtless of the DEA coming down on them hard, some of them are cavalier and act like they're giving you sugar pills.

You want to find the latter, get your supply lines set up, then proceed to take FAR less mgs/day than he says you should (no one should need more than 16mg on day 1 and most can drop with no discomfort to 8mg on day 2 and proceed with a rapid taper from there, stockpiling the surplus subs that are left over).
 
I agree. In my years of addiction I've self dosed sub on and off a million times and I'm a huge advocate of low doses. Even at the peak of my addiction (35+ bags of GOOD dope a day) I could get ok off 4mg in the morning and 2 at night. I can't imagine what world someone needs 18, 24..ect mg to stay well. I really think it just speaks to the doctors lack of knowledge, experience or his unwillingness to learn from his patients and just upholding the bullshit drug reps from BR feed them.

Anyway, my urine analysis comes in tomorrow so I'm hoping the office will call me in. If not I'm going to try someone else. Even though I only need 8 mg max (and That's just for the first couple days) I would mind being prescribed more just to hold onto. My other big thing is hopefully getting other support meds for anxiety, hot flashes and pain/rls... Which have always been the death of me. I'm not sure what this doc thinks of that but I'm not going to feel very good about starting a maintenance program without help here. I'm not looking to get high or seeking meds I truly just know what I'll face with my body and want the best shot here. I've used clonidine a few times and it just helps me so much, I hope I can get that at least. Sitting at work freezing and sweating and eventually feeling dirty and gross is just terrible. Anxiety wise I don't get panic Attacks but rather have a steady level throughout that day that infringes on my appetite and makes me miserable on top of being sick.


Anyway, thank you all for responding I'm home sick and pulling out my hair here and this and your suggestions help a lot. I'm beyond frustrated and have no one really to confide in about this or ask advice based on experience so it does mean a lot. I'll report back with what happens tomorrow.
 
Good luck, man. It's never fun to be jerked around( well sometimes). Worst case just go to another one. I found the one I got off the suboxone website. Check it out.
 
Going back today (4th visit) after picking up my script from the pharmacy. Doc went with the 4/1mg ones, and will induce me with one of those today. I mentioned my need to support meds to the nurse practitioner who said "she'll take care of me" last visit and proceeded not to, I'm thinking they want to get me on sub and see for themselves what symptoms I still have. I think that makes sense... I don't want to keep asking.

Anyone with experience remember how their beginning stages went and if you were given support meds after being induced on sub? Really just curious what's normal and what's not
 
unfortunately, the DEA has my PCP scared so thoroughly that I have to use the illicit market for my comfort meds :(
 
Phil.McKeer said:
unfortunately, the DEA has my PCP scared so thoroughly that I have to use the illicit market for my comfort meds :(
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Really? Even like clonidine or something like that? Why would the DEA have a problem with that? As far as I know that and other meds are perfectly acceptable for usage in opiate detox..?
 
And I'd go that route too if needed, but now I'll e getting piss tested
 
Nope. The second I bring up a condition I have or a drug I think would work well for me and bring up it's name (I know I shouldn't do this because it is considered drug-seeking behavior, and I refrained from doing it for opioids and benzos - the only meds I suggested by name were gabapentin and clonidine, neither of which are really drugs of abuse), he hand-waves it off as if I either have no clue what I'm talking about or he doesn't even want to discuss it.

This first happened when I got on Obamacare and finally got to see a doctor about my herniated disc (it was a bulging disc in 2005, then ruptured during a jiu-jitsu rolling session in 2010). I told him how I'd been in pain for years and had no insurance and had suffered so much, etc. I even showed him the MRI's taken in '05 when the disc was bulging to prove I wasn't lying to try to scam painkillers. I didn't even suggest a drug name, I just said I want something on hand not to take every day but just for those days when the pain spikes (I don't know why but sometimes it's just a 1/10 on the pain scale, sometimes it jumps up to 7/10 and stays there for 48hrs+). I also offered to take another MRI to show him how much my disc has degenerated since the original MRI's were taken.

He not only dismissed taking a new MRI, but prescribed me an NSAID for the pain. Jerk. I was hoping for Oxy (in the form of Percocet 5's, I was expecting) or if not that then hydrocodone, or at the very least carisoprodol or SOMETHING that actually causes analgesia, but no. I got an NSAID. I have a painful injury that NEVER heals, for chrissakes. My problem isn't inflammation, it's the fact that my main nerve is being pressed on by the oozing inner "gel" that is leaking out of my ruptured L5 disc and impinging on the spinal nerve, for crying out loud.

When I tried to tell him I have anxiety issues (was trying to get a benzo) he told me to find a psychiatrist to talk to, and I think his exact words were "drugs aren't the best solution for that". They might not be the best, but they are A solution, aren't they, Einstein?

When I asked him for gabapentin (I used having RLS as an excuse, saying it kept me up all night and caused insomnia) he suggested some OTC shit and refused to prescribe me gabapentin which should be handed out like candy IMO.

I'm sure if I ask him for clonidine he'll look at me as if I have three heads and say "you don't have high blood pressure, you don't need that". He's not really my doctor, he's more of a gatekeeper for the pharmaceutical drug supply (for whatever illogical reason he has brewing in his brain).

Edit: This is the primary reason I took up using H. People will do anything they can to escape pain. Pain sucks. I'd rather get out of the pain now and pay later for the withdrawal than to suffer a debilitating injury located at the very core of my body (and often branching down my legs) 24 hours a day, 7 days a week - having that pain everyday since I was 26 has also had side effects like depression. If he'd just have given me a limited supply of even just hydrocodone that I could take periodically when the pain went up, I'd never even have touched H. The DEA's hard-on for popping doctors who prescribe opioids is the cause of a lot of pain and misery, at least in my situation.

Edit 2: I am young and have a certain look about me. I don't look like an everyday member of society. This might have something to do with his reluctance to prescribe me anything abusable. I may have also landed myself on some kind of drug-seeker list, but I don't know what I did to get that, since I hadn't been to a hospital or talked to a doctor for years before I got my PCP with Obamacare.
 
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Damn man I'm sorry to hear that he sounds like an ass. Perhaps find a new doc? I'm picking up my subs now then going to the doc and I'll report with any success
 
Ok so I finally got my subs. I am prescribed 4/1mg once a day. Getting more would have been nice, but I. Just don't need it. I have to go back in in 2 days to check in with the doc and if I'm still feeling anxiety, sweats, and pain I'll tell him and hopefully get the regiment I'm mentally set up for.

Any advice or past experience with getting these? We're hey prescribed at the time of sub or later, if symptoms persisted?
 
idk maybe my sub doctor is just all about the money but I pissed dirty just about every time I went there and she still gave me a script for a months worth of 8mg suboxone which is more than enough for me.

I agree with the point about taking less suboxone than they give you. theres no reason to take more than 8mg a day even with the worst addiction, most people will be fine with 4mg a day tbh. if you want to use suboxone to keep well but still be able to get high, using 2mg will lose the blocking effect in 24 hours
 
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