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Miscellaneous Strychnine's association with peyote and LSD

"If a lower dose is ingested, other symptoms begin to develop, including seizures, cramping, stiffness,[42] hypervigilance, and agitation.[43] Seizures caused by strychnine poisoning can start as early as 15 minutes after exposure and last 12–24 hours. They are often triggered by sights, sounds, or touch and can cause other adverse symptoms, including hyperthermia, rhabdomyolysis, myoglobinuric kidney failure, metabolic acidosis, and respiratory acidosis. During seizures, mydriasis (abnormal dilation), exophthalmos (protrusion of the eyes), and nystagmus (involuntary eye movements) may occur.[30]

As strychnine poisoning progresses, tachycardia (rapid heart beat), hypertension (high blood pressure), tachypnea (rapid breathing), cyanosis (blue discoloration), diaphoresis (sweating), water-electrolyte imbalance, leukocytosis (high number of white blood cells), trismus (lockjaw), risus sardonicus (spasm of the facial muscles), and opisthotonus (dramatic spasm of the back muscles, causing arching of the back and neck) can occur. In rare cases, the affected person may experience nausea or vomiting.[30]

The proximate cause of death in strychnine poisoning can be cardiac arrest, respiratory failure, multiple organ failure, or brain damage.[30]

For occupational exposures to strychnine, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health have set exposure limits at 0.15 mg/m3 over an 8-hour work day.[2]

Because strychnine produces some of the most dramatic and painful symptoms of any known toxic reaction, strychnine poisoning is often portrayed in literature and film including authors Agatha Christie and Arthur Conan Doyle.[51]


There is no antidote for strychnine poisoning"


So you basically convulse until you die from lack of oxygen because your lungs are spasming. All they can do is treat symptoms and let you ride it out.

Someone who knows more than me, isn't the therapeutic window kinda narrow as well?
 
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Yeah, I'm not liking this. My body feels tense and stiff. Does indeed feel like a psilocybin microdose, but the somatic effects are too overbearing. This stuff should only be microdosed (that was my intention, but my product did not come with dosage instructions)!
 
Yeah, I'm not liking this. My body feels tense and stiff. Does indeed feel like a psilocybin microdose, but the somatic effects are too overbearing. This stuff should only be microdosed (that was my intention, but my product did not come with dosage instructions)!
Check back in when all is said and done.
 
Not feeling as tense, sickly, or discoordinated. It leveled off surprisingly quickly. The tenseness seems to be the analgesia (similar to compression socks). Psilocybin microdose was an exaggeration: I did have a slight change in vision, which went away, and I had comeup anxiety, so it just seemed like psilocybin for a few minutes. Right now I just have a slight increase in mental clarity and mild a tenseness/fever-like feeling.

Based on what I've experienced, I won't try Nux vomica again, but look forward to trying isolated strychnine and dimethoxystrychnine — with more caution.
 
Glycine receptors are quite weird. They are ligand gated chloride channels, like GABA A receptors, although in embryos and fetuses they act as excitatory receptor.

Unlike GABA receptors, I can’t find any info on agonists being relaxing or recreational; in fact, beyond simple amino acids like glycine there isn’t a lot of development of agonists.

The receptors are concentrated in places like the brain stem, and dorsal root ganglia in the spinal cord, which might explain this. Messing too much with brain stem activity can be quite lethal. I skimmed a review saying that companies had looked at modulators to treat pain the drugs had too many side effects to be used (this makes sense, dorsal root ganglia are information centers taking pain signals from the body, modulating them, and then routing them to the brain).

One last trivial thing is that a number of channel blocking GABA A antagonists like picrotoxin, also block the glycine receptors. I guess this makes sense because they are both chloride channels, but that would be something quite nasty to ingest; certainly far worse than strychnine.

It is good you are proceeding carefully, Red22.
 
I've experimented with a lot of poison plants before and most of them are NOT worth taking. You end up feeling restless, itchy as hell and talking to people who aren't even there. There called poison plants because they make you feel sick.
 
So, the manufacturer of this stuff has a bit of a problem with false advertising. The photo of the vial showed a dark liquid, but the stuff I received was transparent and only slightly brown when drawn into a clear syringe. Thus, this vial only had a few doses. This is what caused me to overdose: after getting no effects from 2 ½ syringes, I couldn't imagine that a few more would be risky, but little did I know that it had a slow onset, but let me tell you, rinsing the remnant of the vial today (~3 syringes) has me feeling excellent. The difference between yesterday's dose and today's is like night-and-day. I have a decent painkilling effect, and a very grounded, mild stimulant effect (i.e. better than caffeine, which I don't like). The body high actually reminds me of LSD's, but with more oomph, like LSD combined with a benzo or opioid (not talking about their potent psychological effects).

This is one of the best legal highs I've ever tried and I can't wait to get more.

I'm so taken by how clean this lower dose feels, when yesterday's dose made me feel sick and made me regret using it (in contrast, today I'm wishing I had more).

Mostly somatic, seems like it gives a minor increase in mental clarity and mood, but that could just be my response to the pleasant body high.

This definitely feels like the comedown of an illicit substance and I bet its a great potentiator of such substances!
 
So, the manufacturer of this stuff has a bit of a problem with false advertising. The photo of the vial showed a dark liquid, but the stuff I received was transparent and only slightly brown when drawn into a clear syringe. Thus, this vial only had a few doses. This is what caused me to overdose: after getting no effects from 2 ½ syringes, I couldn't imagine that a few more would be risky, but little did I know that it had a slow onset, but let me tell you, rinsing the remnant of the vial today (~3 syringes) has me feeling excellent. The difference between yesterday's dose and today's is like night-and-day. I have a decent painkilling effect, and a very grounded, mild stimulant effect (i.e. better than caffeine, which I don't like). The body high actually reminds me of LSD's, but with more oomph, like LSD combined with a benzo or opioid (not talking about their potent psychological effects).

This is one of the best legal highs I've ever tried and I can't wait to get more.

I'm so taken by how clean this lower dose feels, when yesterday's dose made me feel sick and made me regret using it (in contrast, today I'm wishing I had more).

Mostly somatic, seems like it gives a minor increase in mental clarity and mood, but that could just be my response to the pleasant body high.

This definitely feels like the comedown of an illicit substance and I bet its a great potentiator of such substances!
I wonder if anybody actually tried cutting LSD with strychnine, seeing that it was in rat poison at the time. The initial somatic effects of LSD caused many or all of those claims, of course.
 
So, the manufacturer of this stuff has a bit of a problem with false advertising. The photo of the vial showed a dark liquid, but the stuff I received was transparent and only slightly brown when drawn into a clear syringe. Thus, this vial only had a few doses. This is what caused me to overdose: after getting no effects from 2 ½ syringes, I couldn't imagine that a few more would be risky, but little did I know that it had a slow onset, but let me tell you, rinsing the remnant of the vial today (~3 syringes) has me feeling excellent. The difference between yesterday's dose and today's is like night-and-day. I have a decent painkilling effect, and a very grounded, mild stimulant effect (i.e. better than caffeine, which I don't like). The body high actually reminds me of LSD's, but with more oomph, like LSD combined with a benzo or opioid (not talking about their potent psychological effects).

This is one of the best legal highs I've ever tried and I can't wait to get more.

I'm so taken by how clean this lower dose feels, when yesterday's dose made me feel sick and made me regret using it (in contrast, today I'm wishing I had more).

Mostly somatic, seems like it gives a minor increase in mental clarity and mood, but that could just be my response to the pleasant body high.

This definitely feels like the comedown of an illicit substance and I bet its a great potentiator of such substances!

Why would you willingly poison yourself?

I wonder if anybody actually tried cutting LSD with strychnine, seeing that it was in rat poison at the time. The initial somatic effects of LSD caused many or all of those claims, of course.

There was rumors of this happening but no confirmed cases
 
Why would you willingly poison yourself?
Who says it's simply a poison?

"Strychnine and brucine although being toxic in nature have remarkable therapeutic action."

TLC Determination of Strychnine and Brucine of Strychnos nux vomica in Ayurveda and Homeopathy Drugs. Rathi A, Srivastava N, Khatoon S, Rawat A. Chromatographia 67(7):607-613, Apr 2008. DOI: 10.1365/s10337-008-0556-z

There was rumors of this happening but no confirmed cases

Indeed, see reference #1 from the first post:

Strychnine and other enduring myths: Expert and user folklore surrounding LSD (Presti, D. E., Beck, J. E.) / Psychoactive sacramentals: Essays on entheogens and religion. T. B. Roberts (Ed.), 2001, San Francisco: Council on Spiritual Practices (pages 125-137)
 
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In all respect we all poison ourselves..daily. without knowing it even..
Anyhow yes there is a fine line in homeopathy and poison and your dream must had been Tim Leary's term of a Futant...your intuitive self dreamed of seizure to warn you to not be a dumb fuck.

I wake every morning and repeat the same dumb fuck shit but THIS is dangerously close to some homeopathy that scales to far on the poison death side a bit too closely...why not take 4-aco-dmt??? It's around legal in shops as "amanita" I think you would enjoy this much better or maybe nutmeg is more up your alley..?
 
Psychedelics don't have the analgesia that this has and they aren't dirt cheap and they aren't 100% legal. However, I do look forward to potentiating psychedelics with it, as Viṣakaṇṭha says:

Its my favorite stimulant (which is fascinating bc im not even really a huge fan of stimulants to begin with), it's my favorite nootropic, and it works wonders as far as the potentiation of psychedelics.

 
Finally got some positive feedback about this:

“This has my interest for decades, I'd love to pick up a gram of strychnine nitrate.” (From The Shroomery)

Hamilton Morris also said he wanted to try strychnine. He mentioned it in a podcast. Someone said something like, 'yeah, drugs aren't poisons, like cyanide and strychnine,' and Hamilton replied something like, 'strychnine actually has legitamite psychoactive effects in low doses, and I'd like to try it."
 
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It's just a stupid urban myth. Never any truth to it just wankers hearing other wankers saying something and then repeating it.

The deadly dose is about 2mg per kilo of bodyweight. Try putting 160mg of strychnine into a blotter.
 
It is a rather excellent stimulant! 69ron's descriptions are pretty spot-on. It is an entactogen, sharpens the mind and senses, and is a superior aphrodisiac. It takes about 45 minutes to an hour for full effects to kick in, which then last for maybe three hours more. In the doses I've been taking there is almost no edginess at all, and I can go to sleep easily 4 hours after taking it. Small doses can be used to keep the effects going, I'll start out with around 30mg worth, top off with 10mg after 4 hours, 10mg more after another few hours. I've yet to exceed 50mg worth in a day.

...

I also suspect that Strychnine does somewhat lessen a hangover. Before combining it with alcohol I did some research and found an old study suggesting it may alleviate some of alcohol's toxic effects. The other day I took 35mg worth of tincture, drank a bottle of wine - with a large meal and over a few hours - then my wife and I went home, had some amazing sex, and I woke up about 5 hours later to go to work. Normally I would have been quite tired all day after that but the only ill effects I felt were dry mouth from the wine. I actually felt pretty fantastic all day!

I'm not trying to advocate that people start using this stuff, or start pounding liquor and expecting this stuff to ward off a hangover. The wine thing may have been a fluke, I did eat a big meal and drink plenty of water. This is something that should be approached with the utmost caution. But so far I've really been enjoying it, I've tried it probably 12-15 times. For those who have plenty of experience with extracts/tinctures and very good self-control this is an excellent drug. And talk about cheap! This stuff is pennies a dose, easily the cheapest drug I have ever paid for, cheaper than a cup of coffee by far. If you assume the seeds you get are the highest potency possible, start with very low doses and work up until you find the sweet spot, this can be a fantastic substance.

One last thing, I'm a runner and read long ago about Thomas Hicks winning the 1904 Olympic marathon by taking strychnine. Well, I couldn't resist...earlier today I was feeling pretty tired. I took 30mg worth of seed and ran about 5 miles. I kept getting the urge to stop - it's a warm, humid day and I usually run in the morning, today I did it at 4pm when it was good and hot. Normally I probably would have had to stop a couple times for 30 seconds or so but every time I got the urge, my feet seemed to keep on going. I am not a believer in performance enhancers because I've had a couple experiences over doing it with kratom + exercise, no serious injuries but definitely some strain I didn't need or benefit from. I don't think you should use substances to push your body further when you're training. But like I said, I couldn't resist giving this a try.
rawbeer, Apr 19, 2015, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-1597356
It makes my vision seem amazingly clear, a sunny day is just breathtaking. 69ron's descriptions really hit the nail on the head, it is sort of like a very very minor, "nootropic" dose of LSD. Nothing psychedelic but with the sensory enhancement.

I won't get into source discussion but let's just say the big commercial growers are in India. You'll be waiting around forever thinking you got ripped off but wondering if trying to get a few bucks back from India is worth it. Slow, slow delivery seems common.

The more I get to know it the more I like it. At the right dose you barely notice it's a stimulant it's so smooth, but the effects are all there. And I've yet to experience any issues trying to sleep just a few hours later, nothing like a cup of coffee would do to me. It's become a favorite afternoon stimulant, like kratom is for me, for this reason.

Just be super fucking careful, and enjoy!
rawbeer, Apr 29, 2015, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-1601575


Strychnos nux vomica,
At the right dose sharpens the senses, visual and aural acuity, clarity of thought and speech, colours are brighter more ease to do complex mathematics. Does not fuck your appetite or circadian rythm. Counteracts many of the negative aspects of opium and opioid use for which it was widely prescribed for several centuries.

Stimulates appeptite and perastalisis. Clears the liver.

You all missed it, I think, but when you get tired of fucking around with the chicken feed weak stuff its time to meet the master blaster. Strychnine baby. THe strychnine man of the 1920s was the best dressed man in sleazy streets of Soho London. He was still functional when all the coke heads, where edgy and coming down, when the morphine crowd were in the gutter.

Seriously this plant extract if you know how to use it is a very healthy, noortopic stimulant. It does have a safe window of use and was used in western medicine for centuries. It still is widely used in the east. It is banned from olympic sports for good reason

The main reason it was banned from all but the cardiac ward of major western hospitals (where it still is a last resort) was it is such an efficient hard the trace killer when given in overdose.
Ze Baboon, Jul 26, 2009, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/herbs-that-are-energizing-stimulating.354918/page-2#post-638158
ubeRAGEoUS, it's as nice as that post makes it sound. Honestly. No place sells it anymore so you can be sure people are not spreading sales talk, trying to make it sound nicer than it is. No one buys it. No one sells it. At least not where I live. It's still used in India and China and a few other places around there. It still pops up as a sports enhancing drug in those parts of the world.

Strychnine was once extremely popular as a stimulant. If it wasn't so easy to OD on it, it would still be popular. The downside is its potency. It's just way too potent. You can feel 100 micrograms of it. It's nearly as potent as LSD is. It also has effects that are mind expanding, much like LSD has, but it's not hallucinogenic at all. It makes you see clearer, hear better, improves your sense of touch, things smell stronger. Sex is better. It makes you more aware of things around you. It improves your memory and concentration. It doesn't have the edginess of caffeine. It's one of the best stimulants there is, but also the most toxic. That's the downside.

If there was a stimulant as nice as strychnine is that was not as toxic, it would be SUPER POPULAR. The problem with strychnine is that a good dose is 500 micrograms. A large dose is 3 milligrams. A deadly dose is about 30 mg or so. 10 times more than a large dose and it can be fatal. That's a MAJOR problem. When it was popular, too many people would OD on it. As little as 5 mg can cause unpleasant effects. It's just too dangerous for the average person to buy at the local store. Too many people like to overdo drugs and not follow the directions on the box. With strychnine, you cannot take it like it's caffeine. You have to be very careful about taking accurate doses or you'll be in for it.

I think if people capped it at 1 mg, and never took more than 1 mg, it would still be available. Too many people abuse these kinds of things thinking things like, "if 1 pill is good 10 should give me much more energy!", so they would take ten 3 mg pills, and then die shortly after (or just have painful convulsions if they were lucky).
69Ron, Jan 31, 2010, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-757000


Strychnine is one of the nicest stimulants there is. I was introduced to it many years ago, and liked it a lot, but then it disappeared. It’s now next to impossible to get. However, you can make an extract of nux vomica seeds which contain strychnine as their main active alkaloid. Nux vomica seeds are still available and apparently legal in most countries. A highly diluted tincture of nux vomica is a safe way to use it.

I have recently made a tincture of nux vomica containing approximately 243 micrograms of strychnine per ml. His favorite dose is 2 ml, which contains about 486 micrograms of strychnine. At that dose the effects are fantastic. It’s my favorite stimulant. I wish you could still buy nux vomica tinctures at the local herb store. As long as the dose of strychnine is 4 mg or lower, there are no toxic symptoms present. Since I use slightly less than 0.5 mg, he’s well within the safety limits.

All of what you hear about it’s stimulant effects are true. It makes you see clearer, hear better, increases your sence of smell, and even your sense of touch is enhanced. It’s almost like LSD in that way. It’s nootropic effects are also quite obvious. I can remember the details of things that happened on days he used nux vomica better than on days he didn’t use it. It really does improve memory and concentration.

It’s only downside is it’s narrow safe dose range. While doses of 0.05-4 mg are safe, a dose of 50 mg is likely to kill a person. Some people are very sensitive to its toxic effects, and for that reason, when it was commonly used in medicine many years ago, the highest safe dose was said to be 6.4 mg. There is one unverifiable death of someone who took only 5 mg (probably by injection in which its more toxic), but in general the average person would need 50 mg orally for it to be fatal. Considering you can get very decent stimulant and nootropic effects with doses as small as 0.5 mg (500 micrograms), as long as you don’t go higher, it’s relatively safe to use. With the typical fatal human adult dose being 50 mg, that's 100 times larger than an effective dose of 500 micrograms. If you need it stronger than 500 micrograms, you can simply take 500 micrograms of it with coffee. That’ll really perk you up. There's no need to take more than 500 micrograms and it would be unwise to take more than 2 mg.
69Ron, Sep 11, 2009, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/herbs-that-are-energizing-stimulating.354918/page-2#post-665366


Strychnine is [my] favorite stimulant. [I use] 500 micrograms at most. Often just 100 micrograms is enough.
69Ron, Jan 31, 2010, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-756959


I have just purchased some nux vomica seeds. To be honest I had initially scoffed when I came across this thread, but upon thinking about it I've decided that this could have potential utility as a nootropic if used correctly. I intend to use 96ron's tek. I'll share my results in a few weeks.
malsat, Apr 29, 2015, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-1601569


Interestingly though, smoking powdered nux-vomica seeds is not very effective according to a test I ran a few years ago. It seems as though strychnine is decomposed in pyrolysis to some extent.
Powerful Medicine, Jan 29, 2015, https://drugs-forum.com/threads/nux-vomica-how-to-use.116031/#post-1564897
 
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Strychnine may be endogenous:

“Strychnine is being reported in mammalian brain for the first time. Serum of patients with epilepsy, Parkinson's disease (PD) and manic depressive psychosis (MDP) was also examined for the presence of these alkaloids. Serum of control subjects did not show the presence of any of these alkaloids, while that of all 3 patients groups contained strychnine.”

Endogenous alkaloids in the brain of rats loaded with tyrosine/tryptophan & in the serum of patients of neurodegenerative & psychiatric disorders. Arun, P., Ravikumar, A., Leelamma, S., Kurup, P. A. 1998. The Indian Journal of Medical Research, 107, 231–238. PMID: 9670621
 
Strychnine may be endogenous:

“Strychnine is being reported in mammalian brain for the first time. Serum of patients with epilepsy, Parkinson's disease (PD) and manic depressive psychosis (MDP) was also examined for the presence of these alkaloids. Serum of control subjects did not show the presence of any of these alkaloids, while that of all 3 patients groups contained strychnine.”

Endogenous alkaloids in the brain of rats loaded with tyrosine/tryptophan & in the serum of patients of neurodegenerative & psychiatric disorders. Arun, P., Ravikumar, A., Leelamma, S., Kurup, P. A. 1998. The Indian Journal of Medical Research, 107, 231–238. PMID: 9670621
Even though rat brains are very different from ours, and things that apply to them might not apply to human brains, doesn't that study correlate strychnine presence with neurodegenerative disorders?
I wonder if recreational, low-dose strychnine use might be neurotoxic akin to higher doses? Or possibly the low presence of strychnine might be one of multiple mechanisms of action for the development of these disorders in rats?
 
Strychnine may be endogenous:

“Strychnine is being reported in mammalian brain for the first time. Serum of patients with epilepsy, Parkinson's disease (PD) and manic depressive psychosis (MDP) was also examined for the presence of these alkaloids. Serum of control subjects did not show the presence of any of these alkaloids, while that of all 3 patients groups contained strychnine.”

Endogenous alkaloids in the brain of rats loaded with tyrosine/tryptophan & in the serum of patients of neurodegenerative & psychiatric disorders. Arun, P., Ravikumar, A., Leelamma, S., Kurup, P. A. 1998. The Indian Journal of Medical Research, 107, 231–238. PMID: 9670621
This paper is extremely dubious.

They only used MS without any MS2 peaks, which means they only looked at molecules with similar total properties, rather than positively identifying the molecules via decomposition and analysis of subsequent peaks.

Furthermore, strychnine and morphine undergo some pretty specialized reactions during biosynthesis by plants, which we lack the enzymes to do.

With claims of novel compounds being found in humans, I generally want to see a proposed biosynthetic route to not just assume that they contaminated their samples/performed a bad analysis.

Also this paper is 26 years old. If something is real in science, people tend to build off of that work. If this is the latest paper that makes this claim, it was likely made in error, as a mammalian biosynthetic route to strychnine would be a fairly big deal (especially if involved in disease as they claim).
 
I remember hearing the acid rumors in junior high all the whacky tales of bad acid the Eastern European immigrants in the projects would tell us lol rat poison on bad tabs wtf a bad tab = bad trip and it could be WICKED STRONG

Even if you took regular acid you were legally insane after seven times or something haha a

I don't think someone would put strychnine on a blotter but wtf man who knows you're buying acid from a dealer named G in the projects the only thing you know about the gangster is his beeper number this was like '99 or 2000

Even the clean stuff could be too much with one too many mentally speaking.

I thought we had to test for NBOMe now anyways like I planned on a test kit for the show I recently tried to drive to didn't quite want to drive that far it turned out

One kid Sasha was told he dropped acid on his eyeballs haha wtf dude in ninth grade

Jesse apparently would go too far and be whacked out even when it wore off he stopped and had kids it looks like
 
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