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Strange reaction between piracetam choline and caffeine?

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MrFister

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Hi all, from what I remember piracetam works through manipulating how acetylcholine functions in the body. I'm not sure the specifics if anyone could fill me in. But i've noticed strange interactions that I don't hear of anyone having with choline supplements and low dose caffeine. First off, my piracetam regimen is 1 gram at morning and before sleeping. With choline i'll just feel overwhelmingly sad, no matter how small of a dose I take. I've heard that this happens in larger doses, but the most i've taken 250 mg once at breakfast. Now with caffeine, I feel incredibly anxious and even very weak and irritable; this never happens to me without taking piracetam. I'm theorizing it has something to do with increased PNS stimulation due to something about piracetam, and i'd love if anyone could shed some insight into my situation.
 
I thought piracetam was suspected to work on the AMPA system? In any case, I don't know what is causing the side effects you mention, other than it may be a sign that the combination is unhealthy. Best avoid it if it makes you feel ill.
 
When I took adderall and piracetam in the same day once, I felt way way way too overstimulated, and this was taking 10 mgs of generic instant release adderall, which typically does almost nothing to me. I would think it to be a result of the caffeine and piracetam.
 
You could always try boosting your serotonin/dopamine/adrenaline levels with amino acids. I take L-Tyrosine, L-Tryptophan and Rhodiola Rosea along with Piracetam, Choline and Caffeine, among other things, and haven't had any symptoms of depression. On the contrary, it's lifted me out of a long term depression. One thing to remember when developing a nootropic/supplement stack is that, aside from resolving deficiencies, things need to be brought up or down in unison. In other words, increase acetylcholine levels without doing the same for the things which affect and are affected by it and you will have side effects. Increase them all in the right ratio and you'll feel better than you did before.
 
4g piracetam + 4g choline citrate in the morning usually makes me quite ready. caffeine, natural sources "raw thyroid", piracetam, choline, potassium, magnesium is a power combination. kicks ass. it makes dissociates much weaker (except for the DRI effect from, say, methoxetamine), and the same combo makes empathogen-type drugs stronger. stimulants are uncomfortable, as well (but when were they ever that good? maybe once in a blue moon.)

i tried 4g piracetam twice a day, but it made me feel loopy. the shit is basically too gross to drink twice a day. so i went down to once a day with caffeine all the time. coffee, fresh roasted in the popcorn popper. between the natural sources "raw thyroid", the piracetam and the caffeine, this combination has all kinds of excellent effects for work, concentration, memory, mood, everything.

NS "raw thyroid" is powerful stuff all by itself. it's glandular thyroid, spleen, thymus extract from new zealand cows or some such. tends to be a bit on the strong side, but after taking it for a few months, i found it tended to increase my appetite, metabolism, focus, and drive. i take one pill, 4 or 5 days a week. i work out harder on it, my attitude becomes a bit tougher too. i guess that's what thyroid hormones are supposed to do. NS also makes "raw adrenal" which has a large dose of adrenal extract.do not take this at the same time as "raw thyroid" unless you want to get into fights with everyone, and everything.

most people have thyroid and magnesium deficiencies (well, except for the methcathinone users) and don't realize it. low thyroid function is common in western society, mostly due to massive wheat in the diet coupled with auto-immune reaction (hashimoto's thyroidits is an extreme version of this dysfunction)
 
phosphatidyl choline and piracetam messes me up in a way that's hard to describe -- something between a panic attack, light headedness and vertigo, but not really any of those things on their own.
 
atrollappears said:
It sure does, but it also upregulates lots of ion channels, including AMPA. It's all connected I think.
Click to expand...

This may be a dumb question, but why does this stuff feel serotonergic to me? I started retaking it (or restarted taking it) after reading this thread yestarday and I already feel like I've been on two weeks of sertraline.
 
235360287471352662 said:
This may be a dumb question, but why does this stuff feel serotonergic to me? I started retaking it (or restarted taking it) after reading this thread yestarday and I already feel like I've been on two weeks of sertraline.
Click to expand...

Serotonin does have an effect on the glutamate system. So does pretty much everything else, but I think serotonin's is relatively direct. I don't know the specifics though.
They could also just feel similar 8)
 
Does anyone know what piracetam's duration of action is? I'm trying to decide between twice a day and thrice a day administration.
 
235360287471352662 said:
Does anyone know what piracetam's duration of action is? I'm trying to decide between twice a day and thrice a day administration.
Click to expand...

IMO, approximately 90 minutes the effect of the piracetam wears off. This is often extended to up to 4 hours when I take it irregularly. But on daily use, it fairly quick to come and go. That's why I usually just drink a liter over a 4 hour period in the morning.
 
nuke said:
phosphatidyl choline and piracetam messes me up in a way that's hard to describe -- something between a panic attack, light headedness and vertigo, but not really any of those things on their own.
Click to expand...

straight choline citrate, on the other hand, goes really well with piracetam in a 1:1 ratio
 
I recently read an article in scientific american which briefly discussed a new study that showed increased levels of acytlcholine in the brain can cause depression, and found that the antichlorogenic drug scopolamine caused remission of depression. Hmmmm maybe I'll have to try smoking a bowl of datura next time I'm feeling down!
 
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