Stimulants causing temporary exotropia

[DS_]

When I've taken either Mephedrone or MDPV. I have one either point if a direction (Left/Right) and I end up with a serious case of double vision and no sense of depth perception at all.

Do you know what might cause this and is there a way to stop it from happening?

 

[an rud is annamh]

This isn't an ADD-level answer, but a colleague of mine who is a doctor once described this to me as happening to a patient due to acute lisinopril in an elderly man. It was a drug prescribed due to some sort of "old-people heart syndrome", and went away after he was switched to a different drug. The reason it came up is because he gets esotropia and anisocoria from MDMA. (which makes him look mental)

I've never seen the effect in real life though. Can you do this voluntarily? I can only increase my interpupillary distance voluntarily by looking "up and to the side", not purely horizontally - as if they aren't allowed move that way.

 

[DJHENRU]

on my highest adderall dosage of like 140 mgs I remember looking at especially the "twinkling" of stars, OH MY GOD such distortion, quite pretty though(weird 2d/3d color splitting of Red/Blue)

 

[DS_]

Still nothing.

 

[negrogesic]

The drugs you are referring to, can cause dose-dependent vasocontriction, and in some cases idiopathic vasodilation, particularly the 4-MMC, which can lead to some of the visual disturbances which you are describing (especially with repeated, extended-binge usage, and the addition of alcohol). Or perhaps NE mediated increased levels of extracellular glutamate, which could certainly cause some perceptual changes.

I agree however, that this is especially pronounced with racemic amphetamine or adderal, suggesting that perhaps it is NE mediated, again, increasing extracellular levels of excitatory glutamate, perhaps reaching the cone pathway, causing some visual disturbances. It is possible that there is some NE mediated or metabolite α2-adrenergic activation. Racemic amphetamine but generally not dextroamphetamine, as does d,l-MPH, but generally not detromethyphenidate, seem to cause more visual disturbance, which again would point the finger at NE, but its never as simple as "one" monoamine or neurotransmitter. I think we can only speculate at this point.

To reduce this, perhaps take clonidine, and definitely AVOID alcohol while taking these substances.

Obviously, there are better understood 5-HT related explanations, however as far as I know, MDPV has little affinity for the SERT.

 

[DS_]

Thanks for the reply mate. I'll give it a bash and get back to you.

 

[sackynut]

ocasionally when I do some stims, and get extremely high from sativa MJ, I lose depth perception and my vision starts flashing at like 15 frames per second. I cant drive while it happens or anything, but its more related to panic attack. It sounds like yours is slightly more complicated though.

 

[negrogesic]

Most of these effects are dose dependent. How much 4-MMC, MDPV do take in a "session" (I realize it is very hard to do one "line" of MDPV without feeling the need to redose, it is quite addictive like intranasal dextro-methylphenidate (I prefer D-MPH over MDPV, largely because of pharmacokinetic differences, MDPV lasts too long, focalin is short). However, while both "addictive", they are not nearly as subjectively "euphoric" as cocaine, this is without a doubt due to clear affinity for the SERT, something lacking in both MPH and MDPV.

MDPV also seems to have a higher "body load" (subjective toxicity), and unlike even high doses of D-MPH I never experience pronounced bruxism, whereas I remember a particular instance with MDPV, after the insufflation of one 24mg line, I experienced some very pronounced bruxism, and my jaws were sore for a couple days, and I even had to put in a mouth guard because of the severity (even while high dose methamphetamine I never experience it to this severity). Massive doses of oral adderal has done this before, again, suggesting that this is also NE mediated (d-amphetamine technically has a higher affinity for the NE transporter in terms of nM (look at chart, its like ~7nM).

Again, avoid alcohol with these compounds, and perhaps, CAREFULLY, try some clonidine at low doses.......