Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
I'd really wish we didn't recommend each other to take Steroids, in the spirit of HR...
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H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist
Steroid Discussion ~ ver. Healthy Living
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Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Sure, and so are the effects of Heroin. But we don't go around BL recommending others use Heroin now, do we? At least, not under my watch if it happened in a forum I mod.
I see your point. However, I think given the right situation, with the knowledge that the other person will consider and research the question independently, a person could recommend both heroin and/or steroids. Consequently, Words is probably the only forum where you could get away with this recommendation on a regular basis.
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200ng/dl range is not normal for a young male, so testosterone therapy could be within the realm of "healthy living" for Fjones...
Fjones
Bluelighter
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If my levels tested at 200 I think he would have put me on replacement therapy immediately.
Mine tested at 362 or osmething like that.
Dont forget that there is a steroid forum here.
Thats good to hear, this way the muscles you build will be yours to keep forever.
sunyata
Ex-Bluelighter
why do you say this? If somebody's goal is to increase muscular hypertrophy supplementing with exogenous testosterone (more than your own balls could ever hope to produce) is the ticket. Not everybody's goal is to be a yogi in the forest meditating on the fundamental unity of reality. Some people want to get jacked the fuck out and love the confidence and power that comes from steroid use. Some not all (thats why I said its up to everybody to make up their own mind and I only said what I think and did not recommend steroids). Control of one's mind is key though. Admittedly it is hard
\) - one has to be firm in one's resolve. It can be done. Mostly people have trouble with their first cycle and then the second and beyond are much smoother (so I am told at least). I would definitely suggest meditation or pranayama while 'on' (and off too).Increasing testosterone levels increases the level you can overfeed yourself without gaining much fat. So if you can bulk naturally at 300 calories above maintenance with a half gram of test and a half gram of EQ you can bulk at about 1000 calories above maintenance. So, thats 700 calories more that will go to muscle building.
(X x Y)/3,500 = Z
X = calories above maintenance
y = days on steroid supplementation
Z = ~pounds of muscle built during cycle
so in our example for a 14 week cycle if you run 1k calories above maintenance (different for everybody depending on how much lean mass you have) the formula would be
(1000x98)/3500 = 28
So roughly 28 pounds of muscle is possible in a 3.5 month cycle with fresh androgen receptors and plenty of steroid and weight lifting.
Somebody natural could never HOPE to produce that much muscle in 3 and half months. They could quite easily gain 28 pounds in that time but A LOT would be fat. Probably roughly half or more (considering they could bulk at 300-400 above maintenance while lifting ferociously). I seriously doubt anybody on this board would be happy with 14 pounds of fat gain. Nobody but a strongman powerlifter would probably accept that amount of fat gain. Naturally a person can hope to gain about 4 pounds of muscle a month (so about 15 pounds in 3.5 months). Thats if they are hitting their diet and lifting perfectly and no mess-ups. So you gain about double you would natural if you run steroids.
As far as keeping your gains, this requires a perfect PCT and an intensity in your lifting that goes beyond your steroid use. Of course you lose gains if you run a shitty PCT and stop lifting after you stop juicing. And, of course you lose your gains if you gain above your genetic potential (the amount of muscle mass you have/keep depends on your natural levels of testosterone. more muscle mass requires higher levels of testosterone to maintain with regular protein uptake for repair). But most guys are far from their genetic potential and have little worry about that aspect.
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Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Because of things like this:
why do you say this? If somebody's goal is to increase muscular hypertrophy supplementing with exogenous testosterone (more than your own balls could ever hope to produce) is the ticket. Not everybody's goal is to be a yogi in the forest meditating on the fundamental unity of reality. Some people want to get jacked the fuck out and love the confidence and power that comes from steroid use. Some not all (thats why I said its up to everybody to make up their own mind and I only said what I think and did not recommend steroids). Control of one's mind is key though. Admittedly it is hard
Increasing testosterone levels increases the level you can overfeed yourself without gaining much fat. So if you can bulk naturally at 300 calories above maintenance with a half gram of test and a half gram of EQ you can bulk at about 1000 calories above maintenance. So, thats 700 calories more that will go to muscle building.
(X x Y)/3,500 = Z
X = calories above maintenance
y = days on steroid supplementation
Z = ~pounds of muscle built during cycle
so in our example for a 14 week cycle if you run 1k calories above maintenance (different for everybody depending on how much lean mass you have) the formula would be
(1000x98)/3500 = 28
So roughly 28 pounds of muscle is possible in a 3.5 month cycle with fresh androgen receptors and plenty of steroid and weight lifting.
Somebody natural could never HOPE to produce that much muscle in 3 and half months. They could quite easily gain 28 pounds in that time but A LOT would be fat. Probably roughly half or more (considering they could bulk at 300-400 above maintenance while lifting ferociously). I seriously doubt anybody on this board would be happy with 14 pounds of fat gain. Nobody but a strongman powerlifter would probably accept that amount of fat gain. Naturally a person can hope to gain about 4 pounds of muscle a month (so about 15 pounds in 3.5 months). Thats if they are hitting their diet and lifting perfectly and no mess-ups. So you gain about double you would natural if you run steroids.
As far as keeping your gains, this requires a perfect PCT and an intensity in your lifting that goes beyond your steroid use. Of course you lose gains if you run a shitty PCT and stop lifting after you stop juicing. And, of course you lose your gains if you gain above your genetic potential (the amount of muscle mass you have/keep depends on your natural levels of testosterone. more muscle mass requires higher levels of testosterone to maintain with regular protein uptake for repair). But most guys are far from their genetic potential and have little worry about that aspect.
Really, Andy, do whatever you want to yourself. I don't want to argue with you again. Let's just be friends and not talk about steroids, the same way I am friends with Rachamim and we don't talk about Palestine.
sunyata
Ex-Bluelighter
I didn't know there were rules that I could cheat at to the development of my own physical body.
It's a shortcut. In many people's minds that's cheating. In other people's minds its using every method available. To each unto their own, but let me put my opinion this way: if anabolic steroids were healthy (I'm not going to bother getting into therapeutic steroids like prednisone and the cortisones), you wouldn't need to take such care after a series to keep from completely fucking your natural test generation and losing any gains that you've made.
That said, if you do take the appropriate care, then you can effectively cram what, 3-6 months of lean mass gain into 6 weeks? For some that's worth it, for others it's not. However, in every the case of anyone training for anything competitive it is considered cheating. Period. That's not to say that it doesn't happen, but there are rules in competitive sport against it. Personal use just for lay people training for their own non-competitive benefit is up to that person's own judgement.
This would make a great discussion thread.
That said, if you do take the appropriate care, then you can effectively cram what, 3-6 months of lean mass gain into 6 weeks? For some that's worth it, for others it's not. However, in every the case of anyone training for anything competitive it is considered cheating. Period. That's not to say that it doesn't happen, but there are rules in competitive sport against it. Personal use just for lay people training for their own non-competitive benefit is up to that person's own judgement.
This would make a great discussion thread.
You can use steroids if you want but you probably wont get as much respect. Are you the type of person that admits to using steroids when ppl ask you in person or do you deny that you use them. Most ppl on roids will deny there on them, why? Because there embarrassed? Because they want ppl to believe that there natural? Scared of getting arrested by police? Who knows, its probably a combination of things.
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sunyata
Ex-Bluelighter
after my first 12 week cycle, I learned to never tell people you are 'on'. They don't understand and your friends will be nervous/alarmed/worried for you. There is no reason to put yourself through lectures from naive people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about. Its like telling somebody you had an amazing trip on acid last night. They most often become shocked if they don't use acid themselves. It really unsettles them that you are manipulating your bodymind with a chemical they have heard is extremely powerful and devastating to one's health.
Steroids actually are extremely healthy. There is a reason why they are given to wasting disease patients. They boost red blood cell count and strengthen the immune system. They increase protein shuttling into musculature and can in some cases increase joint fluids (synovial fluid) which can bring relief from tendonitis, bursitis, etc. They can also solve sexual dysfunction and regulate circadian rhythms. Bodybuilders use them because they increase muscular nitrogen stores which has a result of pulling more protein into the muscle fiber (and there the protein can be added onto the existing muscle in order to increase size, ie muscular hypertrophy). Glucose is also much more easily shuttled into muscle fibers (stored as glycogen) which can further increase hypertrophy.
There is a tremendous lack of knowledge about steroids, scare tactics the US government has used against us to make us more docile and sheep-like. They don't want us juicing of course because it turns us into strong, confident, independent people. Same reason psychedelics are banned. Thats not good for a country like ours that runs on the effort of sheep.
A proper PCT is necessary, but thats common sense. You are shutting your natural production of testosterone down completely for 9 weeks out of a 12 week cycle. It takes some time for luetinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone to trigger the process of regeneration in your testicles in order for testosterone to be created. Modern PCTs are excellent though and after a month of being 'off' the steroid user has regained their natural testosterone levels, testicle size, and sex drive. I can attest to that!
Maria, I wouldn't mind our posts being split off into another thread here in HL. I took some time writing this post and the posts above, so I would like to see the discussion continued. If its not too much trouble for you. Otherwise I'll start another thread and quote all the relavant posts.
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Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
sunyata
Ex-Bluelighter
hehe maybe those who know me well may very well tell something is up. To be honest I think most of my problems with my first cycle came about because I didn't run an anti-estrogen during the cycle. Its not testosterone that makes a person an asshole, its the high levels of estrogen. Its basically like you're PMSing if you don't use an anti-E to lower estrogen levels. As soon as I introduced that problems were solved with mood/arrogance problem.
Also its a maturity issue 8)
Also its a maturity issue 8)
mariacallas
Bluelight Crew
Your wish is my command. I've split off all the off-topic steroid posts here. Fire away! Be nice boys
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