statins and kratom (and other drugs)

[chippermonk]

So my doctor wants me to start taking statins (whether I need to or should is another matter). I read online that kratom is a strong inhibitor of CYP3A4, and that this can cause serum levels of lipitor to go up and can potentially increase the likelihood of side effects from the lipitor. I'm kinda assuming that if you keep either or both your lipitor and kratom dosages low, then you are less likely to have shitty side effects but I'm not sure how well I can follow that rule. I DON'T want lipitor side effects. This also raises the issue of what other drug interactions can happen, with either of them, due to CYP effects (I don't really understand CYP issues that well in general)
Thanks for any advice on this

 

[Direwolf131]

Kratom is a very crappy substance, it is contra-indicated with damn near every other medication one can be prescribed! Its a very poor choice for most over the age of 30-35, where blood pressure meds usually begin to be prescribed, it has negative interactions with damn near every needed medication people take, seriously, I will not even attempt listing them all, it suffices that most likely if you take a prescription med it cannot be taken with kratom in any form!

 

[Direwolf131]

One med it interacts with are the thiazides (water pills) prescribed for blood pressure, apparently due to kratom doing the exact opposite, provoking water retention! Take prinivil (lisinopril) and you can scratch that too! But one of the absolute worst and truly deal breaking interactions is with zofran, which is superb for nausea, total contra-indication between the two substances, the best anti-nausea med and a herb notorious for its vomit inducing emetic characteristics.

My advice is steer clear of kratom absent your MD telling you otherwise, kratom is largely harmless on its own, but many people have ended up in the ER, suffering very nasty med interactions, some of the fatal. Kratom is good for one thing to my mind, filling a missing dose of tramadol or two for no more than 10 days time! Thats not sucking it down by the gram, but very carefully replacing morning dose of 50mg tram with four caps (2-grams) of kratom, and never together, always allow 2-3 hours between it and the next tramadol dose!

I strongly caution you to run any, and all meds you currently take due to necessity, against kratom interactions, you will likely be shocked at how many are contra-indicated! Good luck mate...

 

[idontremember]

Just in general, if you have thyroid issues (not saying you do, general you) lots of 'herbal' drugs mess with your thyroid/thyroid meds. Sometimes that's not a bad thing, if you aren't medicated properly a lot of these are potentiators for synthroid etc, bit if you're hyperthyroidism, it can be really, really bad. One of the main problems with Kratom is that you're never really sure if it has anything else in it. A while ago people were dying in I think Sweden, because they were buying Kratos that unknowingly had tramadol in it and were having seizures. Just be very, very careful with certain meds/health conditions and Kratom and buy it from reputable vendors.

 

[chippermonk]

One med it interacts with are the thiazides (water pills) prescribed for blood pressure, apparently due to kratom doing the exact opposite, provoking water retention! Take prinivil (lisinopril) and you can scratch that too! But one of the absolute worst and truly deal breaking interactions is with zofran, which is superb for nausea, total contra-indication between the two substances, the best anti-nausea med and a herb notorious for its vomit inducing emetic characteristics.

My advice is steer clear of kratom absent your MD telling you otherwise, kratom is largely harmless on its own, but many people have ended up in the ER, suffering very nasty med interactions, some of the fatal. Kratom is good for one thing to my mind, filling a missing dose of tramadol or two for no more than 10 days time! Thats not sucking it down by the gram, but very carefully replacing morning dose of 50mg tram with four caps (2-grams) of kratom, and never together, always allow 2-3 hours between it and the next tramadol dose!

I strongly caution you to run any, and all meds you currently take due to necessity, against kratom interactions, you will likely be shocked at how many are contra-indicated! Good luck mate...

Thanks for the advice ( and thanks to others who replied) Fortunately I'm not taking blood pressure meds or much of anything else. Plus my statin dose is only 10 mg and I take only around 3-5 g of kratom, and not daily. So drug levels are low.
In an ideal world I would talk to my doctor but I know he would automatically tell me no without even giving it any thought as to whether it really matters or not. I appreciate any advice on this , and also if anyone knows a good source of unbiased info on it elsewhere that I could find, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks

 

[Allylbenzene]

Did you end up taking statins?
Did your doctor advise you take CoQ10 and vitamin K2 to mitigate the statins effects?

(image from here)

Cholesterol is a precursor for all hormones:

Statins stop more than just the production of cholesterol, they also stop production of dolichol and CoQ10:

 

[chippermonk]

Thanks for the advice. I have been taking them for awhile now, after dragging my feet about it. They did advise me on on the CoQ10 but said nothing about the K2. However I did some reading saying it interfered with your body's synthesis of k2, so I've been taking k2 (90 mcg) plus eating k2 rich foods like sauerkraut, eggs, hard European cheeses, fermented foods, all of which I like anyhow.
I take 40 mg of atorvastin now, so not a super high dose. I think I mentioned 3-5g of kratom in my initial post but I hardly ever take it anymore these days, and never more than 2.5g. I don't take any prescribed drugs other than the statins. Honestly, my cholesterol was never "too high", other than HDL tending towards too low, and my health habits are very good, nothing to change. It was just the damn arteriosclerosis, which I guess is maybe hereditary. Annoying and I question whether I really need to take it. I don't have any really clear side effects but it's hard to say. My sex drive has been down but I've also been depressed quite a bit lately and that can be complicated issue ( I won't bore anyone with the details)
Anyhow, I have to admit I'm kind of confused by all those connections you pointed out. I had read about k2 but that's it. I'm going to have to sit down and puzzle your info out. Any other good supplements you recommend?
Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Annoying and I question whether I really need to take it. I don't have any really clear side effects but it's hard to say. My sex drive has been down but I've also been depressed quite a bit lately and that can be complicated issue...

You're right to question it! I would say that any "side"effects are actually direct effects caused by what statins are designed to do.

Anyhow, I have to admit I'm kind of confused by all those connections you pointed out. I'm going to have to sit down and puzzle your info out.

So the 1st picture shows what mitochondria do (each cell contains thousands) - they turn cholesterol into protective hormones. The body makes cholesterol for brain tissue, nerve insulation and as a precursor for all our hormones (see 2nd picture). The 3rd picture shows the 3 things that statin drugs prevent from being made - cholesterol, dolichol, CoQ10.

This post describes the 3 key hormones that mitochondria normally create from cholesterol (as shown in the 1st picture) - progesterone, pregnenolone & DHEA.

Progesterone was found to be the basic hormone of adaptation and of resistance to stress
...
Pregnenolone, which is the raw material for producing many of the hormones of stress and adaptation.
Pregnenolone is largely converted into two other "youth-associated" protective hormones, progesterone and DHEA.