N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
SSRI's- anticholinergic effect?
swilow
Bluelight Crew
I've read that some of the side effects of SSRI treatment are caused by an anticholinergic reaction in the body. This was mentioned as a reason for sweaty palms, confusion, dreaminess when compounds are kicking in.
Does anyone know anything of this?
the chem in question was fluoxetine which I take, so this off interest to me
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
To my knowledge, the trycyclics had anti-cholinergic effects, most prominent among them being Amitryptiline (if I spelled that right).
The new SSRIs like flouxetine do not have significant anticholinergic effects, I believe.
Blue_Phlame
Bluelight Crew
I propose a bump for more info on this topic.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Well I recently discovered that OTC anticholinergics like Chlorpheniramine are in fact SSRIs as well, and that this one especially is the offspring of the very first SSRI invented (forgot the name, had a Z in it).
Reminisant B
Greenlighter
Jamshyd said:
To be pedantic chlorpheniramine can't really be called an SSRI. [Key word being selective, in selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors, as it's more potent at histamine atagonism relatively]
It does act as an SRI though as mentioned. [minimally & at irrelevent concentrations clinically compared to anti-histamine effects]
Yeah I think all the SSRIs do have slight antimuscarinic activity, everything of course relative (and in general far less than the tricyclics). There is probably a study somewhere comparing the antimuscarinic side effects of anti-depressants. [?just a guess]
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
I Stand corrected then.
Although I could swear i read somewhere bout people self-medicating depression with it and the results compared favourably to paroxitine...
Kolmogorov
Bluelighter
Yes, the SSRIs in general are weak muscarinic antagonists, nothing compared with olds tricyclics like amitryptiline and the like. But I don´t know if the effect is large enough to be perceived.
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
Diphenhydramine is actually the founding father of SSRIs, it was the basis for fluoxetine I think. The full paper about it is available online, I forget the name, though.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
I was under the impression that Zimilidine was the first SSRI.
I also had the impression that Diphenhydramine had little affinity for 5-HT and NA but moderate affinity for DA reuptake inhibition.
I could be wrong though.
swilow
Bluelight Crew
^Dipenhydramine was the basis molecule for synthing prozac, or at least the model for it. Incidentally, the wikipedia entries for these things appear to have channged; I know I had read that dipenhydramine was an SSRI, and that prozac was synthed from it. The informations changed.
Ham-milton
Bluelighter
yeah, that's right, it was prozac.
Dondante
Bluelighter
Some irrelevant tidbits:
Tricyclics were accidentally discovered while screening new phenothiazine antipsychotics (e.g. thorazine), hence the dirty side effect profile: antimuscarinic, antiadrenergic, and antihistaminergic effects.
MAOIs were also accidentally discovered when trying to treat tuberculosis with isoniazid.
Funny how drug discovery works ... or used to at least.
swilow
Bluelight Crew
^Now its find a disease to fit a drug for....
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Kolmogorov said:
While I refuse to have anything to do with SSRIs because of limp noodle syndrome (bloody effective chemical castration!), the antimuscarinic effects are almost non-existant compared with the tricyclics. While I was taking asstd SSRIs for my SAD, I never made the sort of spectacular Mr Magoo type of mistake I did with lofepramine, namely putting my hand out at a bus stop to signal the bus to stop, only to find it was actually a refuse collection wagon (the buses & bin wagons in Co Durham are the same colour). Got some very strange looks from fellow prospective passengers... 
That said, I still prefer lofepramine, complete with dry mouth and blurred vision to the chemical impotence of paroxetine, fluoxetine etc
Blue_Phlame
Bluelight Crew
^ as a user of SSRI's I can say that the LNS comes on when you're starting the medication or upping your dose. I've been on citalopram 20mg for a couple months now, and erection dysfunctions are not as much of a bother as I would have supposed they would have been.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
^ I did with paroxetine & methylphenidate - it worked, but not that well (you've got to remember I'm an old codger compared with most of you lot and as you get older, it doesn't always perform when requested anyways. That's probably why I rather like MDPV!
)
swilow
Bluelight Crew
^Lol :D I've been on zoloft for a while, pretty much free from it now. At the height of it, I was taking 200mg/day and that was sure a dampner. However, as with all SSRI side effects it wore off; that said, I also reduced the dose to 75mg/d...still had trouble on occaision, but plenty of weed and imagination go a long way (pun not intended). Gotta love the roaring libido thats cumming back though....
mitragyna
Bluelighter
I would agree with this. I think this is generally true in many people taking SSRI's. I have been taking 120 mg of Cymbalta daily for a few months now and my LNS is almost nonexistent.
Blue_Phlame said:
I think I remember hearing that SNRI's have less sexual side effects since the additional Norepinephrine counteracts this problem (to an extent). I could be completely wrong though...
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Read that and had a little chuckle at the image of swillow being the sexual equivalent of Vlad the Impaler for young chickies he lures back to his lair! (if you've seen the dacefloor scene in 'Jacob's Ladder', you'll understaNd what I'm on about!! )