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SSRI´s to counteract serotonergic action?

T

Tokkotai

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
40
Location
germany
So, ive read that taking Fluoxetin during the mdma comedown can be a very effective way to counteract its neurotoxicity as well as its aftereffects, as it would block the effects as well as reducing the oxidative stress caused by mdma.

Ive asked myself, if these findings can be alligned to other SSRI´s (and possible SNRI´s and tricyclic antidepressants) and other drugs that work on serotonine.

Lets say for example taking venlafaxine during a 6-apb comedown.

What about the dangers of serotonine syndrome?
 
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Ive read that. i guess it was in thedea.org (the name is a joke its a good site), about taking SSRIs late in the roll to prevent bad stuff.

My laymans guess would be that the bad effects pos-mdma are causes by too much 5ht release (thatd be why massive MDMA doses lead to those terrible LTCs) , and that an SSRI with a higher SERT affinity would prevent mdmas action and any further release that would be bad/too much.

May be move this to NPD or MED? Its an interesting topic and id like to see what other more knowledgeable posters would have to say.
 
Maybe MDMA should be considered instead not the best option anymore imo.
If it's that bad when your coming down, it seems a bit counterproductive to keep using it.
If you're really into this, I would be more selective.

MDMA is not at all what it used to be. Not ecstasy as it used to be.
There are simply too many subtypes and some of them considered quite dangerous.
it's like a Russian roulette nowadays.
 
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my source is erowid

"The time course of damaging events in rats can be seen by administering SSRIs, such as fluoxetine and citalopram, after MDMA. Pretreatment with fluoxetine (Prozac) or citalopram (Celexa) has been shown to block the neurotoxicity of MDMA (Battaglia, 1988; Schmidt 1987; 1990; Shankaran, 1999a), probably by blocking interactions of MDMA with SERT. More interestingly, fluoxetine remains almost fully protective if given 3 or 4 hours after MDMA. By 4 hours, most of the MDMA-induced release of 5-HT and DA has already occurred (Gough, 1991; Hiramatsu, 1990) and increases in extracellular free radicals (Colado, 1997b; Shankaran, 1999a) and lipid peroxidation (the alteration of fat molecules by free radicals) (Colado, 1997a) can be measured. Nevertheless, the administration of fluoxetine at this point decreases subsequent extracellular oxidative stress (Shankaran, 1999a) and long-term 5-HT depletions (Schmidt, 1987; Shankaran, 1999a). Fluoxetine will still be partially protective if given 6 hours after MDMA but has no protective effect 12 hours after administration (Schmidt, 1987). This shows that neurotoxic MDMA regimens initiate a series of events that become increasingly damaging between 3 and 12 hours after drug administration in rats."
Click to expand...

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_neurotoxicity1.shtml#timecourse

It is thought that this oxidative stress also leads to the neurodegenerative destruction of 5-HT axons which is observed to occur with large doses of MDMA in animals. Anti-oxidants, anti-dopaminergic agents, agents which block intracellular calcium increases and pre- or post- treatment (up to 6 hours) with fluoxetine all block MDMA's neurotoxicity.
Click to expand...

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info7.shtml

The last articles mostly refer to fluoxetine´s attribute for beeing a good antioxidant.

I have never tried to do this, as i have no access to fluoxetine and to be honest, i dont really like mdma because it makes me a bit too much confinding to people i dont know as well as it causes serious depressions for a whole week if i redose (i like to be high for the whole night, so usually i redose).
I really like 5 MAPB, Methylone and 6 APB. They give me a good time and dont cause me to be so whacked out on strangers but still cause depressions the week after usage for me (taking Antioxidants, Vitamins, Magnesium, Tryptophane etc. usually doesnt cure this for me).

neurotic said:
My laymans guess would be that the bad effects pos-mdma are causes by too much 5ht release (thatd be why massive MDMA doses lead to those terrible LTCs) , and that an SSRI with a higher SERT affinity would prevent mdmas action and any further release that would be bad/too much.
Click to expand...
That is exactly what i thought, but the article you linked seems to put this into perspective. But the depressions caused by mdma and other drugs that work on SERT are linked to the depletion of 5HT aren´t they? So by blocking the long time depletion of 5HT wouldn´t the depressions be less severe?
 
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Tokkotai said:
So, ive read that taking Fluoxetin during the mdma comedown can be a very effective way to counteract its neurotoxicity as well as its aftereffects, as it would block the effects as well as reducing the oxidative stress caused by mdma.

Ive asked myself, if these findings can be alligned to other SSRI´s (and possible SNRI´s and tricyclic antidepressants) and other drugs that work on serotonine.

Lets say for example taking venlafaxine during a 6-apb comedown.

What about the dangers of serotonine syndrome?
Click to expand...

When down that road of mdma abuse I was totally into this theory and have no clue if it worked or not, for neuroprotection. But at that time the info said to take the SSRI at the 5/6 hour piont after impact, theoratically blocking the serotonin reuptake sites, and preventing possible damage.

Effectively this stopped my roll as the SSRI kicked in instantly, any pill you ingest after this is useless. So that seems beneficial at least for the abusers among us. So for these guys an gals I could probably promote it and it would still be harm reduction. But there are some flawes SSRI's all have have diff peaks, fluox a very slow one I believe. And there affinyties differ a lot, from peronal experience I can say Paroxetine, Fluvoxamine and Fluoxetine all effectively stopped my rolls. But they also made SWIM (only rightious use of SWIM yeah) sick to the stomach.

Don't do it Venlafaxine isn't even a SSRI so I advise NO. Stick with anti-oxidants and responseable use 1 per 2/ 3 months is way better. Good luck Tokkotai.

SSRI's will not cause serotonin syndrom theoratically, they will prevent if any.
 
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