Sponsors

[closeau]

I've had great sponsers over the years who have guided me in the right direction. I've been in AA for 9 years with relapses but I'm thinking of switching to NA. I need something fresh and my recent problems have been narcotics so that will be good cause round here AA is pretty strict and don't like you qualifiying as an addict and try to limit "outside issues" when sharing. Sponsers are vital to any anonymous program. As long as they share from their experience only and suggest things to do and not order.

 

[szuko000]

To be completely honest everyone needs to share their story as they need to hear others. Being human is all about shared experiences and learning from the mistakes of others while sharing your own successes and failures. People fail to realize so much of life is shooting from the hip, you just try things so many things hoping you hit something great you love, and its important to share the road it took in order to save someone the trouble you went through to achieve that answer. It can be as simple as saying "no, methadone is great it saved my life, i would never consider choosing dope over methadone." that sentence can save someones life. I think as people who got sober it is important to try to return the favor as this is how WE save lives, we save each other because society wont save us.

I think everyone needs some form of meeting. I was just saying to my girlfriend the other day that I get a lot of my "meetings" through posts like this reading other addicts experiences and trying to help people get on methadone maybe? I put that as my "treatment goal" for the methadone program it says "to use my unique experience with methadone to convince others to try to get themselves into treatment" I am my s/o sponsor and she mine, bluelight is my meetings and i get to attend where ever and whenever.

I think if you feel lost you should always go to a meeting before anything else we all need guidance and grounding sometimes

 

[closeau]

Said well szuko000

 

[manboychef]

said extremely well....basically anything you can do to stop from active use, or to pull yourself out of relapse mentality is extremely helpful.

I struggled so hard with the whole AA/NA thing when I first got sober in syracuse. I just couldn't buy into all that, but I did learn a lot about myself...and that when people told their stories, there was so much of myself in each of them. I also took the steps that meant the most to me and practice them daily. Step four and step twelve being the most important to me. I have a tendency to not see my role in things that have happened, but writing out those columns seriously puts things in perspective for me. For example...I was a chronic womanizer...when I finally wrote all that down and what effect I may have had on these women I actually wept. How could I be so callous and uncaring? It makes it so much easier to realize that what is on the page "was me, and will always be a part of me", however it makes it a lot easier for me to take responsibility for the feelings I have caused because I always put using first. Yes sometimes it pains me, but I take out my notebook and read my step four....then I read the thoughts and feelings I had afterwords and the reactions I had when I truly made amends. It is almost like a book that describes the healing process that is individual to me.

I dunno....each person is different, each person has different things that drove them to seek escape in drugs...find that reason and your well on your way. I live by this ethos everyday "Know Thyself."

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I wish that I could be more into the idea of NA. I don't think that drugs have contributed positively to my life, with maybe a couple exceptions, and definitely not in the present time period. I'm not comfortable with what I do on a regular basis and wish I could make some positive changes in my life. But I see drug use as a symptom of the problem, not the cause...even if I were to become sober and quit all drugs, I'd still be left with the complex mental/emotional problems that pre-dated drugs and probably heavily influenced my patterns of use. And NA doesn't really do anything about that, it doesn't seem like...for them drug use is the problem, the bad shit in your life is a symptom of that problem (which for many is probably true), and the solution is sobriety. I don't think I want to be sober, though...I'd just like to stop using drugs like heroin and start getting some normal friends, and possibly work on my other issues which are not directly related to drugs... :/

plus the idea of trying to integrate myself into a group of complete strangers, which I'm integrating based on the fact that I use illegal narcotics...I don't really like that idea either

 

[Jabberwocky]

+1 for szuko000's last post up there. Said very, very well. And I could not agree more with how I feel an obligation to share my story so that another in the position I was in may benefit from it. That said, I also feel an obligation not to monopolize my recovery, or generalize all people into some (ultimately) arbitrary category and say it's the only way. Haha, I mean no one would take me seriously, given the nature of my story, but you get the idea. Such a thing would be a disservice to us all. Anyways, I'm happy to have read szuko000 post.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I finally broke down and went to a meeting tonight.

The people there were very kind and welcoming to me, which I really appreciated. I'm glad I went. It's good to get some new perspectives every once in a while

 

[nuttynutskin]

But I see drug use as a symptom of the problem, not the cause...even if I were to become sober and quit all drugs, I'd still be left with the complex mental/emotional problems that pre-dated drugs and probably heavily influenced my patterns of use. And NA doesn't really do anything about that

Assuming that AA is the same, I totally agree. If I wasn't depressed all the time and happy I don't think drinking would've become a problem and I would be able to control it.

I don't think I want to be sober, though...I'd just like to stop using drugs like heroin and start getting some normal friends, and possibly work on my other issues which are not directly related to drugs... :/

For me alcohol is my only problem but I go through phases. Sometimes I want to be sober, other times I don't see any great benefits to it besides being healthier.

plus the idea of trying to integrate myself into a group of complete strangers, which I'm integrating based on the fact that I use illegal narcotics...I don't really like that idea either

That's pretty much where I'm coming from with regards to my thoughts on AA. I'm uncomfortable enough in large groups of people, much less talking about something personal to a bunch of people I don't even know. I also don't like how afaik according to AA principles if you relapse you're back to square one. I think that's bullshit. I guess I just don't really think AA has a positive approach to trying to help people. That and I think being around a bunch of people talking about drinking would just make me want to drink more, but I'm just rambling now lol. I guess it does work for some people.

 

[closeau]

Nuttynutskin, I feel ya. Alcohol is only mentioned once in the steps and it says in the book alcohol was but a symptom. Most meetings aren't people sitting around talking about drinking, their talking about the solution to the problem of alcoholism. It's mostly about life and all the good things that come when you get sober. I'm not sittin here sayin you should go, I would never do that but I used to share your outlook and I wish I didn't cause it would have saved me a lot of misery. Good luck to you!

 

[Jabberwocky]

I know I'm playing the dick, but...

If one looks up the definition of sober (or at least not that directly related to drug use), one can certainly use drugs and be sober at the same time. But of course only if there is some balance to how that happens. Without the balance, there isn't much hope for sober thought or behavior.

 

[manboychef]

abstinence and sobriety are two very different things.

abstinence is a physical state...sobriety is a mindstate. Sobriety is your goal and it might not include abstinence. There has been huge success rates with methadone and buprenorphine. You aren't abstinent when you are taking those, but they put you on an even enough keel to start working on the actual problem which is addiction, and addictive behaviors. Even on ORT you can have a state of sobriety...

Here is a little something. I can eat a whole container of oreos in one sitting. I'm satisfied after two, but my addict mind makes me want more, so I indulge. That is an addictive behavior, binge eating. What is the solution you ask? Thinking. Think Think Think. What will I gain by eating all these oreos?

I dunno I'm just going on and on here, I think you get my point. Its the behaviors that are the problem not whether you use or not. If I could be a functional heroin addict I sure as shit would be taking my daily dose, but my addictive behaviors surrounding it make it impossible for me to do so.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Dito. Unless one has the safest connects (from the cops and violence) and all the money in the world, I imagine it would be pretty difficult to be a functional heroin addict and stick it out indefinitely like possible on buprenorphine or methadone.

I think that it's also to not incorrectly consider oneself abstinent even on buprenorphine or methadone. The only thing they have in common with traditionally misused opioids like heroin when taken correctly and prescribed by a doctor is that they're also opioids. It runs against what most people even in the recovery community, but shoot if I listened to those folks all the time I'd never have been able to get this far.

Hahaha, I guess I also dunno and am likewise going on and on here

 

[maxade]

N.a stalked me for 2 years cuz I woodnt listen to their bullshit

 

[mrsnowygrainius]

maybe this is just in the area i live but people just aren't friendly in the meetings. I would usually go alone and I noticed that people there all seemed to be in their own little groups or cliques people just weren't friendly. I would even stand outside and smoke a cig before the meeting started and very few people even said hello while walking past me to get inside.

I am not an outgoing person at all, very introverted. I would never share at meetings but that doesn't matter, addicts are supposed to help each other out and no one at these meetings ever did that with me. maybe I met one or two people form these meetings and that was years ago. I would also raise my hand when they would ask "is this anyone's first time at THIS meeting?" people would write their numbers down, but then when the meeting ended no one would approach me...

Like I said before, the general unfriendly- ness of people there is what turned me off to NA meetings, I haven't beeb to one in over a year lately tho i been wanted to go to one but I know the same thing will happen. And no I don't give off any bad vibes while I'm there, I'm just an average looking guy so theres that excuse gone for them.

I also wanted to add that Ive tried AA many times, theres still that unfriendly-ness vibe there but maybe not as bad since theres lots of way older people at AA I guess people there understand the concept of respect, they see a new face they came up to me an introduced themselves to me, it also could have been because I was with a person that was a regular at that meeting.

 

[manboychef]

Part of the NA and AA thing is that you have to get out of your comfort zone. One of the things about NA is the relapse rate. It is almost like they want you to introduce yourself and give a piece of yourself before they invest in you their own experiences.

I am different. I will always welcome the newcomer and sit next to them. I don't go very often but I do remember my first few meetings when I was eighteen and feeling like I had a dick on my forehead because everyone was staring at me. When the time came for me to talk. I stood up and said "my name is manboychef, and I don't care what you think of me. I am here because of IOP and that is it. I can handle it on my own without your validation." I sat down. I went to all the meetings I had to for IOP, graduated the class and went right back to using. Maybe if I had asked for the help things would have been different. When I go now I go because I have something on my mind or my heart that I can't deal with and I need to express in front of other addicts and alcoholics because they may have the answers I am lacking. I also go sometimes when I am just feeling way to complacent for my own good, and usually I hear something that I need to hear about relapse, or someone doing some more "research and development" that puts in perspective what I am feeling.

Basically what I am saying is meetings are a mixed bag. Everyone is different other than the common goal of getting sober and staying sober. If you take an active role in meeting people and networking you will have better results.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Right on chef. I'm also more of an introvert, although of the perfectly social-able variety, and I've always felt that all the AA/NA/CA/Alanon meetings I've ever gone to have had this oppressively exclusive feeling. Like our way or the highway highfalutin kind of attitude. I don't believe this is reflected in the core foundational texts, and that is has more to do with the character of alcoholics/addicts needing to create a positive sense of self and identity. A lot of people in our society do that most easily by attaching themselves to and identifying with a group, at the expense of others. Very individualist kind of social capital if you get what I'm saying.

That said, I have generally found meetings, perhaps not all but certainly most, very friendly places. As I mentioned, some are absolutely better than others. And I've met a lot of really supportive open minded, cool people there. Unfortunately for me the core of AA/NA is the meetings, at least as it's been explained and introduced to me, and they generally don't benefit me enough to make the support of one or two individuals worth it. I get more out of BL/SL/DiTM given their relative benefits and limitations than I do out of any meetings I've gone to. If I have to go to one for court of something I have found one room that I can authentically get along with more often than not, but I've never felt truly comfortable or safe to be myself there without assault on my character or reproach (then again a lot of that is in my head, because while I do get a lot of flack for expressing my largeness of mind, a lot of people come up to me after and thank me because they strongly connected to me; yet still, I don't feel that oppressive nature in other setting IRL, so I just figure it's something somewhat inherent to my experience of AA/NA up till now that is the issue more than my social phobia or something).

Now, I would like for chef to take me to one of his meetings. I've never had a good friend or someone I already know I get along with go to a meeting with me. Having that kind of personal, mutual support would have a big difference on my experience of a meeting, so I don't doubt that is significant. I've only had occasion to go to meetings along with people I don't much care for, certainly people I don't feel too comfortable around. Thus it is especially hard for me to enjoy those meetings. That certainly doesn't make it easy.

I've noticed that people give too much credit to AA/NA. They place all the blame on it when it doesn't work out and they give it all the credit when they have success. I just don't believe it works that way. We deserve the credit when we succeed and to learn from our mistakes, anything else does us great discredit given the individual nature of addiction.

 

[manboychef]

First off I would be glad to have you Toothpastedog. My personal ethos is that I don't take others emotional garbage and generally when there is an attack on what you have said, or they are excluding you it is because you have something they want...be it either a state of mind, or even material things.

Yeah I look at NA/AA as more of a forum for addicts to discuss addict problems without people who have never experienced the dizzying highs and soul crushing lows of addiction. For instance I am dependent on benzos. I take them as prescribed and My mom seems to think all these natural herbs and folk remedies are going to make my dependence better. These folk remedies may alleviate some anxiety (though it is dubious at best) but when I am feeling withdrawal symptoms (I always try to push myself before I take a dose because I want to know that if need be I can ween off and stop) taking some sort of herbal remedy is not going to stop the brain zaps, terrible rebound anxiety, and muscle twitches. She doesn't understand the difference between addiction and dependence. I get real therapeutic help from my medications and I don't abuse them. I don't take part in criminal activities to get them, I don't doctor shop, and I challenge myself to take a small enough dose just to bring my anxiety to a functional level.

Back to the original topic...each addict became one for a very specific reason, or multitude of reasons that are unique to the addict. Putting some cookie cutter idea of what works on that addict is going to have a low success rate. When someone relapses you hear all the old timers say "he just wasn't working the steps honestly, or wasn't listening to his sponsor...or any number of AA/NA platitudes ad nauseum). In reality some people need that rigid guideline to stay sober, however most do not and should take what is said piecemeal. I find that just talking to other addicts and helping where I can is the best antidrug along with finding a hobby that I can take my mind off everything...ie gardening.

 

[closeau]

Said well man. My grand sponser always told me we get the credit for our success or failures, not the program. I'm just lucky I live in a city that has great AA. It's a wonderful place to get sober. We have an awesome clubhouse with meetings all day. I enjoy it. Just got back from one. Helped a guy out which helped me. Brilliant concept, helping others to help yourself. And if you don't think it works go to your states convention and meet all those recovered people who were all gutter drunks and addicts. I love it and it's saved me from getting high after my mom passed 5 days ago. Thank God for AA!!!

 

[aihfl]

How do they work and are they only for AA or are there others?

Getting back to the OP's question, you find someone "that has what you want to have," and then ask them to be your sponsor. They typically become a close friend and confidante. My sponsor gave me a ride to the mechanic to pick up my pickup truck. He doesn't just help me work the steps and listens to me when I have a problem, he is also my close friend.

As for all the people who think AA/NA is bullshit (as did I for many years), it really is in 99.999999% of cases because, "these are men and women that were constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves." If you're not ready to ask yourself the difficult questions, you're not going to get anything out of the program.

And to address something closeau said a few posts back, I read this wonderful book written by an alcoholic physician, Dr. Olivier Ameisen, called "The End of My Addiction," and he goes on to say that addiction is the only condition in which the disease and the symptom are one and the same. I know for me, if I wasn't anxious, prone to panic attacks and depressed, I wouldn't have a reason to drink. And sooner or later, with regular meeting attendance, you're not sharing your problems that you might drink over with strangers, but with a close circle of friends who can relate. And even in the beginning, I found it more comfortable to talk about my problems with a group of strangers than a non-alcoholic friend that I would be afraid would pass judgment.

Lastly, if you find people repellent at a meeting, go to another meeting. People were assholes to me at the first AA group I went to and wrote off AA to my detriment because of it. I've finally found two different meetings I go to regularly and those people have become like family.