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spirits or schizophrenia

andreas

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Mar 10, 2009
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451
Recently I got back form Peru where I drank ayahuasca five times. It wasn't really what I expected, in the sense that i thought it would purge more than it did. I guess I thought of it as some miracle cure, wich I now know it is not. However I will say it has given me a different look on myself and life.

Things were all good till about two weeks after i got back I had a vision in the state where your not awake but just not yet asleep, where my legs morphed into hooves and then had this strange dream with a priest in it...anyways wasnt to concerned till lately iv had suicidal visiuons and a voice in my head and sometime my own thoughts on killing myself.

what the fuck is going on I was very scientifc till just recently so I dont know much on spirtuality all iv been told is that Ayahuasca opends you up spiritualy and can let bad spirits in too.

any help would be awesome

MODS feel free to move to TDS
 
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I don't know about the "bad spirits" per se, but I do know that suicidal thoughts can be serious business. Are you having any other feelings such as (but not limited to) depression, anxiety, or paranoia? Are currently ingesting any other legal or illegal drugs?

I attempted suicide 6 years ago and had been smoking massive amounts of weed, daily. I became extremely paranoid and thought everyone was out to get me. After the attempt I got psychological "help" and got to the point where I can no longer smoke weed and have to take psychoactive medication every day. A lot of people are against using meds for this type of thing, but I have to admit, they keep me in balance and they keep me out of the psych ward.

I'm NOT saying you have it as bad as I did back then. Just know that YOU and only YOU are in control of your actions. Thoughts of suicide aren't the end of the world, but you have to draw the line before you start to consider taking action on these thoughts.

If you need to, don't be afraid to see a psychologist or counselor and tell them about these feelings you're having. Do you know the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist? In case you don't, a psychologist has a PhD and only counsels you - they do not administer drugs. A psychiatrist by contrast has an MD and does administer drugs. I don't think you'd be a candidate for medication just yet (of course I don't know your background), but there's nothing wrong with a little counseling. If anything it's just talking to a person who will not judge you like your friends and family will, and can give you advice on how to cope with these thoughts.

It's not quite as black and white as spirits or schizophrenia. I personally don't think it's spirits but don't think it's schizophrenia either. If there is any doubt, however, get in to see a counselor. And if you EVER think you are actually going to commit suicide, go ahead and drive yourself to the nearest Emergency Room and tell them, it's a safe place.
 
In my non-professional opinion, you do not sound schizophrenic. You don't sound deluded at all. You seem to be approaching the situation rationally. Strange and disturbing perceptual experiences should cause you to take notice and express concern, that's a perfectly rational and normal response.

To echo Jerry Atrick, I think going to see a psychologist is a great idea. In fact, that should probably be your next move.

If you need to go the prescription route, a small dose of Seroquel for a short period of time might normalize your serotonin system. I think an SSRI is exactly what you do not need right now-- you need the opposite of an SSRI essentially.
 
Schizophrenia is a European term for a state of mind. Schizophrenia did not exist until we invented it through our skewed perception and ideas about "Mental Health".

The previous two posters have recommended counseling and possibly medication. I would personally strongly advise against either of those options.

When you use sacred medicines such as ayahuasca you are opening up doors to the Spirit realm, when you go into these realms unprepared there can be some pretty intense consequences. I personally went through several months of hearing voices much like what you are describing and seeing unusual things after doing several sessions of mushroom medicine without the proper guidance.

The reason I suggest avoiding counseling or meds, is because within the framework of our western society they are not at all familiar with the things you are going through. They will be quick to put a label on your condition, and it is likely they may try to prescribe you medication that would be counter productive to your own healing process. They do not know any better. If you tell a psychiatrist you took ayahuasca and describe your current state of mind they would be extremely quick to label you psychotic, and dope you up on all sorts of meds so they can make a buck.

Western medicine does not have a reference point to deal with things like this. I know many people who have been thrown in mental institutions or forcibly doped up on soul-killing medication as a result of their premature spiritual awakenings.


The Ayahuasca has started the healing process, now it's your job to finish it. The medicines reveal your own self to you, and now you say you think you are schizophrenic. That's just your own fear based programming trying to convince you that you are something other than a divine being of light. These voices can only affect you in a negative way if you allow them to, you are the master of your own mind. I say this as someone who has gone through very similar things in the past. You are responsible for your own healing process.

Using western medicine for a situation like this is a way of choosing a "Victim" mentality. If you want to do that, that's fine, go hand your problems to a psychologist and see what they do. They will only reinforce the false notion that you are a "victim" in this scenario and take your power away from you.

You have the power to go through this healing process.

Blessings and Much Love.
 
Well, you are coherrent enough to post your thoughts into a sentence that is understandable. And you have enough insight into what you are experiencing to determine was is real and what is not. Also you have taken recently a large quantity of paychoactives.
I'd just like to point out that people who are schizophrenic don't need drugs to hallucinate. Just so know.
 
You're definitely not schizophrenic. Schizophrenia is a very specific cluster of symptoms. Ugster said it best -- it's really not a justified disease at all. No one has found one cause that produces all its symptoms. So it's merely a syndrome: a set of symptoms that tend to occur together, for long periods of time:

1. The 'negative symptoms': flat mood, social aversion, amotivation or motor depression
2. The 'positive symptoms': intrusive and odd thoughts, delusions, hallucinations
3. Not responsive to mood stabilizers, antiepileptics, or antidepressives.

I'm not seeing schizophrenia in your story. I'm seeing hypnopompic hallucinations (dream states during the ascent from sleep to wakefulness), and MAYBE a bit of HPPD.

Only you can decide if the spiritual experiences you've had (while on drugs or sober, waking or sleeping) are genuine looks into realms beyond everyday reality, or merely tricks of your mind. No one knows the answers to any of the big questions, and it's up to you to be your own navigator. Be well.
 
one of my visions was ayahuasca telling me how it is not the one that heals us it us that heal ourselves.I was told that we all have this eternal light, the life force of the universe within us, that we are all pure.... I guess I just need to believe more in myself.

I would like to believe that this is some part of my subconscious mind that just needs to go and that I wasn't aware of it b4

thanks guys
 
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Welcome to the light my man....

You should really look into meditation.... helps get your thoughts straight; when you are overloaded with stuff....
 
^^ thanks man

I just spoke to a guy who is very experienced with ayahuasca and he told me that its just me and that ayahuasca doesn't stop working on you just coz you left Peru and stop drinking. It stays with you and keeps working on you. I now I had/have a lot of self hate issues that i must get rid of along with the reasons for my anxiety and depression wich are caused by underlying issues. many people say ayahuasca will give you what you needed first and a MASSIVE part of my ego has gone...one step forward I guess
 
^^ thanks man

I just spoke to a guy who is very experienced with ayahuasca and he told me that its just me and that ayahuasca doesn't stop working on you just coz you left Peru and stop drinking. It stays with you and keeps working on you. I now I had/have a lot of self hate issues that i must get rid of along with the reasons for my anxiety and depression wich are caused by underlying issues. many people say ayahuasca will give you what you needed first and a MASSIVE part of my ego has gone...one step forward I guess

I'm glad you were able to get your thoughts straightened out %)
 
The best way to describe it for me would be the "Feeling of being Free" and being one with the earth and all its creatures.....I know when i took forums of medicence... it changed me for good.... and i think it was for the better.... Ego death was such is a great growing process for myself....
 
Schizophrenia is a European term for a state of mind. Schizophrenia did not exist until we invented it through our skewed perception and ideas about "Mental Health".

I agree. If you search my post history, you'll see I've posted very similar views many times. :)

The previous two posters have recommended counseling and possibly medication. I would personally strongly advise against either of those options.

When you use sacred medicines such as ayahuasca you are opening up doors to the Spirit realm, when you go into these realms unprepared there can be some pretty intense consequences. I personally went through several months of hearing voices much like what you are describing and seeing unusual things after doing several sessions of mushroom medicine without the proper guidance.

The reason I suggest avoiding counseling or meds, is because within the framework of our western society they are not at all familiar with the things you are going through. They will be quick to put a label on your condition, and it is likely they may try to prescribe you medication that would be counter productive to your own healing process. They do not know any better. If you tell a psychiatrist you took ayahuasca and describe your current state of mind they would be extremely quick to label you psychotic, and dope you up on all sorts of meds so they can make a buck.

Western medicine does not have a reference point to deal with things like this. I know many people who have been thrown in mental institutions or forcibly doped up on soul-killing medication as a result of their premature spiritual awakenings.


The Ayahuasca has started the healing process, now it's your job to finish it. The medicines reveal your own self to you, and now you say you think you are schizophrenic. That's just your own fear based programming trying to convince you that you are something other than a divine being of light. These voices can only affect you in a negative way if you allow them to, you are the master of your own mind. I say this as someone who has gone through very similar things in the past. You are responsible for your own healing process.

Using western medicine for a situation like this is a way of choosing a "Victim" mentality. If you want to do that, that's fine, go hand your problems to a psychologist and see what they do. They will only reinforce the false notion that you are a "victim" in this scenario and take your power away from you.

You have the power to go through this healing process.

Blessings and Much Love.

I'm sorry, but if the OP is experiencing suicidal ideation and voices instructing them to kill themselves, (whether its as a result of their ayahuasca use or not is irrelevant, imo), they don't need to "complete their spiritual awakening"; they need a short period on quetiapine and plenty of loving support until those potentially life-threatening thoughts cease.

Specifically, qualified professional support! Contrary to popular belief, not all psychologists are 'soul-killing westerner bastard mofos' (=D) ya know? (Admittedly, most -not all- psychiatrists are LOL). I'm serious though, psychology is such a diverse and non-centralized field, you can almost always find a psychologist suited to your needs if you look.

There are plenty of psychologists who are sympathetic to psychedelic-seekers and won't deride their beliefs or hinder their spirituality in any way-- in fact, their job has nothing to do with that at all. It has to do with helping a person to recognize which thoughts might lead to harmful outcomes, how to identify them and deal with them, and develop strategies for coping with those unusual/stressful states.

But primarily, a good psychologist will provide a tentative framework to represent various logical and emotional processes, so that you can better impose your will upon them. You lay a map over a territory that was previously hazy and nebulous so that you don't get lost in the bullshit of your own mind. You don't have to be brainwashed or anything, its just a strategy that be helpful in certain situations for anyone, specifically people hearing voices telling them to kill themselves.

Now, all this being said. I'm not really a proponent of psychology as a discipline, I think its kind of goofy. But when I was a teenager, my parents thought I had "drug problems" (mainly just occassional weed and mushroom use, at that point. 8)) and sent me to see this psychologist-- who just happened to be a really cool guy, and actually helped me to understand a lot about myself at a point in time when I knew very little.

So its really all about the specific person, and your relationship to them-- it may take several tries to find a psychologist you connect with, but if you need to go that route you can find success on that path if you try, IMO. But you can't just choose one random person and expect it to be work out, you have to find someone who is actually a caring, understanding, cool person, etc.
 
andreas, how are you feeling now? Are you still having these disturbing experiences? My advice to you at this point depends entirely on this question, how disrupted your everyday sober life currently remains, and how well-integrated your experiences in Peru have become for you.

I don't agree with Roger&Me that you should be on an antipsychotic dopamine antagonist. These drugs are a 'lesser of two evils' treatment in the best of cases, since they're so dysphoric and amotivational. They should be reserved only for patients who are TORMENTED AND CRIPPLED by the abnormal thoughts and sensory experiences they're having, to the point where they cannot carry on normal lives.

It chaps my ass how many docs will send any patient who makes even oblique mention of thinking / seeing / hearing odd things, on their way with a script for risperdone or quetiapine or aripiprazole (or even fucking HALDOL!), without even telling the patient what they're scripting them and what it's likely to do to them. These drugs are no fun to be on. Seems some docs care more about not getting sued than actually helping their patients live better lives.

I DO agree with Roger&Me that if you're still having these experiences, it would be wise to seek out a doctor or psychologist who has experiences treating psychedelic drug users and other seekers of mystical experiences, and who is open philosophically, on some level, to the merit of such experiences. They exist, but SEARCH HARD. You want NEITHER a hardline skeptic who'll tell you politely that you're mentally ill and need pharmacological therapy, NOR a flaky new-agey lady who'll validate everything you tell her with a dreamy voice, but whose knowledge of medical science and human behavioral science (and therefore recommendations for therapy!) are no better than a layman's.
 
what the fuck is going on I was very scientifc till just recently so I dont know much on spirtuality all iv been told is that Ayahuasca opends you up spiritualy and can let bad spirits in too.
While specific substances/practices can produce unique surfaces( e.g entities, characters in dreams, etc... ), they are interpretations of dimensions you possess. That's the interpretation I've taken on at least.

I would like to believe that this is some part of my subconscious mind that just needs to go and that I wasn't aware of it b4
Applying labels like "good" and "bad" to various aspects of yourself doesn't really make sense in a therapeutic context. Psycho-Therapy is usually about bringing repressed elements to the surface so you can embody, observe, and work through them. Labeling things "bad" is what causes repression/alienation of your self in the first place.



I'm sorry, but if the OP is experiencing suicidal ideation and voices instructing them to kill themselves, (whether its as a result of their ayahuasca use or not is irrelevant, imo), they don't need to "complete their spiritual awakening"; they need a short period on quetiapine and plenty of loving support until those potentially life-threatening thoughts cease.
Suicidal thoughts are nothing to take lightly but I think it's also important to consider that death/impermanance are repeating themes in psychedelic experiences. This doesn't necessarily represent an experience that is out of the norm for Ayahuasca or any ego-splitting psychedelic.

I'm not saying the OP shouldn't see a psychologist or therapist. Better safe than sorry, especially if there is a medical history. There probably is no better time to start seeing one as far as being receptive to therapeutic practices goes.

I'm saying that it's a mistake to immediately equate "voices" and "death" with schizoid behavior. Especially when talking about psychedelics like DMT. This sort of conflation between psychedelics and schizophrenia was popular in the 60's and has long since been debunked. Yes, psychedelics can trigger predispositions to these types of conditions but based on the limited information the OP has given it sounds to me(not professional opinion) like he is having "flashbacks" and difficulty integrating the experiences. The flashbacks will most likely subside after a couple months of abstaining. Integrating the content just takes time and will. But like I said it's an opportunity to work with a knowledgeable therapist that I wouldn't pass up.
 
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Suicidal thoughts are nothing to take lightly but I think it's also important to consider that death/impermanance are repeating themes in psychedelic experiences. This doesn't necessarily represent an experience that is out of the norm for Ayahuasca or any ego-splitting psychedelic.

I'm not saying the OP shouldn't see a psychologist or therapist. Better safe than sorry, especially if there is a medical history. There probably is no better time to start seeing one as far as being receptive to therapeutic practices goes.

I'm saying that it's a mistake to immediately equate "voices" and "death" with schizoid behavior. Especially when talking about psychedelics like DMT. This sort of conflation between psychedelics and schizophrenia was popular in the 60's and has long since been debunked. Yes, psychedelics can trigger predispositions to these types of conditions but based on the limited information the OP has given it sounds to me(not professional opinion) like he is having "flashbacks" and difficulty integrating the experiences. The flashbacks will most likely subside after a couple months of abstaining. Integrating the content just takes time and will. But like I said it's an opportunity to work with a knowledgeable therapist that I wouldn't pass up.

I think this is the best advice so far.
 
hey guys

thanks for all the help...I am feeling better and most of the negative stuff feels like it has gone

I spoke to the group I went to Peru with and the curandero and one of the apprentice shamans said they did some work on me in ceremony and cleared out some stuff. apparently I needed more protection than most people as I was more open than others to these kinds of spirits/negatives energies. Up untill very recently I never believed in all this kind of stuff, I would have just taken the meds. Meghan (the girl who runs the place) said that she was much like me at the start but also changed, so I have put on a cross(funny I didnt believe in the dude till last week..anyways) as she said that jesus had a spirit and he will help protect me. Many curandero's including ours use jesus and st Mary in ceremony as well, its just not in the christian sense.

I just cant belive that we are just a bunch of chemicals and neuron. I remember watching a doco' about a group of scientists who strapped people to all these machines to measure response to images on a screen. what they found the couldnt explain...the subjects hearts would respond before the brain in many instances to confrunting images. This they said was "impossible" as there is no direct like between the heart and the eyes the optical nerves go to the brain, also at times they would react before the image was on the screen, this could be explained by telepathic emotional respons from the scientist that was picked up by the test subjects....but telepathy is not real...... as scientsis once believed
 
Next time you have thoughts of suicide, remember that it is not you creating the thoughts, it is your ego/mind. It is only an illusion and its your choice to listen or not.

Do not take the negative thought seriously, that only feeds it energy. Simply laugh at it and move on.
 
Next time you have thoughts of suicide, remember that it is not you creating the thoughts, it is your ego/mind. It is only an illusion and its your choice to listen or not.

Just remember, if you hit someone in the face it wasn't you hitting them in the face it was your arm controlled by your ego/mind. This is bound to help in court.

I'd suggest you try to remember that you can have lots of different thoughts all the time and don't have to act on all of them.
 
Just remember, if you hit someone in the face it wasn't you hitting them in the face it was your arm controlled by your ego/mind. This is bound to help in court.

Wat?

That doesn't make any sense. By those standards, nobody would have to take responsibility for any of their actions. "I'm sorry judge, I didn't mean to shoot the guy, it was my arm controlled by my ego/mind." 8)

Believe me, no judge or jury would ever buy that defense :\
 
Wat?

That doesn't make any sense.

Exactly. I was using the nonsense of the statement to demonstrate why i think Soothsayer's argument about it not being you that creates suicidal thoughts was also nonsense.
 
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