Spice Gold - Inexperienced - Reshaping the Legal High Landscape

[uandb]

A very knowledgable blue/blacklighter has done his own searching. I hate to say it, but in a single post at blacklight (and definitely in the entire three page thread), there's more actual information about the searching that was done (and why a bunch of the information available online is faulty, something about an out of tune ion trap, not really my thing) in that extra long, mostly devoid of anything substantial, thread.

The biggest problem with that whole thread? (Well, it's up there anyway) Is that everyone who was searching didn't use one bit of sense in their search. They seem to have been searching for the most unlikely chemicals.

We already know it doesn't contain THC or explicitly illegal cannabinoids (government lab confirms, thanks to mad_scientist).

So that pretty much leaves synthetic cannabinoids and interesting, new exo-cannabis cannabinoids of natural origins, assuming that the effect is caused by cannabi-mimetic agonism. If we're going to assume absolutely nothing (which maybe is the right way to go, but is awfully time consuming), then the skies the limit, I guess.

So what sorts of synthetic cannabinoids do they look for? The classic ones like HU-210 and CP 55940.

They're the most difficult to synthesize, the ones that are going to be considered analogues, and the ones with stability issues.

They are the ones that'd be in a reference lib, though. But they're also mostly full agonists, per my own understanding, fwiw.

What they should have been looking for are the newish WIN 55,212-2 or JWH-018 sorts of things. The aminoalkylindole/aa-pyrroles, that is.

They're easy to synth, stable, and still quite potent, and thanks to WIN 55,212-2, well known.

Anyone who was thinking about making something like spice (assuming it's a synthetic, which according to the study I did, other Bluelighters and even that e-dot thread, it seems to be), how would they do so?

So, they'd need to find an easy to synth, cheap to produce, still recreational and not easy to OD on, cannabinoid.

first search out known synthetic cannabinoids
look at their structures
Which type is easiest to synth?
find those that are partial agonists, and are about as potent as cannabis
Weed those out for obvious toxicity

See if you can have it synthed at a price you can still turn a profit.

Once that's done, you have to apply it to the plant material and do what you can to prevent it from degrading too rapidly.

(hence the reason we find tocopherol galore)

can you PM me the text of that article

my interest lies in seeing if the things that are supposed to be in there are really in there (e.g. leonurine)

tocepherol is found in large quantities in red cloer and I think that some of the stuff in red clover are mu opiod agonists and partially responsible for the effects....there are other forums where people are using red clover to cut their oxy dosages in half

another thing I want to find out about are phytoestrogen concentrations...motherwort and red clover are both used for menopause so one would like to know just how much if any) phytoestrogen theyre pumping into their system, especially good to kow if one is trying to conceive

 

[Cface]

Great report man.


Maybe i'm a bit off topic. But from what i'm understanding Spice and its related products have synthetic cannabinoids correct? So wouldn't it turn a piss test positive for marijuana seeing as how THC is a cannabinoid? Or do piss tests look specifically for THC, not just cannabinoids in general?

 

[uandb]

Great report man.


Maybe i'm a bit off topic. But from what i'm understanding Spice and its related products have synthetic cannabinoids correct? So wouldn't it turn a piss test positive for marijuana seeing as how THC is a cannabinoid? Or do piss tests look specifically for THC, not just cannabinoids in general?

See Im not so sure...hence the reason i want to see the blacklight artivle Ham-milton mentions.

Heres to hoping the blacklighters let me read the journal articles becuz its not anywhere else

 

[psychedelicious]

I've heard from many, many peeps that the first few minutes of a spice(gold) experience feel like the first few seconds of a salvia divinorum experience. This makes me think that there is some salvinorin-ish chemical in there, short-acting and at a low dose, causing an immediate effect, followed by the FX of some other chemical which take a few minutes to become apparent.

thx for the report, hammy

 

[uandb]

I've heard from many, many peeps that the first few minutes of a spice(gold) experience feel like the first few seconds of a salvia divinorum experience. This makes me think that there is some salvinorin-ish chemical in there, short-acting and at a low dose, causing an immediate effect, followed by the FX of some other chemical which take a few minutes to become apparent.


thx for the report, hammy

Back on EDot when you could still find the pictture of the GCMS run there was a peak that no one could identify..someone else said its molecular weight was 432 and that it was salvinorin A

I doubt this: Salvinorin A makes people hallucinate, is not recreational, and is aversive, also i'd put money tat its the next thing to be federally scheduled....this'd force the deli to reformulate

 

[treezy z]

i started smoking spice, chillin and the galaxy blends because i'm on piss tests and i wanna get baked. they're pretty sick, they get me nice and high. i actually like them better than cannabis because real weed makes me panicky and paranoid. the best is chillin xxx, i find it as trippy as dank buds and i highly recommend it to anyone who can't piss dirty.

 

[Ham-milton]

Great report man.


Maybe i'm a bit off topic. But from what i'm understanding Spice and its related products have synthetic cannabinoids correct? So wouldn't it turn a piss test positive for marijuana seeing as how THC is a cannabinoid? Or do piss tests look specifically for THC, not just cannabinoids in general?

they look for THC-type cannabinoids. there are other synthetics that have no structural similarity that bind to the same receptors.

 

[Coolio]

Urine tests only look for THC metabolites. Not 'cannabinoids'. You can't really test for the inferred pharmacological action of hitherto unknown metabolites of hitherto unknown drugs of abuse.

 

[Youkai]

I remember durring a ketamine bindge a BLighter introduced me to spice gold. It looked like cat nip with some sort of green wheat cornels in it. He handed me a bong and told me to take a big hit and hold it in. So I did and I didnt like the effects. made me paranoid, ridden with anxiety and inpending doom. I felt realy vaulnerable and outside my self. I remember feeling as if I could "loose it" at any seconds. Smoking a cig didnt help me relax either... over all it was a negative experience.

 

[Coolio]

I am eagerly awaiting the chance to try some Spice Gold or some Chillin XXX or any of the other popular ones. I'm even more eagerly awaiting someone to figure out what the active constituents are.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Dwarf Skullcap, Scutellaria nana, that had cannabinoid activity. A bunch of the herbs listed on the ingredients in these smoking blends have never been available from any vendors in the form of dried leaf/flowers/buds or extract, so nobody in the drug scene has had an opportunity to smoke each herb on its own.

Seeing as these smoking blends' distribution networks are intertwined with the distribution networks for the piperazine/cathinone 'party pills' in certain countries.... I would definitely not be shocked to find out that there's some synthetic indole cannabinoids mixed into these blends.

 

[Quebec Gold]

I'll probably get flamed for this

What we would truly need is a full lab test done on those extracts.
Kinda like what the DEA would do if they wanted to make this illegal (following a media-crisis, of course, its America !).

I don't really care as of legal status, but I do care as the actual chemical composition of what I put inside my body.

 

[hoptis]

Thanks for the detailed report Ham, the legal highs market is very interesting at the moment.

Some discussion here about the suspected contents of Spice Gold.

 

[Beenhead]

I have no idea how I missed it, but I just want to remind everyone to think about what they are saying and leave out the source discussion, even the vague refrences should be left out because in general they serve no purpose in Identifying the substance.

 

[Ham-milton]

can you PM me the text of that article

my interest lies in seeing if the things that are supposed to be in there are really in there (e.g. leonurine)

tocepherol is found in large quantities in red cloer and I think that some of the stuff in red clover are mu opiod agonists and partially responsible for the effects....there are other forums where people are using red clover to cut their oxy dosages in half

another thing I want to find out about are phytoestrogen concentrations...motherwort and red clover are both used for menopause so one would like to know just how much if any) phytoestrogen theyre pumping into their system, especially good to kow if one is trying to conceive

There's no redclover in this mix. I don't remember if they even claim it does; it doesn't.

I can't PM the whole article, it's a PDF.

edit: oh, wait a second, what article are you talking about? I don't see on mentioned in the post you quote. The study I did was just me and a friend at the university testing the plant material.

 

[uandb]

There's no redclover in this mix. I don't remember if they even claim it does; it doesn't.

I can't PM the whole article, it's a PDF.

edit: oh, wait a second, what article are you talking about? I don't see on mentioned in the post you quote. The study I did was just me and a friend at the university testing the plant material.

the pdf'll work...can u rapidshare it or something and pm me for the link?

 

[Ham-milton]

I keep forgetting to reply to this. So here I am.

you missed my edit I guess: I dunno what article you're looking for.

And I can't PM you anything, you're a greenlighter still.

 

[uandb]

well can you rapidshare that stuff about you and the friend testing plant material that you speak of?...Im an info hound when it comes to spice/alikes as you may have guessed

I can tell you this:

apomrphine aka from a blue lotus extract is almost definately NOT in spice. a while back there was a thread about a dog eating 3.5 g of spice. he said the dog was lethargic but never was it mentioned that the dog puked.

Apomorphine is used to make dogs projectile vomit, as in, they ate a sock or something and the vet wants to try a non surgical option first.

the fact that said spice eating dog didnt barf makes me think it's not in spice.

butt tons of tocepherol tho....

 

[Coolio]

Apomorphine doesn't have any pleasurable GABAergic or cannabinoid activity. Why would you think there's enough Blue Lotus extract in it to make a dog throw up?

 

[theWorldWithin]

Not entirely sure about apomorphine and its effects profile but blue lotus is most definitely active on its own.

 

[Ham-milton]

because they claim blue lotus is in it?

We don't have anything saved; my friend might have something, but I know I don't.