Speeding and Seroquel - Do I have tardive dyskinesia or am I retarded?

[Soap MacTavish]

I've been on Seroquel for several months now daily. my dose is typically around 200mg/day but I have been up to 800mg/day on occasion when I want to knock myself out.

I noticed that one possible side effect is getting tardive dyskinesia. In the literature they describe it as uncontrollable movements in the face, tongue, or other body parts.

What has happened to me is I do have uncontrollable movements, or actually more of a general tremor in my hands now - AKA shaky hands. This has occurred recently within the last month or so. It occurred when I've been sober for more then 6 weeks(aside from the seroquel)

If you don't know my gig I'm a speed freak, specializing in overdosing on uppers. MDPV is my DoC but I'll have whatever. Once I made a "mean jean cocktail" consisting of 500mg mephedrone + 60mg of amp + 30mg of MDPV and parashooted it - the PV I kept redosing up my nose at 20mg intervals over and over.

I'm wondering if the seroquel has brought this on or I have some sort of weird form of fuckhead parkinsons I brought upon myself from all the speeding and simmering of my prefrontal cortex.

I dunno. Got any ideas?

 

[Slapdragonx]

Look at your tongue in the mirror. If it has worm-like movements then stop Seroquel, that would be tardive dyskinesia.

 

[seep]

benztropine (Cogentin) may reverse the parkinsonism. I've seen it function for people on risperidone

it's likely you're seeing extrapyramidal symptoms instead of TD. They're two different things that seem very similar. With quetiapine, EPS are much more common than TD, and EPS are reversible by either benztropine or discontinuation of the antipsychotic

 

[fryingsquirrel]

I would think it more likely his hands are shaking because he's doing WWWAAAYYY to many stimulants. MDPV did the same to me and I wasn't taking seraquel.

 

[rollingstoned!]

Seroquel is essentially doing the opposite of the stims. Both are acting on the dopamine system, which is known to be a major contributor of tardive dyskinesia.

IMO, quit either the stims or the seroquel, and see if you get an improvement.

 

[fryingsquirrel]

Both would be even better, but from reading his posts he's in a very self destructive spiral. Added mephedrone to the mix since the last I heard. I don't see this ending well. Soap, you might want to think about getting some help. I was where you are a few years ago, I'm lucky to be alive.

 

[Lady Codone]

I used to take a regimen of Risperdal, Anafranil, Luvox and Cogentin and STILL had hand tremors that made it hard to hold a pen.

Here's a frightening vid I found of TD...obviously severe.

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/9167/Tardive_Dyskinesia/

 

[vanboy5]

definitely cut out the quetiapine... tardive dyskinesia is serious well known side effect of many neuroleptics including seroquel according to my pdoc. considering the psychostimulant usage, it doesn't help - the long-term effects of many of which could also lead to autonomic movements ie parkinson's.

i'd advise exploring other hypnotics if you are simply taking quetiapine to "knock yourself out"

 

[Kenaz]

Soap: I recently posted a thread wherein I described some extrapyramidal symptoms which occured as a result of MDPV usage. Since that time I've been doing some research, and I've found other anecdotal reports which suggest EPS symptoms -- twitching, puckering, tongue-fluttering, tics and other events which don't sound like the usual side effects of heavy stimulant usage.

I am also wondering about reports of MDPV being linked to compulsive sexuality, as well as comments on how men on MDPV find that they are able to get it up again soon after coming. A shortened refractory period has been tied to some anti-Parkinson's drugs, notably cabergoline: so have incidents of compulsive gambling, sexuality and other bad behavior. I suspect that MDPV, especially in high doses, may effect different areas of the brain than many other commonly available stimulants.

And as several others have said, Seroquel is known to cause tardive dyskinesia on its own. That could be causing your problems even if I am completely out to lunch with my current MDPV theory.

In any event, I strongly urge you to take these symptoms seriously. Extrapyramidal symptoms are what you get from early usage: if you ignore them and keep on ingesting, you can wind up with tardive dyskinesia, which is a more-or-less permanent condition, not one that is only triggered by large doses of MDPV or what have you. I say this as a former psych patient (1984) who was given some of the first-generation antipsychotics (phenothiazides and the like) and who saw people who had been permanently damaged by same.

 

[MeDieViL]

definitely cut out the quetiapine... tardive dyskinesia is serious well known side effect of many neuroleptics including seroquel according to my pdoc. considering the psychostimulant usage, it doesn't help - the long-term effects of many of which could also lead to autonomic movements ie parkinson's.

i'd advise exploring other hypnotics if you are simply taking quetiapine to "knock yourself out"

+ 1 as harm reduction adjuncts i would suggest the addition of memantine and another sedative like zolpidem (or remeron but i beleive you were allready taking that? in case you rather avoid physical addiction to sedatives, however i would consider that far better compared to potentially getting a permanent movement disorder, wich serieusly is no joke), neuroleptiocs imo shouldnt be used for anything else then psychosis, i still havent read this paper but would appreciate anyone that could get it for me, its possible antipsychotics are of bigger risk when used offlabel.

Curr Drug Saf. 2010 Jul 2;5(3):263-6.
Safety considerations of the use of second generation antipsychotics in the treatment of major depression: extrapyramidal and metabolic side effects.
DeBattista C, DeBattista K.

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, CA 94305, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
Second generation antipsychotics (SGAs) are increasingly employed in the treatment of depression. Adjunctive aripiprizole and olanzapine/ fluoxetine combination (OFC) have been approved in the US in the treatment of depression. Quetiapine also appears to be poised for an FDA approval as an adjunctive treatment for resistant depression. Historically, first generation antipsychotics were thought to carry an enhanced risk of certain side effects in the treatment of mood disorders, including an enhanced risk of extrapyramidal symptoms (EPS). The second generation antipsychotics are also known to be associated with a variety of metabolic side effects. The use of SGA in a depressed population may pose risks that differ from use in other conditions such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. In this paper, the risk of extrapyramidal and metabolic side effects is reviewed in depressed patients treated with second generation antipsychotics.

 

[MeDieViL]

Both would be even better

I personally doubt that, excessive stimulants use leads to more oxidative stress because dopamine is a highly reactive molecule, antipsychotics dont decrease the ammount of dopamine, they block several receptors including the D2 receptor wich itself long term is detrimental to the dopaminergic system while not reducing the oxidative stress caused by the stimulants, to me this combination sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[fryingsquirrel]

I personally doubt that, excessive stimulants use leads to more oxidative stress because dopamine is a highly reactive molecule, antipsychotics dont decrease the ammount of dopamine, they block several receptors including the D2 receptor wich itself long term is detrimental to the dopaminergic system while not reducing the oxidative stress caused by the stimulants, to me this combination sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Having read several of the OP's posts about his stimulant abuse simply quitting the seraquel probably isn't going to be enough. Yes, that may solve this particular problem, but if he doesn't do something about his stimulant problem he will be back with a new problem in short order.

 

[Praline]

benztropine (Cogentin) may reverse the parkinsonism. I've seen it function for people on risperidone

it's likely you're seeing extrapyramidal symptoms instead of TD. They're two different things that seem very similar. With quetiapine, EPS are much more common than TD, and EPS are reversible by either benztropine or discontinuation of the antipsychotic

I agree.. but you may still want to cut down on the Seroquel if you're starting to see symptoms like this appearing.

 

[onmyway]

1) you have already killed some of the neurons in your dopamine dependent pathways. this would be from meth.

2) seroquel is a dopamine antagonist.

3) when you are sober your natural dopamine levels are likely very low.

tardive diskinesia would be a good guess.

one quick fix for this is 50mg benadryl. paramedics use it to stall TD symptoms. not a long term solution though.

 

[vanboy5]

Having read several of the OP's posts about his stimulant abuse simply quitting the seraquel probably isn't going to be enough. Yes, that may solve this particular problem, but if he doesn't do something about his stimulant problem he will be back with a new problem in short order.

i agree fully... however, it seems that the OP in question is not likely to quit psychostimulants. hence, cessation through titration of quetiapine would probably be his best bet in terms of harm reduction.

SOAP:

For which indications are you taking the Seroquel?

 

[Soap MacTavish]

Back when I was all over the amphetamines, my good old psychiatrist (pharmaceutical drug dealer) threw all sorts of shit at my ticks, mood swings, and come downs. Seroquel was one of them. It worked, the others that worked were Trileptal (Oxcarbazepine) and Inderal and I'm still on all of these, as well as Lexapro. I only take the inderal as needed during the comedowns, which are rare if ever because I don't "take" MDPV. I binge uncontrollably on grams till I run out.

Reading these comments I'm wondering if the reason why I seem to have a very high affinity to go straight to deep psychosis on MDPV is because the Seroquel is blocking the low-dose stimulation so I am forced into high doses around 100+mg every hour which of course rockets me right into a state where I am 100% delusional and hallucinating false enemies and get police called on me and hospitalized. It's like a really bad LSD trip, but my worst LSD trip was never as bad as a bad PV trip. Even on ridiculously high amounts of LSD I always knew it was just the drug, not so with the PV. I probably look a lot more like those guys that go crazy on PCP.

Like last time for example I ended up 100% naked in fromt of my mom and demanded that my dad give me an anal search to find the drugs I was convinced he was looking for and I was also convinced he had drilled holes in the wall in my one-room flat and was spying on me with remote viewing camerias and then he had a bunch of thugs cover up the evidence. I freaked them out when I went for my dads rifle and I ended up barricaded in the house against an army of imagined foes and broke a door and all this other shit.

Anyway, back to the case at hand. over the last week I reduced my Seroquel way down as an experiment to around 50mg a day and the hand tremoring is just about gone.

I'm still taking all my other meds at the normal amount. I was concerned about these tremors because, like I said, they occured at 6 weeks sober from stimulants. People would see me shaking and think that I was back on the P.

I'm obsessed with - among many other things - control. In particular finding the exact tweaked formula to be able to get high as hell and fuck black hookers all night and still somehow not go full-on psycho-fuck with a straightjacket. Not a lot of luck, it might just remain a permanent obsession.

 

[pofacedhoe]

mdpv causes very deep psychosis at high doses, more so than amphetamine- if its sending you crazy dont buy it

you need to stick to the drugs you CAN control

also cut down the stims, maybe you would be less addicted to amphetamine and other stims if you weren't on lexapro

when my friend was taking citalopram she would binge on speed like there was no tomorro (five days in a row going into work in a bar out of her mind hearing voices)-it makes the speed more euphoric and the comedowns less painful than without the ssri

 

[P A]

I ended up 100% naked in fromt of my mom and demanded that my dad give me an anal search

I was also convinced he had drilled holes in the wall in my one-room flat and was spying on me with remote viewing camerias and then he had a bunch of thugs cover up the evidence

I went for my dads rifle and I ended up barricaded in the house against an army of imagined foes

naked........rifle

Your chief concern at this point should not be kinetic disorders nor black hookers. Regardless of your reasons for using, I think it's about time you cut back on the pyrovalerone and found an alternative, if possible. If not, I implore you to seek help in doing so.

I've been sober for more then 6 weeks

Without intending to be a total asshole, I strongly suggest that you stay that way.

Quetiapine is among the least likely neuroleptics to cause tardive dyskinesia, but the possibility does remain. If the tremor is beginning to subside, you're probably in the clear.

 

[vanboy5]

Your chief concern at this point should not be kinetic disorders nor black hookers.

Quetiapine is among the least likely neuroleptics to cause tardive dyskinesia, but the possibility does remain. If the tremor is beginning to subside, you're probably in the clear.

Quetiapine is, I agree along with a fellow psychiatrist here, one of the least likely atypical antipsychotics to cause tardive dyskinesia.

Do you have tardive dyskinesia? Possibly. Could it be from the quetiapine? Possibly. Are you retarded? Well... it depends on what you mean by retarded... if your chief concern is still fucking black hookers then I would say YES, in my opinion. Also, I would advise to stay on the quetiapine to keep the auditory/visual hallucinations at bay and you may consider living with a kinetic disorder if you continue your stimulant use.