Speed, Selegiline, and Psychosis

[mitragyna]

Ok, I've been on 12 mg of Selegiline (transdermal) for about 1 year now. Just a little less than two months ago, I started taking tiny amounts of Amphetamines also. Of course, I noticed some great potentiation, but I was as safe as you could be (which still isn't safe) about combining the two.

So just in the past week or so, I've already started to get minor psychosis symptoms. Symptoms like bugs on my skin, and seeing this out of the corner of my eye. This surprised me, as I've never even gone over 30 mg in a day. What's really been worrying me is the neurotoxicity that may have resulted from this. I mean, if I'm already getting psychosis, there must be a good degree of neurotoxicity present. Are psychosis and neurotoxicity on Amps correlated at all? I'm guessing that taking Selegiline with Amphetamine would result in more toxicity than just Amphetamine alone, right? If toxicity was present, would my dopamine or serotonin neurons be more affected?

So now I really need to get this shit under control. The first things I'll be doing is stopping the speed ASAP (I already did). I'm hoping now that I stopped, the psychotic symptoms will go away. But I'm wondering if there is anything that can help with any resulted neurotoxicity that may have occured. I'm thinking things like NMDA-Antagonists, and Piracetam may be helpful. Do you guys know of anything that may help with any damage that has been done? I really appreciate it!

EDIT: I forgot to mention a few things:
-I'm also taking Suboxone. Since this can result in more dopamine in the brain, hopefully this didn't add to any toxicity.
-I have some Nuciferine on hand...maybe that may help any psychosis due to its dopamine antagonistic properties?
-Now that I think of it, wouldn't Lyrica be good for lessening neurotoxicity. After hearing the following quote, I'd think it possibly would:

Pregabalin binds potently and selectively to the alpha-2-delta subunit of “hyper-excited” voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs). The binding of pregabalin to VGCCs changes their conformation, reducing calcium influx at nerve terminals. Pregabalin only modulates the release of excitatory neurotransmitters in “hyper-excited” neurons, restoring them to normal physiological state.

 

[d-brock]

Call 911

 

[mitragyna]

I'm trying to avoid that at all costs. And I don't think that's absolutely necessary right now. Maybe seeing at neurologist would be a better idea. I could also let my psychologist know, but I don't think there's much he could do about it at this point. Plus the psychotic symptoms are very mild and they only occur at night.

 

[d-brock]

I'm trying to avoid that at all costs. And I don't think that's absolutely necessary right now. Maybe seeing at neurologist would be a better idea. I could also let my psychologist know, but I don't think there's much he could do about it at this point. Plus the psychotic symptoms are very mild and they only occur at night.

Sorry man, I don't know much of any of that. I would call your psych dr. if they're open. Or just hold a phone in your hand with 911 on speed dial. I've found myself doing that more than once. Not good man, not good...Take it easy bro, listen to some good tunes or whatever relaxes you

 

[d-brock]

Go to the hospital there could be some serious damage going on right now

 

[immad]

If I were you, I'ld at least dose a lot of antioxidants, to neutralize possibly formed free radicals.

Other than that, I can't really say anything on the matter.

 

[ebola?]

By neutralizing MAOB, the selegiline should actually reduce neurotoxicity, as the catabolism of dopamine creates free radicals.

What do you mean by "speed"? Is this d-meth (US or Australia) or racemic amp (Europe)? Only meth is really active at 5ht sites.

Anyway, a couple other bluelighters have shown psychotic symptoms when combining selegiline with a stimulant. I don't think that this necessarily denotes damage.

I'm a tad worried that your dose of selegiline is high enough to cross into MAOA inhibition though.

ebola

 

[mitragyna]

By neutralizing MAOB, the selegiline should actually reduce neurotoxicity, as the catabolism of dopamine creates free radicals.

What do you mean by "speed"? Is this d-meth (US or Australia) or racemic amp (Europe)? Only meth is really active at 5ht sites.

Anyway, a couple other bluelighters have shown psychotic symptoms when combining selegiline with a stimulant. I don't think that this necessarily denotes damage.

I'm a tad worried that your dose of selegiline is high enough to cross into MAOA inhibition though.

ebola

Well I heard it could reduce neurotoxicity too, but I'm not really sure on that matter. Hopefully!

I'm talking about Adderall (Amphetamine Mixed Salts).

I gotta go right now but I'll be back to answer your question more thoroughly.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[nuke]

That sounds like it's just acute neurotoxicity -- cessate the speed and sleep more and it should go away fine. I doubt you've done any long term damage because the MAO-B inhibition blocks the formation of oxidative radicals from dopamine.

But, yeah, relax, sleep, eat food, don't take speed, and don't worry about it unless it persists beyond a week.

 

[mitragyna]

^
That's what I wanted to hear, thanks. So would the psychotic symptoms just be from too much Dopamine that's been building up, since it's not being broken down by MAO?

 

[nuke]

Yep, that's exactly it. Insomnia also tends to invoke increases to dopamine to compensate for the lack of sleep and also increases sensitivity to it, which is why people who go on speed binges for extended periods of time go nuts. There's a strange reverse tolerance effect to stimulants after the first or second dose.

 

[mitragyna]

^^
Good to know. I'm glad I can always count on ADD for reliable, intelligent answers .

 

[IlostaMadge]

It sounds like you burnt out your D2 receptors, the ones implicated in paranoid schizophrenia, the ones (alongside other things) that are the reason for stimulant psychosis, are you getting anxiety or paranoia?

 

[mitragyna]

It sounds like you burnt out your D2 receptors, the ones implicated in paranoid schizophrenia, the ones (alongside other things) that are the reason for stimulant psychosis, are you getting anxiety or paranoia?

Paranoia, yes, definitely. I always get a bit more anxious on Amphetamine, so It's hard to tell. But I would definitely say I'm a bit more anxious than usual. Oh yeah, I'm also on Lyrica too, say that makes it even harder to tell.

It's weird though, because when I was in the psych. ward last year for depression, they put me on Seroquel mostly for anxiety. I took it for about a month, and I actually noticed the paranoia and anxiety much more when I was on it.

 

[IlostaMadge]

Don't hammer them with dopamine so much, haha, you're fucking yourself over in the long run as you're going to suffer some hefty downregulation from that use.

I would if you aren't already take DXM and magnesium alongside your dose to prevent tolerance and neurotoxicity, you only need say 50mg of dxm alongside your dose for it's NMDA antagonistic effects to be beneficial.

Also chucking anti oxidants down your neck will help, but not that much if you are inhibiting MAO B.

 

[Hammilton]

30mg of Adderall isn't a tiny dose by any means, and it's gotta be at least 2-3x as potent when you're taking the MAOI.

 

[5-HT2]

There's a strange reverse tolerance effect to stimulants after the first or second dose.

Well, it depends what aspect of the stimulant experience you're talking about. I would argue that over the course of a binge, there is a buildup of tolerance to the hedonic effects, but sensitization to the psychotomimetic ones.

 

[nuke]

^^ Ah, I'm just talking about classical stereotyped stimulant behaviour in mammals.

 

[5-HT2]

^^^of that, there is no question. Studies that have purported to demonstrate a lack of sensitization have only measured locomotion, but not the other stereotypies that can compete with locomotion. When multiple dimensions of stimulant-induced behavior are measured, evidence for sensitization is always there.

 

[Gldm]

You might want to also check for other factors from your diet. I'm on dexedrine and klonopin and found that some problems I was having that sound similar to the ones you describe were from unexpected sources. Particularly taurine (energy drinks) and aspartame (artificial sweetener).

The taurine seemed to potentiate both prescriptions (acting as either stimulant or anti-anxiety), but in an unpredictable manner that would vary with factors like diet and time of day, which caused me to go a bit haywire, with symptoms similar to amphetamine psychosis. The aspartame (which can break down into phenylalanine) seemed to cause unstable mood swings and focus problems.

Once I cut both out of my diet I found I had significantly less anxiety and concentration problems, and stopped having random peak/crash cycles. Obviously your mileage may vary and you may not be consuming either of these, but on the off chance you are, consider at least temporarily removing them as possible variables.