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Speed - Dopamine - Ritualistic

bongbudda

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2000
Messages
1,293
Location
London
I recently listened to a radio program on Radio 4 (a BBC radio channel to those not in UK) on ritualistic behaviour and there was a scientist on there who was performing experiments on mice. His comment was that when his gives the mice more dopamine then they become more habitual. I thought, could this be why long term speed users are known to be habitual?
I'd be interested in your thoughts.
 
I would think long-term speed users would have less dopamine in their system. Wouldn't speed downregulate dopamine receptors?
 
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I agree. I don't the specific program you mention, but the scientist may have meant stereotyped behavior when he said ritualistic behavior. Excess synaptic dopamine (similar to the brain activity in schizophrenics) is sometimes associated with ritualistic, stereotyped behaviors. For instance, I saw a video of a cat on an IV of methamphetamine (an actual experiment not just trailer park mischief). The cat would move its head non-stop from left to right to everywhere else, but it would continue doing this for hours and the behavior followed a pattern. The pattern of its behavior makes it stereotyped. The behavior is ritualistic in that repeated doses often are able to produce the same response as before. There are lots of other stereotypies (stereotypied behaviors) besides head-bobbing (almost any bizarre, uncontrollable, purposeless behaviors), but this is the jist of it.
 
Very informitive Abra. This was almost certainly what the scientists meant...unless the mice were dressing up in robes and developing religion. However, it would not surprise me if increased sterotyped behavior could lead to true ritualistic behavior (you make a sign to ward off evil whenever blah happens).
Also quick comment on the long term speed users. This is by no means clear. Maybe tolerance grows by downregulation of receptors so when you stop using speed for awhile your body compensates with more dopamine. This sort of thing can get very complicated so without experimental evidence I wouldn't want to even guess whether they would be more or less likely to engage in sterotyped behavior.
 
Doesn't long term pot use lead to increased dopamine (upregulation)?, and therefore be more prone to cause these kind of problems?
 
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Maybe if you jack off with an ampoule of it.
There is actually something to the idea that long term speed users are more prone to this ritualistic type behavior.
Amphetamine psychosis has been induced in experimental studies of amphetamine abusers by doses smaller than those that were originally involved in its gradual development (16, 186). In case studies, Kramer (126), Ellinwood (60) and Ellinwood and Petrie (49) demonstrated that, once an individual has experienced amphetamine paranoia, it readily reappears at lower doses or earlier in a drug run. In the 1991 study by Satel et al. (184), three-fourths of the stimulant abusers who became paranoid said these experiences clearly worsened with continued drug use, and most described a more rapid onset. Similar results were reported by Brady et al. (23). Bartlett and colleagues (15) also described increasing suspiciousness and paranoia but not increased euphoria with repeated cocaine use. In addition to the psychosis being induced by lower doses over time, even stress has been described as capable of inducing psychosis in some patients (186, 214).
The biological substrates of these progressive conditions have most often been ascribed to tolerance and/or sensitization. Tolerance is most strongly reflected by the fact that both lower animals and humans can sustain even lethal doses of amphetamine after chronic administration. Sensitization reflects the phenomenon that even though a high dose may have been necessary to induce end-stage behavioral pathology, moderate doses given over a shorter duration are able to activate the behavioral pathology. Both tolerance and sensitization are ‘black box' phenomena for which the initiating, maintaining, and reactivation mechanisms are only partially understood and at times are controversial in the literature. Even the concept of sensitization vs. tolerance and their contribution to the end-stage behaviors continue to be debated. Because sensitization can be induced by much lower doses of stimulants, some have argued that the initiation of stimulant abuse patterns is based more on an early stage of sensitization-like augmentation of conditioned behaviors, whereas the chronic evolution of psychosis more often also requires tolerance-inducing sustained high doses of amphetamine. (74, 134). Lieberman et al. (134) make the case for a tolerance/neurotoxic effects that would explain both the psychosis as well as the withdrawal burnout condition of former ‘speed freaks' (10, Utena et al., 1975).
Sensitization is a robust, extremely long-lasting effect of repeated, especially intermittent, stimulant administration. The rapidity of the establishment of sensitization is influenced by many factors, including dosing parameters, negative influence of male gonadal hormones, and the time after the last dose of amphetamine (177). With intermittent stimulant administration, there is progressive enhancement of locomotor hyperactivity and/or stereotyped behavior (194, 205). In contrast, continuous administration of amphetamine or cocaine induces a tolerance to subsequent injections for at least a week after chronic dosing, while intermittent dosing induces a reverse tolerance (30, 115, 223). Yet, high-dose (10–30 mg/kg/day), continuous administration or multi-day dosing eventually induces bizarre hyper-reactive and fragmented behavior, including fearful responsivity, which is more easily reactivated after withdrawal in a manner similar to other sensitization responses to stimulants.
http://www.acnp.org/G4/GN401000166/CH162.htm
Sensitization and tolerance are definitely more complex and less understood than most other drug-related subjects. One important point is that humans can develop tolerance to certain effects of speed (such as euphoria, anorexia, etc) while simultaneously experiencing sensitization to other effects (stereotyped, ritualistic behavior). Over time, tolerance requires that you take larger doses to get a buzz, but sensitization only needs doses smaller than what was originally used to produce effects such as stereotypies. So it is no wonder that long-term speed users often become unable to tolerate the drug effects anymore (even a small dose with minimal euphoria could produce some of the psychopathological effects that normally only occur with high doses). Still, I don't want to oversimplify the complex nature of the subject. Visit the above link if you have any questions about experiments and you can also watch some videos of laboratory animals and how they behave after being on an IV of meth for a solid week. ;)
 
SC do you mean peripherally or centrally. Dopamine isn't going to cross the BBB so injecting it is only going to produce weird effects in the periphery and not the central effects.
Even centrally it matters alot where you give it. Some studies have shown that in the nucleas accumbens dopamine is rewarding while in another area I can't remember it is aversive.
 
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