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South Africa's Nelson Mandela dies,

that is just nonsense. It was clear from the news reports last night how far things have come in SA, all thanks to the mental strength and forgiveness of one man. Sure things are far from perfect there but Mandella was the one person to actually make a difference.

This is so, so wrong.

The working people of S.A. were involved in a movement to overthrow Apartheid for decades. You think if Mandela wasn't around the rest of black South Africa and many white comrades who struggled with them would just have let Apartheid continue? Well, you're wrong.

And in the end Mandela replaced a white ruling class with a mixed race ruling class - with him at the top, of course. Getting rid of Apartheid is obviously a great thing, no argument with that.
 
No i dont think his comrades would have let Apartheid continue, all i was trying to say was that he was the clear cut undoubted figure-head of the whole movement, and willing to die for his beliefs.

There's allways going to be a ruling class, i dont think your Anarchist tendencies are ever going to gain much ground, though i do have some sympathies for and interest in some of the ideas.
 
The future is neither yours nor mine to tell. I know where I want to push things though, and I want to push them in the direction of the liberation of humanity, which is by necessity the liberation of the working class. So I will continue to do that, and make no apologies!

We're still cool though eh? <3

Anyway, here's some interesting reading about Mandela and the ANC from a libertarian communist persepective.

working class self organisation said:
I must admit to having a lump in my throat when I found out that Nelson Mandela had died (although not sure why) Whatever my thoughts are on him as a person, the ANC, or his legacy, the passing of such a towering international figure deserves honest reflection.

As a man he was loved and respected by millions around the world, as evidenced by the outpouring of grief today – some of it phoney, some genuine. As expected there is the - ‘Mandela was a terrorist’ accusations from the right wing media, - and the - Mandela was a great statesman, peacemaker, and inspiration to millions, - from pretty much everyone else.

I am no authority on Mandela’s politics or legacy so please feel free to add your own thoughts or information to this post.

How anyone with any kind of analysis can label Mandela as a terrorist is beyond me. What should the victims of one of the most despicable regimes in history have done to fight back against their oppressors, start a petition? Yes, I am sure his rap sheet has some unpleasant sounding convictions, but consideration of time, place, and context, is required.

Those who immediately use the ‘terrorist’ label are no different to those who heap huge praise on Mandela, two of whom I have spoken to today, neither of them could actually offer me any explanation as to why he was a great man, other than to say “He just was!” It seems that ‘brand Mandela’ has done its job.

As far as Mandela’s politics goes, I believe he has changed his position on things several times since the 1930’s, from ardent Stalinist to democratic socialist. As an anarchist I am not going to criticise Mandela’s early political radicalisation and views because they should be viewed in time, place, and context. However, if he defined himself as a ‘socialist’ since leaving prison, then he has failed miserably.

Again, I don’t claim any expertise on Mandela or apartheid, but to laud him as the man who ended apartheid (as many seem to be doing) seems a bit disingenuous. Surely there are many other factors and individuals that led to that change.

Mandela should be seen as the poster boy for the failure of political parties and for reformism. The ANC – whatever they consider their achievements, are nothing more than a party of gangsters, careerists, and anti-working class scumbags. Apartheid ended over twenty years ago, so what has changed? The black working class of South Africa has a new set of spivs, bosses, and politicians to oppress them.

You only have to look back on the various mine massacres by the security forces last year to see that not a lot has changed – I am given to understand that Mandela’s grandson is a part owner in one of those mines. Thirty years ago it would have been just white police officers shooting unarmed black miners in the back, now it is a mixture of white and black police officers doing the killing. Truly a massacre fit for apartheid.

Apart from an end to apartheid/segregation, has the lot of working class black South Africans improved? Not at all, unemployment, homelessness, and poverty are rife. However, there are a group in South African society who have benefited since the collapse of apartheid. They are of course the Mandela family:

“Company information showed the Mandela children and grandchildren had, over the past two decades, been involved in about 200 companies extending over a wide range of sectors, including real estate, investments, railway engineering, minerals, medical firms, fashion, and entertainment. Mandela's eldest daughter, was an active director in 16 companies, including the South African subsidiary of the Swiss multinational food giant Nestle, a shopping centre in Kimberley, two railway engineering companies, and four companies apparently engaged in mineral exploration.”

Nelson Mandela himself – who left prison penniless – has a fortune that his family are now fighting over like vultures. Clearly a far cry from the lives of the average South African who generally do not have a pot to piss in!

Anyway, Nelson Mandela has died, and these are my brief reflections.

Hopefully, there will be an in-depth and critical obituary from the South African Anarchists appearing here at some point in the coming days - http://zabalaza.net/

and more

Leonnap said:
Here's a list of useful sources to counter the barrage of myths and distortions around Nelson Mandela's life and achievements:

PA-8344449.jpg


'The Mandela Years in Power' - Patrick Bond

'Mandela v. the Working Class' - Subversion

'Mandela, Icon of Imperialism' - Latief Parker

'ANC, A Hundred Years in the Service of Capital' - Revolutionary Perspectives

'South Africa, New Declaration of Class War' - Hillel Ticktin

[i]The Politics of Race Discrimination in South Africa[/i] - Hillel Ticktin

Video: Apartheid Didn't Die - John Pilger

Inside Quatro: Uncovering the Exile History of the ANC and SWAPO

'Inside Quadro, End of an Era' - Paul Trewhela

I will have the good grace to say: RIP Nelson Mandela.
 
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of course, thats the first time you've called me so, so wrong though. If i was more informed on the subjects of Apartheid and Anarchy i may have gone to town a bit more with my reply, but as I know relatively FA about either subject Id be making a bigger idiot of myself than usual. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with anything i say, or anyone taking me to task over anything ive got wrong, as long as its not done abusively, which is never your style anyway, so of course we're still cool. %)
 
Calling you "so, so wrong" could perhaps have come across as a bit personal. Sorry. ;) Although in fact it was your statement that I was calling wrong.

If I'd thought about how best to phrase it, I might have said "This idea really needs challenged".
 
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