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Something for you (the would-be rhyming poet) should think about

I'm sorry, but I believe you guys are being condescending. I'm the lone wolf here, and Ill I've been doing is expressing my own opinion, and I will stand by it.
I've written a lot of rhyme poems, free verse poems, alliteration, etc...It's my experience that rhyming limits myself, and it begins to get campy pretty soon down the page.
I"m not saying I know the only way to make art...please, contain yourselves with this "who are you to say what's best? bullshit. I wrote an essay to express an opinion and to maybe get someone to see how I (and others) think. You may disagree with me, but I stated my opinion clearly and respectfully.

I won't get any more confrontational than this, but you've been condescending yourself, bone$aW. If you reread some of your posts you might see that your tone is at times a bit snobbish and superior.

If you really want to encourage people to do their best, being warm, friendly and open is a great way to start.
 
Amen. Telling people to write is the best way to get someone to write. Not telling them how to write.
 
(This is coming from a guy who has written hundreds of "rhymes"/raps and very little "poetry") Basically, some of what I write is poetic..but I come from a background heavily influenced by hip hop and electronic music. Both of these forms have repetitive beats and obviously hip hop is almost exclusively rhymed. I just like how they sound better than free verse.

I'm surprised this hasn't come up more as a rebuttal actually; a lot of the stuff that's posted here obviously is very influenced by hip hop and rap, and I think uses the rhyming structure really well.

I consider myself to be a decent writer, but I can't write rhymes to save my life so I have heaps of respect for people who can. Rhyming can be done really badly or innapropriately, but the same can be said for any literary technique. I don't think rhyming in and of itself is any worse than any other form of writing, it comes down to what type of writer you are personally more than anything else IMO...
 
I couldn't care less what respected writers think. Why would that be a reason to alter how one expresses themselves?

I do agree that rhyming limits you to an extent; but it also focuses you- its not as if you choose a word and then a word to rhyme it with; often its the other way around....

Rhymes are a way to confine what you say
Into nicer and easier slices to spray
forth your venom or whatever compells you to write
Be it freeverse or magickal spells or just shite.

Rolleyes.
 
Trends come and go, especially in literature and especially in poetic theory. Of course, rhyming has fallen out of style, particularly in the latter half of the 20th century -- but the historical precedent is so overwhelming I bet it will eventually make a come-back (assuming poetry doesn't die all together, which it fucking WILL NOT!).

The trouble is that lots of "would-be rhyming poets" believe that poetry and rhyming are inseparable. This is the fault of poor education on a high school and grade school level. I don't believe that teaching the poetic cannon to young people is always the best idea. In fact, it mostly just alienates good writers from poetry, for they see it as overly ornate, convoluted and didactic.

Maybe if high school teachers taught contemporary poetry, the scene wouldn't have to be so underground. Maybe poetry wouldn't have the reputation it has today. I think education is the key.

Overall, I think traditional forms and rhyming poetry represent the greatest verse in English literature. However, that is only due to its longstanding reign. The future of poetry might be entirely different.

I personally write free-verse because I feel like any sort of schematic approach to writing limits my artistic expression. However, I recognize that for other people, it helps them create a mode in which to express themselves when they otherwise would be unable to.

It's a complicated topic. This thread is fucking awesome, though! Nice job OP.
 
leiphos- I'd like to read some of your free-verse. Perhaps you could post it in this thread.

If the mods are ok with this, I like to get writers to post an example of their best/favorite rhyming poem and then an example of their/favorite non-rhyming (free verse, sonnet, etc.) poem. It might be kinda cool.
 
Okay, not all time favourites because I don't believe in them but:

Dylan Thomas- Do Not Go Gentle Into that Good Night

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.



Charles Bukowski-Bluebird

there's a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I'm too tough for him,
I say, stay in there, I'm not going
to let anybody see
you.
there's a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I pour whiskey on him and inhale
cigarette smoke
and the whores and the bartenders
and the grocery clerks
never know that
he's
in there.

there's a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I'm too tough for him,
I say,
stay down, do you want to mess
me up?
you want to screw up the
works?
you want to blow my book sales in
Europe?
there's a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I'm too clever, I only let him out
at night sometimes
when everybody's asleep.
I say, I know that you're there,
so don't be
sad.
then I put him back,
but he's singing a little
in there, I haven't quite let him
die
and we sleep together like
that
with our
secret pact
and it's nice enough to
make a man
weep, but I don't
weep, do
you?

Apples and oranges, each beautiful.
 
I'm curious why people think that the rhyming poem is the standard poem. Rhymes were used before the written word as a way to remember facts and important information such as the name of the new prince or the day that Goliath was defeated, etc. Of course, rhyming is used 99% of the time in popular/modern music, so I could see how the novice (or even veteran) might assume that a rhyming poem is the way to approach writing poetry. But I beg all would-be-poets to stop it.

As I said, rhyming was initially used as a way to remember. Arguably, in popular song, rhymes are used in a similar function: to remember complex/lengthy lyrical passages by putting them to a rhythm that flows and bounces from word to word with the same sounding last syllable. This makes sense in music.

But the modern day (would-be) poet needs to reach a certain maturity when it comes to the magnificent craft of arranging language as a means of expression (expressing whatever the hell they want to, of course; high art can and should grapple with the vulgar, sexual, insensitive lower brain). I humbly (but not singly) believe the process of rhyming is counter intuitive to way the artist's mind functions. When you try to find a word that rhymes with a previous phrase, obviously you are limiting your choice os vocabulary. But what's worse, you are demeaning the standing of your own work.

For most published poets (who are sadly not too celebrated or respected....or read), rhyming is not a function they utilize. My writing professor/mentor was the resident poet at the University of New Orleans, once the dean of the school I attend in California, and published close to a hundred poems. None of them have any resemblance to Dr. Suess, let alone Emily Dickenson. Google him: Richard Speakes.

But let me end with this: I do not want to take on the stance of the higher art snob, where all lower forms are trashy and irrelevant. And also not to mention the hundreds of classic poets/writers who did use a lot of rhyming in their works. My goal here is to persuade the would-be-poet to utilize their own vocabulary and inspiration and truly bring out their best of work. I assure you, your best work is not to be found by putting 'night' and 'might' at the end of two separate lines. When you think too hard as to what to rhyme a word with, you are distracting your self, and ultimately limiting your potential. Besides, to the trained reader and the veteran poet, your work will usually look like child's play.

Just something to consider. I hope a discussion might follow? I'm curious what you think.

-from a maturing poet/close reader in-training

Complete bullshit!...

I hate the way you put down people that chose to make thier poetry rhyme. A good poet should be able to find that syllable that matches the last and keep it within the context... thats the art in it for Christ sake.
 
"Complete bullshit!..."

Donnie, I wrote an opinionated essay. Either take it as it is, or at least write a thoughtful response and/or argument/rebuttal. Even if you don't agree with me at all, you could at least respect my opinion, which was clearly written and didn't insult anyone in particular. I totally get people disagreeing with me, but my points of argument are clear. Why don't you pick something from my text, instead of paraphrasing my words into your own generic statement which misses my point.

swilow- I don't think you even read my OP.

I was thinking that poets could post their own two poems: one in any kind of rhyming pattern and one free verse/any other style besides rhyming. I think it would be interesting to compare, especially those who consider rhyme poems to be better or at least equal to free verse/non-rhyming poems.
 
Hmm. This thread is massively off-putting to me. I like writing RHYMING poems- yet they are childish?

Hmm.

"I may disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire I disagree with the OP but he is entitled to his opinion.
 
So now I should construct my comments the way you see fit also?

I honestly didn't think your uneducated drivel merited an essay as a reply, so I put my point across as I would have in person.
 
psycosynthesis (and others):

I've studied "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night" more than once and wrote an analysis paper on it in freshman year. It is not just about the rhyme scheme as an aesthetic trick. The reason Thomas used the villanelle form is because he wanted to emphasize a thematic progression in the poem. The poem, if you notice, becomes darker, and more morbid, as it continues. The repetition of the rhyming refrains (which are expressions of the speaker's desire for his father not to die) serve as a counterpoint for the poem's indication that the father is indeed dying, and that life in general always comes to an end.

It is not rap-like in its intention at all; it is not rhyming for the sake of rhyming. It is poetry with a thought-out schematic. The choice of villanelle is brilliant on Thomas's part, but it doesn't always work, just like rhyming poetry as a whole doesn't always work. It has to used effectively, and for a specific purpose.
 
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