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Something for you (the would-be rhyming poet) should think about

bone$aW

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
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I'm curious why people think that the rhyming poem is the standard poem. Rhymes were used before the written word as a way to remember facts and important information such as the name of the new prince or the day that Goliath was defeated, etc. Of course, rhyming is used 99% of the time in popular/modern music, so I could see how the novice (or even veteran) might assume that a rhyming poem is the way to approach writing poetry. But I beg all would-be-poets to stop it.

As I said, rhyming was initially used as a way to remember. Arguably, in popular song, rhymes are used in a similar function: to remember complex/lengthy lyrical passages by putting them to a rhythm that flows and bounces from word to word with the same sounding last syllable. This makes sense in music.

But the modern day (would-be) poet needs to reach a certain maturity when it comes to the magnificent craft of arranging language as a means of expression (expressing whatever the hell they want to, of course; high art can and should grapple with the vulgar, sexual, insensitive lower brain). I humbly (but not singly) believe the process of rhyming is counter intuitive to way the artist's mind functions. When you try to find a word that rhymes with a previous phrase, obviously you are limiting your choice os vocabulary. But what's worse, you are demeaning the standing of your own work.

For most published poets (who are sadly not too celebrated or respected....or read), rhyming is not a function they utilize. My writing professor/mentor was the resident poet at the University of New Orleans, once the dean of the school I attend in California, and published close to a hundred poems. None of them have any resemblance to Dr. Suess, let alone Emily Dickenson. Google him: Richard Speakes.

But let me end with this: I do not want to take on the stance of the higher art snob, where all lower forms are trashy and irrelevant. And also not to mention the hundreds of classic poets/writers who did use a lot of rhyming in their works. My goal here is to persuade the would-be-poet to utilize their own vocabulary and inspiration and truly bring out their best of work. I assure you, your best work is not to be found by putting 'night' and 'might' at the end of two separate lines. When you think too hard as to what to rhyme a word with, you are distracting your self, and ultimately limiting your potential. Besides, to the trained reader and the veteran poet, your work will usually look like child's play.

Just something to consider. I hope a discussion might follow? I'm curious what you think.

-from a maturing poet/close reader in-training
 
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Rhyming also invites a certain cadence and flow that invites the reader to read the poem as intended. I write rhyming because rhyming is how I write. I write rhymeless because rhymeless is how I write. I write how I write. Freedom is what comes, and if that is rhyming, rhyming it shall be.
 
I think if you insist on rhyming, then the poem should be read aloud. I believe that's the only way that it works. Poems were meant to be read a loud. Look up 'the troubadours' and James Burke's The Day the Universe Changed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NGp4mdDKb4 if you're impatient, go to the time 7:11 on the video and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I know I'm going to get shit from people who insist on rhyming. I just want you to know that a lot of people kind of look down (to be blunt) at the rhyme poem. I suppose my essay is mainly directed to those who are considering a career in writing creatively.
 
Isn't the important part the spirit and the drive and not one man's insistence upon what should be?
 
Each to their own. I find that there is a certain beauty to some of the metered forms if they are well constructed. Sonnets of both sorts, Villanelles and Ghazals are a joy to read at times. They are intended to be read aloud too and due to their rhythm could be constituted as a form of music, which I believe poetry to be an extension of.

It's good to get to know the rules of poetry before you start to break 'em. Playing with form (or abandoning it altogether) is fun though.
 
Sometimes when I write a poem it has a certain "beat" in my head, a certain rhythm, and so to me it comes across as a song. And as songs often rhyme, I suppose this is why such poems of mine fall into rhyming schemes as well. I was almost exclusively a rhymer when it came to poetry until my creative writing class in college got me writing free-verse. I like both styles, personally.

Though it is considered immature by many to write poems that rhyme, especially when writing professionally (but, fuck, are their really professional poets anymore?), I've never been one for the status quo. I don't force a rhyme, of course, but if that's how it comes to me, that's how I spill it. To do otherwise would be inauthentic in my opinion. To get something published, you would probably want to submit merely free-verse poems, of course, but I think the downgrading of rhyming I caught in my creative writing class was a bit ridiculous.

I mean, as much writing free-verse broadens the poets choice with respect to what words might be used (a freedom I often enjoy), it is also true that a structure such as rhyming can stimulate certain creative avenues within the poem that would otherwise remain latent (as I have myself experienced). You could spend twenty minutes trying to find a word that rhymes with orange and have nothing to show for it save for a massive headache, true, but if you're determined to finish the poem you're going to have to reword the previous line, and that may tug the whole direction of the poem in an unforeseen direction -- though that's not to say it would fail to be a satisfying one.

And though rhyming is looked down upon in poetry nowadays, alliteration within free-verse is not, though it can force restraints similar to those imposed by rhyming upon the writer. Thinking outside one's own present "box" is often prompted by trying to work within or around a pre-established box, regardless as to whether that pre-established box was previously set up by you and you're too stubborn to change it (such as a metaphor you set up in the opening lines of the poem and feel determined to expand upon) or set up by a traditional technique or pattern (a haiku, for instance, or alliteration, or rhyming).

You can tell when rhyming is forced. I've done it. It's irritating reading over the poem when that's the case and I get really frustrated with myself. But sometimes it just flows out that way, and it sounds good when it does; it has a nice rhythm, and I think it can be healthy for one's creative process to think within that rigid framework, too. It's just one tool in the shed, and it shouldn't be used exclusively, of course, but we shouldn't just leave it hanging, either.
 
sometimes my syntax is out when i sit and just type because my mind is quicker than my hands.
even in real life i dont speak my thoughts how i get to write them in every case.

i love to live
i love to learn
i live to love
i live to learn
 
It's just one tool in the shed, and it shouldn't be used exclusively, of course, but we shouldn't just leave it hanging, either.

Exactly. I use rhyme occasionally for emphasis or if I just want to be playful.

For some beginning poets, it seems as if rhyme is just about the only tool they have in the shed. And often the only kind of rhyme they use is exact end-rhyme. They don't play around with internal rhyme, slant rhyme (Cf. Emily Dickinson), pararhyme (Cf. Wilfred Owen), etc. Often they have no sense of rhythm/metre, which makes their rhymes sound clunky and awkward. Like you say bone$law, rhyme can become something imposed upon the poem, restricting it rather than enhancing its sound and impact.

bones$aw said:
And though rhyming is looked down upon in poetry nowadays, alliteration within free-verse is not

Rhyme may be looked down upon when it's used naively, but consider how contemporary poets such as Charles Bernstein and John Ashbery have used rhyme. They don't use it all the time, and maybe sometimes they use it with tongue in cheek, but they aren't afraid to use it. Or check out the Australian poet Jordie Albiston. Then there's Adam Fieled, a young 'post-avant' poet who writes tough, edgy poems. He uses rhyme often, and well.

I'd say if some of the younger poets in Words are serious about writing poetry, then they should read widely, from classical poetry through to the most recent experiments. They need to learn about how poems are constructed and the possibilities available to the poet - then experiment with those possibilities. Technical knowledge and understanding of language are vital, even if it's a case of 'learning to rules in order to break them'.
 
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well, I have Asperger's Disorder, so a lot of the times I rhyme just to pattern the poem. When I free verse it, it's weird territory for me.
 
Les Murray has Asperger's. He's an Australian poet who some critics consider to be amongst the greatest living English-language poets. And he uses rhyme, though not all of the time. ;) He's a self-proclaimed redneck, and not all of his work is exactly my cup of tea - but he's still a brilliant poet.
 
Awesome...it's just that with me, the English language seems to be a single unit I can shape to my emotions...don't know if that adds to the conversation, but that's how I write...forget breaking convention "because it's more mature"...wouldn't that make it conventional? Isn't the mark of a mature poet depth and emotion, no matter what verse he uses? Sorry, rant.:)
 
Like the way I play my guitar from my soul and my heart. It's all about feeling it and flowing not intellect and style
 
(This is coming from a guy who has written hundreds of "rhymes"/raps and very little "poetry") Basically, some of what I write is poetic..but I come from a background heavily influenced by hip hop and electronic music. Both of these forms have repetitive beats and obviously hip hop is almost exclusively rhymed. I just like how they sound better than free verse.

I do see your point however and will hopefully take the time to flex my poetic muscle in the future.
 
well, I'm glad I got such impassioned responses. Maybe it's just a personal preference, and I guess in the academic world it's sort of frowned upon. But still, for me, rhymes distract and mickeymouse the ability of a poem to create that "dreaming awake" affect.
 
bone$aW, who are you to say what's best?

Categorically slamming rhyming seems shortsighted.

I generally don't like poems that use rhyming, but that doesn't mean that rhyming poems are immature, child's play, limited, Dr. Seuss, etc. It just means that I don't like them.
 
I'm glad everyone else has an opinion:!.... Listen, everyone's entitled to one, but I still stand by what I said. Like I've said again and again....this is just what I think, and what some other writers/poets I respect think.

All I was trying to do was to get people to consider getting off the rhyme crutch, which I firmly believe it is: a crutch. You can go on and write juvenile (my opinion) poems, but I firmly believe you will never reach higher states of recognition and/or publishing contracts....which is fine, really. Whatever really works for you, sincerely. I'm just trying to dispel some ignorance that I often see in amateur writing.
 
Your attitude is rather condescending. Maybe you should write rhyme now and compare it to free verse a year ago and tell me about maturity.
 
I'm sorry, but I believe you guys are being condescending. I'm the lone wolf here, and Ill I've been doing is expressing my own opinion, and I will stand by it.
I've written a lot of rhyme poems, free verse poems, alliteration, etc...It's my experience that rhyming limits myself, and it begins to get campy pretty soon down the page.
I"m not saying I know the only way to make art...please, contain yourselves with this "who are you to say what's best? bullshit. I wrote an essay to express an opinion and to maybe get someone to see how I (and others) think. You may disagree with me, but I stated my opinion clearly and respectfully.
 
Fair enough. But you can't expect to make broad, sweeping generalizations and call other people's poetry juvenille and not expect a backlash.
 
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