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Somebody explain to me this whole thing against 'snitching'

Lacey k, thank you for that last post. That's exactly the reply I was looking for.

It occurs to me that there are some tightly-knit groups of people (in every society) that have their own internal justice systems, which take priority over the civil justice systems provided by the national and local governments. Someone in one of these groups who appeals to the civil justice system in order to solve in-group disputes is considered a traitor to the group. Not only has he aired the group's dirty laundry to the larger world where they're trying to look good, but he obviously does not trust his own people to mete out justice, which could likely mean he does not share their values. Why the hell WOULD the group want him around?

I remember reading a newspaper article about a Romany (Gypsy) fortune teller in California, whose shop was trashed by a rival Romany fortune teller, who did not appreciate someone else setting up shop so close to her and taking away market share. Normally the Romany have their own court of elders who handle disputes like this inside their own community. But the owner of the trashed store instead went to the police. She got the lady who trashed her store put in jail. But she was shunned from her community.

I've heard similar things about Pakistani immigrants in Britain who go to the authorities about instances of spousal abuse, forced marriage, and visa sponsorship fraud within their community.

I think you'll find a similar system -- an internal (and higher) system of justice, and a 'snitch' stigma on members who go around it -- in any community who have historical reason to believe that the makers and enforcers of national law do not share their values and/or do not have their best interests in mind.
 
hoptis said:
I wouldn't involve police in a drug matter but anything else, yes.
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+1

"Snitching" to me has always seemed to mean fucking someone over just so you can get yourself out of trouble. Setting up your pot dealer because you got caught with a joint is snitching. Picking a mugger out of a line-up isn't.
 
phatass said:
If you're the VICTIM of the crime e.g. a mugging then its not snitching.... snitching is getting caucht e.g. with weed and snitching on your dealer... at least thats how i see it....
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Very well said. In 99.95% of all cases people snitch when crack under the pressure in an interrogation by the police. Some snitching happens also when people hold grudges on each other albeit it is rare.

If you've chosen a life-style that includes dealing with illegal substances you must have known beforehand what the consequences are of getting caught.
 
First off i am not a noob, i have been here many times and seem always to get banned for my harsh approaches on a variety of subjects.
The majority of you claim some stop snitching movement not realizing that the game of sort revolves around a such aspect. Explain. EVERY big fish wants to bring other fish down so they can make more $. Its a practice that has ran in the game as long as the game has been around. The very people that promote such things ARE the first to fold on you, and someone ALWAYS needs to be the fold man. so why not you, the down loyal YOU?
second. the aspect of ghetto and its social structures. Everyone in the ghetto has a choice. A choice not to fuck, a choice to wear a condom or take birth control to prevent a sea of baby mothers and angry hopeless fathers. They have a choice on how to conduct their actions in school or on the street. They have a choice of trying to look fly and flossy or to buy food for their family. The excuse of being or living in the ghetto being a weak one me being a perfect example of growing up in thr ghetto.
Last but not least. The subject of trusting the govenment with your affairs is a deep one and i am sure it will become a different thread BUT if you want to trust your life to the same people that supply us with 24hr lies in the media, bad drugs, contaminated food, e.t.c while they live on a hill and laugh all the way to the bank (which they own) then my friend thats your choice...
 
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I thought not snitching was about not ratting out coconspirators, so to speak. Like if you get caught with drugs and rat out your dealer. Justice and being a little bitch rat are two different things in my opinion. If one does you wrong your entitled to justice. If you rat someone out its because you have a weak soul (IMO).
 
Snop snitchin' is basically why most murders in Baltimore's inner city never get solved. Someone was gunned down a few months ago in front of a church with dozens of witnesses.. no one saw anything.

Snitching is deadly business and that was a campaign by criminals or people wishing to profit off of it. Snitch's houses have been firebombed and people do get murdered for so much as naming a name off the record. The shit on 'The Wire' is pretty fuckin true guys. At least as far as Baltimore goes.
 
lacey k said:
To me its simple. You choose to do certain things and live a certain way. you are living outside the law. Now the law is not what governs you. Now you are in a new world and in that world certain things are different and you got to follow the laws that are a part of this new world.

And if you have ever been snitched on then you will know the feeling of why you never want to do it. I am facing jail time right now which i am sure i could get reduced if i was to roll on somebody but that aint somethin ima consider. My co defendants hate me they want to make it lights out for me but I still aint gonna give up no information about nothing. My answer is I dont know. I am not gonna put someone else thru the shit that I been thru Ill tell you that much. When you are involved in this shit you cant just say "Time out. I dont want to play any more" Its a game that has very real consequences and sometimes when you roll the dice it just dont work out. you got to cut your losses and deal with it, and thats how it is in the entire life, you enter the underground world where shit aint wat it seems and the only laws are the rules made by the people who break the real laws, youre dealin with a different kind of justice, you dont use the cops to handle all your loose ends. Basically im saying you go against the law, youre in a different position now and in that position the real laws are no longer your laws. You cant pick and choose you got to play the game by the rules of the game that you are in, and no goin back.
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That was a damn good explanation, I think I'm just gonna add my 2cents.
When you're buying,using,selling drugs what ever, you're doing something illegal.Now if the person selling gets caught selling whatever substance, they're going to jail for a long time.

They have to give you a certain amount of trust that your a stand up person, and aren't going to rat them out and possibly get them sent away to jail, which would not only mess up their life, but the life of their wife,kids,mom,dad etc. all because they were doing something the government deems wrong. then for them to give you their trust and you to shit on them like that and pull them down for whatever reason is just wrong.

Its like cheating at a game, except in this game, the loser can lose his life, among various other possibilities. Once you're performing illegal activities, its just disrespectful to break the code of conduct. I'm not saying everyone has to fight and bust buddys head, I'm actually pretty anti-violence. Violence is always my last resort. But some people just don't seem to be able to get shit in their head without a bit of a physical beating. Ratting someone out is like being real two-faced. Saying your about this and you're really about other shit. Your not a stand up guy, you don't care about these other people or respect them or what they've done for you, your just out for yourself and your best interest and thats not a very endearing quality. Another thing is,you did whatever you did, you take your punishment if you want but don't pull others into your shit pile.

Now as far as personal Justice goes, as someone who's been to prison, jails a joke. Fuck i got out a month ago, it just made me worse mentally, and I tried to avoid most of the politics.and you see thats what the drug network is, its politics, its an alliance, similar to United Nations, all the consumers and suppliers need to follow a general code of conduct to keep each other happy,prices at decent rates(depending if your guys honest or not),a steady flow of product,etc. This is a service just like any other company. These people serve people what they want, 'n then get shit on when they get ratted out.
Now in the states, someone gets busted with drugs and they're quite possibly looking at a large amount of time out of their lives, away from friends,family,freedom all because buddy couldn't just man up and take it solo.

Now, I'm gonna move on from that abit....I know of many people(Me included) who don't give a fuck if a real criminal gets ratted out. What I mean by a real criminal is a Rapist,Pedophile,Sexual predator,Women beaters, serial killer with just random killings etc. The thing is though, like I said Jail sentences are fucking jokes. Especially for those in P.C. So sometimes when the crimes particularly heinous or/and goes against someones personal beliefs, they feel it would be better to give the person real punishment and therefore, real justice occurs.Personally I'd easily throw the rest of my life away to take out a child molester or child killer.

They should be automatic death sentence. If someone like that gets beat, or killed I could give a fuck less.The real travesty is that these scumbags often get off with less hefty a charge then the drug dealer,or guy who assaulted the car thief. and that brings me to assaults. I catch a guy trying to steal something from me, he's disrespected the sanctity of my personal space, my home, my car, my living area whatever. Now, I could call the cops and have him out there one the streets pretty quick pullin the same shit,or I can beat the piss and shit out of him, and leave that experience in his mind.

Now, maybe I can't find my car thats stolen , yeah I'll call the police, will I lay charges, probably not, one cause I live the type of life where thats looked down on, two cause I know how it feels to be ratted out and go to jail, its fucking sucks. I can deal with it myself, and at least keep that guy away from my friends and family as well as myself. Now when it comes to someone getting beat up, 9 times out of ten the guy deserves it, or the fight was consensual. I don't know both sides of the story, I sure as hell ain't takin a side and rattin someone out.Its not any of my business, its between buddy and buddy, who knows what the problem is.

Its just the way I was raised.If you can deal with your problems, you deal with your problems, if they're too big get help from friends. Like has already been said, if you've ever been ratted out for anything, you iknow the feeling of betrayal that comes with it.In my views, ratting out a thief(who stole from you directly and you can't get it back yourself),sexual predator,pedophile,serial killer,rapist, and the likes is snitching and its fine. But "Street" Justice is good for these scumbags too. But ratting on drug connects is ratting.

You just don't do it. But I'm not gonna judge the O.P or anyone like him nor do I go a problem with them. We're just built different, we're totally different breeds, and we probably wouldn't be cool to hang together.But he lives his way and I live mine. Hell I don't know, maybe I'm fucked up but my way just feels right to me. Hell take out the maybe, I know I'm fucked up but that doesn't matter.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.
 
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Okay this is how it goes in my eyes.

One time I was picked up with weed I had like a quarter. So I'm luckily underage by about four days at the time, and I get picked up by undercovers in my black friend's big ass pimp caddy, in the alley, as he goes into his buddy's house to get the scale. Plan was to go back to his crib then weigh me off my coke, then I'd go. Anyway they caught us and he was clean but I was dirty.

They gave me a choice, either snitch on him and they'll drop my charge or else they'll go ahead and I'll have to go to court and what not.

My choice:
send my friend to prison for several years of his life
OR
take responsibility like a real man would and take the consequences

I fed the cops bullshit about how I'd cooperate, and then once they let me out never spoke to them again. The detective gave me her number, I deleted it.

I'm a skinny white ass motherfucker, so it isn't like I'm gonna get shot if I rat out dude, but me personally, I couldn't live with myself. When I'm locked in a cage it drives me CRAZY and I haven't even been to county thanks to the lawyer.

Later on when I got picked up as an adult, my coke dealer boy came to bail me out. How many coke dealers gonna bail their custies out? He knew that I coulda fucked him, and refused, so he helped me out, and we ended up becoming friends rather than business associates.

---

Now I know this dude R. He got caught coppin dope in the ghetto. The narcs told him to go cop from a spot, and then they'd arrest the spot boys and then let him go WITH his dope, and he did it. He just sent those boys away for a long time. I just can't respect him after I heard that.

Maybe it's just my feeling that what goes around comes around, but even if you snitch on some random boy at the spot, you're still likely consigning him/her to several years in the pen just cause he's poor and black and doesn't have the money for a lawyer and was in the wrong damn place at the wrong damn time. That's twice as bad as snitching on somebody who's got the cash to get off if you ask me.

But snitching in general just goes against my moral code.

Think of it this way:

If positions were reversed what would you want them to do to you?

What makes your life worth more than that of the object of your snitching?

I've heard people talk like 'Oh they're just gutter trash, they are ignorant, they would rob you with a second's chance, blah blah' in reference to the boys on the corner.

I say that there's no difference between me and D on the corner that Imma go see after I finish writing up this post. He had the misfortune to be born poor and black, which means that the powers that be want to make life hard for him. That's just luck of the draw. I was lucky enough to be born white middle class. But our positions could have easily been reversed. We're both worth equally much, as free living humans. So if we're worth the same, if we are both men, then how can I consign him to prison to keep my ass out of the fire? To do so would be evil, plain and simple.
 
There is a good explanation on one of those utube anti-stop snitching videos. I cant find the link but the guy described it as follows:

Lets say you and me sell crack. I get busted. Now it'd be snitching if i told the cops about you because together you and me are both involved in the same criminal stuff. We're doing illegal stuff together. and in this situation i think"snitching" is wrong.

BUT it's not "snitching" if someone who is not involved in the given criminal act whatsoever tells the cops about some people down the street selling crack.

I don't know if i described it clearly but basically, if you're partners in crime* (IMO) you shouldn't tell the cops about you criminal partner(s). If you have nothing to do with the illegal activity you have no obligation to protect people who are involved.

*by partners in crime I mean that you and me are running some type of illegal stuff together....not that we're both drug users.
 
Let's look at my current situation...

I'm a 22 year old straight A college student who was not only snitched on, but set-up twice from a former good friend and am now charged with 2 felonies which both hold 2 mandatory minimum sentences....One for 2 sugarcubes of LSD and one for arrainging for the sale of 50 molly....

I didn't make any money from teh transactions and was simply "helping a so-called friend out"...now I'm facing years upstate---it just doesn't seem right or humane in my eyes...

I was just forced to drop 6 college courses because I was court ordered to detox from benzos at a hospital/rehab all while the snitch got nothing!!!!

I refused to cooperate with the police and feel that all snitches should die a slow and horrible death...I'm currently battling profound thoughts of homicide and suicide..hopefully, i don't act on them but I don't know.
 
I think that taking the law into you're own hands is romantic. Until the law enforcement officer sits with me and the converstion is over "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK."

1) I can tolerate the people around me. I've thought about and almost brung fliers to my new neighbors at times with the text "talk to me BEFORE you call the l.e.o"

2) Current correction & habilitation for the "criminal" is a fucking joke.

3) I know what money is.

4) I have excellent ideas on what to do.

5) Defending property is sexy.

6) I'm a self reformed criminal.

7) My life is limited to goverment insurance cause' of the concept of "free" stuff. i.e. stealin'
 
For me it is simple, snitching only applies to when you are dobbing someone else in to get out of trouble for your own shit you got busted for. To a lesser extent if you are just being a meddling fuckwad and no crime was committed against you or anyone close to you and you just dobbing to be a dipshit.

I don't believe in all this street justice bullshit like its dishonourable to be calling the cops if a serious crime is committed against you. I understand fully where people from the ghetto are coming from and I don't hold those beliefs against people in those circumstances but too many people who didn't grow up in that life just wanna act all thug and hard by saying you can't go to the cops for shit.

I definately disagree with the notion of because someone chooses to do drugs they are living outside the law and therefore should sort everything out with violence and shit, that is just retarded.

There is a difference between breaking unjust laws and just laws, there is no good reason why we shouldn't be able to get high on drugs our Governments deem unsuitable but we can get drunk or smoke cigarettes or kids being prescribed amphetamines before they are even finished in primary (elementary) school.

There are many good reasons why people cannot and should not be allowed to go seeking vigilante justice through the use of violence, for instance the person who had the crime commited towards them is going to have a biased view towards the severity of punishment against the person who stole from them or whatever. Also you can't measure out a beating like you can a prison sentence, people can get killed by accident over small and stupid shit that deserved to be punished but not killed or put in a coma over. There would be so many more hospitalizations and murders if everyone applied this "stop snitching, seek vigilante justice" mentality.

So as long as you ain't dogging on your dealer because you got busted with a quarter sack of buds or getting a reduced sentence on an armed robbery that only your DNA was found at the scene by dobbing in your co conspirators, shit like that then its not snitching it is just using the police for what they are there for.
 
As far as drugs are concerned, i will not narc on people.....

Now if i see a crime in progress that someone should fucking know about, i will call the cops...

Like one night i was on the way back from the head shop with a friend of mine and we are going north on the interstate.... My friend says "look in the south lane behind us... are those headlights?" lo and behold i see a guy hauling ass up the highway in the wrong direction at around 70 miles per hour....

Your damn right i called the cops....

I almost wanted to figure out who to call to report it after seeing someone throw some trash out of their window next to a sign that said "No littering Fine of $1000" For the simple reason that i have been that guy on the highway wearing the little orange vest picking up garbage all day.... It sucks balls, do not make these peoples lives suck any more than they do, if they see you do it they will probably try to make your life suck just as much...

If someone snitching on me resulted in my incarceration.... They better hide damn well before i get out... I am normally a pretty easygoing guy, but if you manage to piss me off im one of those people who will take things a little too far... I get sent to jail for years at a time, that's going to cost whoever put me there more than they could ever imagine...
 
Is anyone here NOT a drug user? Have you not been paying attention to the media and government press releases all your lives?

Your own government has declared a fucking war on YOU. They call it the "War on Drugs", but as drug users they've sworn to go after us and take us down. Every drug user should treat the police and criminal justice system like a foreign military enemy, and do their part to make it ineffective and eventually destroy it.

Unless they decide to give up their war on us and surrender.

I see collaborating with US/UK police and prosecutors on just about anything as worse than collaborating with Al Qaeda on terrorist bombings.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
I think you'll find a similar system -- an internal (and higher) system of justice, and a 'snitch' stigma on members who go around it -- in any community who have historical reason to believe that the makers and enforcers of national law do not share their values and/or do not have their best interests in mind.
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This is the heart of the matter. The makers and enforcers of national law DON'T share most peoples' values and have the worst interests of most people in mind. The only people being protected by criminal law are the rich and powerful, from the rest of us.
 
I just don't understand how anyone can ruin someone's life because they fucked up with drugs. It was your mistake. Deal with it. Let's no lie to ourselves. Drugs are illegal. The second we enter this underworld we pretty much say, "Hey, I know this is illegal, but I don't care. I want to do this."
 
Coolio I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I hold a lot of contempt for cops and the justice system and I strongly want to see drugs legalized. However trying to undermine the justice system in anyway possible is retarded, what cost is the legalization of drugs worth to you? Rapes and murders going unsolved? Drug users going to prison for years at a time and having their lives ruined because they felt compelled to use violence to gain street justice instead of using legal avenues?

That situation makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE, even if you considered that price worth our agenda of drugs being legalized (I personally am not that self interested) it is senseless because it would in no way at all help towards the cause of drug law reform.
 
drug_mentor said:
For me it is simple, snitching only applies to when you are dobbing someone else in to get out of trouble for your own shit you got busted for. To a lesser extent if you are just being a meddling fuckwad and no crime was committed against you or anyone close to you and you just dobbing to be a dipshit.

I don't believe in all this street justice bullshit like its dishonourable to be calling the cops if a serious crime is committed against you. I understand fully where people from the ghetto are coming from and I don't hold those beliefs against people in those circumstances but too many people who didn't grow up in that life just wanna act all thug and hard by saying you can't go to the cops for shit.

I definately disagree with the notion of because someone chooses to do drugs they are living outside the law and therefore should sort everything out with violence and shit, that is just retarded.

There is a difference between breaking unjust laws and just laws, there is no good reason why we shouldn't be able to get high on drugs our Governments deem unsuitable but we can get drunk or smoke cigarettes or kids being prescribed amphetamines before they are even finished in primary (elementary) school.

There are many good reasons why people cannot and should not be allowed to go seeking vigilante justice through the use of violence, for instance the person who had the crime commited towards them is going to have a biased view towards the severity of punishment against the person who stole from them or whatever. Also you can't measure out a beating like you can a prison sentence, people can get killed by accident over small and stupid shit that deserved to be punished but not killed or put in a coma over. There would be so many more hospitalizations and murders if everyone applied this "stop snitching, seek vigilante justice" mentality.

So as long as you ain't dogging on your dealer because you got busted with a quarter sack of buds or getting a reduced sentence on an armed robbery that only your DNA was found at the scene by dobbing in your co conspirators, shit like that then its not snitching it is just using the police for what they are there for.
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I agree with this post completely.
 
Nobody likes a snitch, even when the matter is not criminal.

A snitch will NEVER get respect from ANYONE because snitching is a proof that the person can't be trusted with any information.

Most times when someone snitch, even if its legitimate info, the people to whom they gave said info will not trust them in the end. Its a lose-lose situation

In my opinion there is only ONE good reason to snitch: to save many lives
 
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