Some advice on tripping

[Mr Blonde]

^ A fatty liver will affect pro-drugs (drugs that need to be metabolized to have effect, e.g. codeine) and the elimination of drugs in your system. I don't think a fatty liver would affect your experience of LSD though...

As an interesting side note, alcoholics usually have enlarged livers with higher enzymes counts and are known to metabolize pro-drugs extensively, so for example; they metabolize codeine into morphine at a higher rate.

 

[Why_not ?]

I'm no expert, but are you saying any drug that can cross the blood brain barrier would not need the liver ? But everything else would to work ?

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ No, not at all. Let me explain a bit better.

A pro-drug needs to be metabolized by the liver before it takes effect generally. Take codeine for example; if you are deficient in the liver enzyme CYP2D6 which metabolizes it to morphine, codeine won't do much for you apart from giving you a big histamine reaction which it does pretty damn well by itself.

Heroin is also a pro-drug. It can also be referred to as 3,6-diacetylmorphine. Heroin though, is metabolized in the brain where the two major metabolites are morphine and 6-monoacetylmorphine. It is these compounds which give the euphoric and analgesic effect.

However, something like morphine doesn't need to be metabolized before it works in the brain. Put it in your blood stream either orally, nasally, anally or via IV and it crosses the BBB fairly quickly (not as fast as heroin), binds to the receptors and does it's job.

So basically, if you have a fatty liver that is in such a condition that it is affecting your metabolism and not letting it happen correctly, then certain pro-drugs may not work as they are not being metabolized into the active compound at a sufficient rate.

Though as I mentioned, in chronic alcoholics they can sometimes metabolize compounds extensively meaning a greater effect from a pro-drug though probably lasting shorter as it is metabolized quicker.

I hope that makes sense, if it doesn't let me know.

As for the blood-brain-barrier, well codeine can cross it already though not so well. It's just that codeine itself doesn't have much affinity for the opioid receptors. If you injected codeine IV for example, it would not be euphoric. In fact it would be quite dangerous, due to the massive histamine reaction it would case and could lead to a pulmonary embolism.

 

[Why_not ?]

I understand pretty much everything you said as my wife is an RN and I have an interest in biology and how amazing the human body is. Though I thought what the Doc had to say made alot of sense about some of my experiences I've had compared to others. But hey thanks for taking the time to explain it in such depth, you seem very knowledgeable. Do you have a medical background or is Google your main friend ? Also the Doc gave me some newish type anti-depressants that don't require the liver to metabolise it in order for it to work. As previously every single one has basically made very little difference, it will be interesting to see if this makes a bigger difference. I hope so, as i have suffered depression to every degree since I was 18yo when I had glandular fever and shingles both at the same time. And I have been told, don't know if it is true but that can change brain chemistry forever ?

 

[Mr Blonde]

Do you have a medical background or is Google your main friend ?

A bit of both, though you can add text books alongside Google... and I'm working on making the medical background part a career.

I hope so, as i have suffered depression to every degree since I was 18yo when I had glandular fever and shingles both at the same time. And I have been told, don't know if it is true but that can change brain chemistry forever ?

What other medications have you tried? And what's the new one?

Glandular fever and shingles can both have neurological effects, though they are usually uncommon. If the glandular fever and shingles were serious enough to cause CNS symptoms, or encephalitis or another serious symptom, then that could leave permanent damage.

 

[Why_not ?]

It's called Pristiq 50mg, though can/will be increased later to 100mg. The shingles where mostly around my trunk fortunately, otherwise they can blind you ?

 

[Why_not ?]

Double post sorry.

Hey, had a very interesting experience the other night. I'm still not sure exactly what happened but it was out of control, or at least I was. I procured some Phentermine 37.5mg, white pill with blue bits through it. There were supposed to be 90 in the bottle, I didn’t count them so can’t be absolutely sure there was but looked like alot. Anyway I had been doing 3 or 4 per day for about 5 days, good buzz and got lots of work done. However I managed to scum 3 days off in a row, which is almost unheard of for me at this time of the year. So I(and my wife) just cut loose and went ape shit with them(ex Meth addict here), I do not know how many I took (30+ ?) but I was speeding off my head for 24hrs straight. My wife didn’t have anywhere near as many as me and said(well almost demanded) that I get some sleep. I was not tired at all !! Not even close but I took her advice/caved and took 40mg Valium, which did did basically nothing, so on top of that I took 2 x 10mg Stilnox.

As I have stated I have never really been able to trip properly, but if tripping properly is anything like that I have to be ready for it, and will be I think (I really wasn’t expecting this so didn’t associate it with a drug related experience). I really wasn’t expecting what followed. I can’t say too much but I have a dodgy Foxtel set up and swore blind the phone rang and that a Rep from Foxtel told me they would be here before 12pm to inspect our Foxtel set up. The wife was asleep, but was woken up by me frantically running around trying to set it up legally, which wasn’t really possible. She said she didn’t hear the phone ring and doubted they would be coming as it was Xmas day (10:30ish). I was so convinced it was real that I argued they were coming and we were busted. On top of this my wife became many different people I know and i was talking to her as if she was that person until I turned to look at “them” and saw it was her. I saw many things out of the corner of my eye, but nothing directly in front of me I thought I could touch, which was a shame looking back on it. What you guys think ?

 

[Busty St Clare]

That would most likely be the stilnox my friend. It is well known to cause some vivid hallucinations (people sleep driving or diving out of windows for instance). Sleep deprivation thrown on top would not have helped.

The problem is when you truly believe something is "real" it is impossible to talk your self out of it. Even the mighty have been over powered by a bad trip. There is often no rhyme nor reason to it. It is not something you can physically breakdown like some sort psychedelic wall. Much the same way you can't tell someone who is depressed just to "be happy".

I have read through this thread with interest and it doesn't seem to matter what experienced people have said, you still seem to think it is just a matter of reminding your self that it is just a trip. Your mind doesn't work like that. Some people aren't born to trip but even the mighty can fall. Always remember to ensure your mind set is good (don't trip when you are sad/upset/stressed) and you choose to trip in a safe and comfortable place.

 

[poledriver]

Double post sorry.

Hey, had a very interesting experience the other night. I'm still not sure exactly what happened but it was out of control, or at least I was. I procured some Phentermine 37.5mg, white pill with blue bits through it. There were supposed to be 90 in the bottle, I didn’t count them so can’t be absolutely sure there was but looked like alot. Anyway I had been doing 3 or 4 per day for about 5 days, good buzz and got lots of work done. However I managed to scum 3 days off in a row, which is almost unheard of for me at this time of the year. So I(and my wife) just cut loose and went ape shit with them(ex Meth addict here), I do not know how many I took (30+ ?) but I was speeding off my head for 24hrs straight. My wife didn’t have anywhere near as many as me and said(well almost demanded) that I get some sleep. I was not tired at all !! Not even close but I took her advice/caved and took 40mg Valium, which did did basically nothing, so on top of that I took 2 x 10mg Stilnox.

As I have stated I have never really been able to trip properly, but if tripping properly is anything like that I have to be ready for it, and will be I think (I really wasn’t expecting this so didn’t associate it with a drug related experience). I really wasn’t expecting what followed. I can’t say too much but I have a dodgy Foxtel set up and swore blind the phone rang and that a Rep from Foxtel told me they would be here before 12pm to inspect our Foxtel set up. The wife was asleep, but was woken up by me frantically running around trying to set it up legally, which wasn’t really possible. She said she didn’t hear the phone ring and doubted they would be coming as it was Xmas day (10:30ish). I was so convinced it was real that I argued they were coming and we were busted. On top of this my wife became many different people I know and i was talking to her as if she was that person until I turned to look at “them” and saw it was her. I saw many things out of the corner of my eye, but nothing directly in front of me I thought I could touch, which was a shame looking back on it. What you guys think ?

I think Busty nailed it. Those Stilnox have been in the media a fait bit, try google it, regarding people having weird things happen to them when they were 'asleep'.
Quite a few people have died because they have slept walked out the window or off the balcony, it's pretty scary, i'd never take it personally.

The other thing would be the 30 + of the Phentermine 37.5mg. I'm not sure without research what they are, but if you said they made you speed off ur nut then i guess they are pretty dangerous too.

Sounds like you went on a bit of a bender, but it's good to know you are ok, and in some ways sounds like a fun trip, albeit a bit dangerous one.

 

[Why_not ?]

That would most likely be the stilnox my friend. It is well known to cause some vivid hallucinations (people sleep driving or diving out of windows for instance). Sleep deprivation thrown on top would not have helped.

Yeah I was wondering about the Stilnox, have heard about what you stated above. Plus the fact when I thought someone else was sitting next to me and I was talking to "that" person, then when I turned to look at them, as you do, I straight away saw/realised it was my wife and apologised.


[/QUOTE]I have read through this thread with interest and it doesn't seem to matter what experienced people have said, you still seem to think it is just a matter of reminding your self that it is just a trip. Your mind doesn't work like that. Some people aren't born to trip but even the mighty can fall. Always remember to ensure your mind set is good (don't trip when you are sad/upset/stressed) and you choose to trip in a safe and comfortable place. [/QUOTE]

Please I don't want anyone thinking I am disrespecting them in any way, shape, or form. This is by far the best, most helpful, and friendliest Forum I have ever had the pleasure of being a part of. I am listening and taking onboard what everyone here has said. And yeah I know the whole be in a good mood and comfy place is a must, but glad you put it in there in case I didn't. It's just I remember once, when I was just out of High School, 2 friends and I went camping and dropped a Strawberry. We heard noises in the bush, to us it sounded like something (a monster, lol) was ripping trees out of the ground and was actually . It must have been maybe like a group paranoia thing, and at the time we were so seriously scared that we all stood back to back (actually touching) with the biggest stick/log we could find, waiting for it to emerge from the bush to fight for our lives. But it was me who realised it was just the trip, threw my stick down and said this is bullshit what the fuck are we doing, grabbed a torch and walked into the bush to discover it was just a possum !! Jumping from tree to tree, LO-fucken-L. This is the reason I have been saying I “think” I would be able to snap myself out of a bad trip, though I’m not saying I would put any significant amount of money on it.

@poledriver, yeah I have been warned many times about Stilnox but it seems to be the only thing that will put me down and has a short half life so I don’t end up a zombie after a week or 2. Have tried Temaz, did jack for me. Phentermine is, to my knowledge anyway, the medical equivalent of Amphetamine.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Phentermine is, to my knowledge anyway, the medical equivalent of Amphetamine.

Not really, apart from the fact that amphetamine is already used in medicine. Phentermine is considered part of the amphetamine class, but it releases norepinephrine (similar to adrenaline) at a much higher level then it releases dopamine and serotonin.

Sounds like too much stimulant plus the stilnox put you in a weird state... almost sounds similar to some diphenhydramine experiences I've heard.

 

[ColtDan]

I'm not so sure any amount of previous tripping or research could prepare one for a breakthrough DMT experience. It shatters everything you've ever known... 5 years later and I still struggle to integrate what happened that night. Haven't touched it since. No regrets however. I can handle some really intense times on psychedelics and combos etc, the trips still blow my mind, but DMT was just a whole other level.

I would only consider it 'fun' and 'recreational' at low-medium doses, but at high to breakthrough doses I see it more as an extremely profound, almost religious experience and the closest feeling I've had of a sense of "god". I'm not religious at all, but god has nothing to do with religion

spot on brother. very well described,

 

[Sameria]

^Couldn't have said it better myself. Even after consuming ~1000ug doses of LSD and plenty of reading and mental preperation my first breakthrough rocked my shit to the core.

The thing that surprised me most was how quickly it took effect. For a few minutes it was very awkward and strange but then the euphoria kicked in and it was fantastic. I agree with puckboy's views on DMT and religion. I'm by no means religious in any degree whatsoever - yet I clearly remember a profound experience of having a beautiful sounding "Sentient" womens voice sooth me just as I lost consciousness and woke up It certainly makes you understand how religion came to be.

 

[ColtDan]

lots of people seem to get the female vibe from DMT. in my trips a female being looked after me, watched me, all the DMT trips ive had have had the same female presence, shes sexy. pure love. when i come back i feel inlove with everything, its fucking incredible. i swear the first time i did DMT she "fucked me" in some weird way. i can never put into words the beauty of the experiences ive had. that stuff has done things to reality that i never thought was possible

 

[Why_not ?]

Any females here tried it and get a guys voice ? Just curious. Sounds like I might have to re-think giving this gear a go.