Harm Reduction Solubility of Tramadol in water for Intranasal Admin..

[Treefa]

Hey Bl, hate making new threads for stupid questions like this, but does anybody have an idea how water soluble tramadol is??

All I could come up with UTFSE is that it's "freely soluble" or "dissolves readily in water" but i'm looking more for a ballpark ratio of how much tram exactly can be dissolved in say, 5ml of H2O?

I have come into a supply of tramadol after running out of OM and Bupe, and it takes the edge off in high doses but it's quite lacking in the motivation/energy/etc.. so I was planning on concocting a nasal spray, after reading on the nasal absorption of tramadol, it is something I would like to try to see if it has any potential as a sort of "breakthrough" medication, although i'm concerned wether or not the O-DMT will still be produced in the liver?? But I digress, scholarly articles I've been reading indicate potential promising results from a tramadol Nasal solution..

I have a nasal spray bottle that lists all the specs I need to calculate an exact doseage per spray, 200 sprays to 30 milliters...

I'm thinking of using 10ml of water to dissolve/extract 1/4 gram (250mg) of tramadol from AN 627 tabs....that would leave me with appx. 67 sprays, delivering approximately 3.73174 mg of tramadol HCL per spray..

So will 1/4 gram of tramadol dissolve in 10ml of water??

And any other advice on concocting homemade nasal sprays as a delivery system for intranasal use of water soluble drugs??? I doubt the solution will even last long enough to need any kind of preservatives, I may even end up drinking it if it doesn't produce any desired effects..

Here is my plan though;
1.)sterilize water by boiling for 10 mins...adding pinch of salt to ease discomfort on nose
2.) Crush tramadol tablets into powder while water cools to room temp..
3.) Basically perform CWE (no Tylenol I know, but IME fillers are pure HELL on nose, whether in nasal solution or not), resulting in concentrated Tramadol HCL solution..
4.) Add solution to nasal spray bottle, prime and test...

So what does BL think about my pipe dream?? I'm attending a NFL football game sunday%) and I will need all the pain relief I can get, Lord knows I can't afford their beers There!! Not to mention the goddamn uncomfortable folding seats, lol..8(

Thanks in advance for any advice, mods feel free to move this as IDK where exactly it belongs...

 

[ErgicMergic]

I think snorting tram would cause unbelievable pain to the nasal membranes... I only recommend taking it orally.

Plus, I was always of the understanding that any ROA that bypasses first-pass metabolism would be a waste of tramadol if you are taking it for its opioid effects (O-Desmethyltramadol [M1]), but I read here on BL that it still reaches the liver through enterohepatic circulation eventually. However, I can't see it being as effective of an ROA of tramadol as taking it orally because tram->M1 metabolism is taken care of by the CYP2D6 liver enzyme. So, to keep those CYP2D6 enzyme alleles metabolizing tram to M1, you need to introduce the tramadol in staggered doses, or else the 2D6 alleles become saturated and tram is wasted.

For optimum opiate effects, since you are taking 250mg (a relatively strong dose when you stagger it/take it in XR form):
1. Take a 50mg tablet orally.
2. Take a 25mg half tablet 15 minutes later (t+15min)
3. 25mg (t+30min)
4. 25mg (t+45min)
5. Repeat every 15 minutes until the full dose is taken (250mg in this case)

It takes about 2-3 hours for the opioid effects from O-Desmethyltramadol to really kick in, so to others reading this, be patient and before redosing keep this in mind when you're wondering when the narcotic effect will kick in.

Staggering your dose is a great idea, since it not only produces more O-Desmethyltramadol (reason for main opioid effects from tram), it also cuts down on stimulant side effects from the tramadol parent drug, and most importantly, it cuts down on the risk of seizures considerably rather than just taking a bolus dose. Also, if there is already tramadol in your system due to staggering your dose, the bioavailability of a small redose goes up. Be safe, tramadol seizures are no joke, and I would never recommend taking more than 250mg in a staggered dose, or more than 100-150mg in a single dose: the risk of seizure is just too high.

 

[Sprout]

Nasal Tram was always a waste to me, and painful, too!
Staggered oral dosing is the way to go - it served me so very well, especially when mixed with Codeine!
Wish I could still get high off either tbh, 400mg staggered Tram + 500mg Codeine 1.5 hours after the last Tramadol was heavenly - better than M, OC, PT, DHC etc.

 

[snak]

Don't do it, man. Just take them orally like you have been.

Trying to snort it is just waiting your time AND your drugs.

& damn, dude...you need to slow your roll on the high doses though. Because as Ergic mentioned, the higher the dose, the higher the chances of having a seizure.

Taking those amounts of tram seriously lowers the seizure thresh hold, which could easily happen to you.

Be careful, man...happy dosing!

 

[Treefa]

Well 250mg is actually pretty light dose for me, i usuallu eat from 400-650mg for some decent pain relief and a subtle so-so buzz more of the stomulant type.

Howerver the staggering theory is quite interesting, seeing as i usually take 4 tablets, then 4 more about 15 minutes later, then 2 more pretty soon if needed and i notice minimal opiate effects (tho my tolerance is quite stout) so i will try seperating the dose more like 100mg every 15-30 mins and hope that yields better analgesia..

I know its bad taking these kinda doses but thats just how it is till i get my rx filled or find some decent pains...i keep plenty of benzos(arivan and xanax) on hand in case i feel i may have a seizure, tho ive been taking 1/2 gram a day for years ofd and on and never had a seizure, thank God , knock on wood lol

I will probably take the advice and hold off on the nose spray idea untill i find some more oxymorphone or bupe...i did it with opana with amazing results, too bad i dont havr any for the ball game haha that would be nice

 

[Treefa]

Or do i need to stagger more like 50mg/15 mins untill i reach my desired dose?
Will waiting longer btwn doses help increase mu-receptor agonism?

When i was 16 i could get a helluva opiate buzz off trams, i just had to go and fuck up my tolerance lol

 

[ErgicMergic]

Or do i need to stagger more like 50mg/15 mins untill i reach my desired dose?
Will waiting longer btwn doses help increase mu-receptor agonism?

When i was 16 i could get a helluva opiate buzz off trams, i just had to go and fuck up my tolerance lol

Staggering it into smaller doses helps a lot with converting it into the main opioid metabolite, so taking an "attack dose" of 50-75mg would work, but take no more than 25mg every 15 mins after that. It really does help to make the narcotic effect stronger.

 

[Treefa]

Gee thanks guys!

I tried this morning, taking about 100mg, waiting 15mins popped one more 50mg, got up and showered then popped 2X50mg, watited 20 minutes and popped 2X50mg more, followed by one some time later.
I must say, I feel quite a bit better than I did yesterday, and most all the other times I took it basically as much as I could tolerate without puking them up, usually just swallow 250mg, wait 30 minutes and pop another 3-5 tablets, and the effects I were getting was pure bullshit, I chalked it up to my ever-increasing real opiate tolerance.
I've been on an oxymorphone/buprenorphine binge the past week!!
My nose really needed the break though, it was in bad bad shape, lol!

But I digress, this staggering is the way to go, I've only taken 8 today and I don't even feel like popping more!! I mean, I did plan to skip today altogether for a nice little receptor washout, but come on I gotta be realistic here LOL!

This is a huge breakthrough for me now lol, sorry for ranting, but hey, ya'll turned me on to a much more effacious (and probably safer) way to take my tramadol to maximize the good effects and 1/2 the bad ones...thanks a lot ya'll, this will really help me enjoy the game tm, less pain=more fun!