Benzos Social Anxiety Disorder

[Mycophile]

I'm using doses that are like 250mg and I space it out only when I really need it.

I think when it's in powder form and not prescribed it's easier to over do. I try to follow the russian prescription guidelines..

At worse I get a hangover and a panic attack If I overuse it. Full Gaba withdrawal scares me a lot more. I've read you need a lot of phenibut before risk of seizures during withdrawal.

Ok, i use doses from 2,000--4,000mgs of Phenibut one day a week but it's powder.

I don't know anything about the Russian prescription guidelines which is quite interesting.

What are they exactly??

As far as full GABA withdrawal, I don't find myself in danger of getting it from my current Klonopin usage.

I actually took it for years without ever experiencing it but I am something of an enigma in that sense and I never understood how I avoided it but now I try to use it on a MUCH less frequent basis...as little as possible, but still, I find I can take it a few days a week than abstain a few and the worst I ever get is a little rebound anxiety which I'm usually able to ignore or take a dose as low as 0.5mgs to get rid of if absolutely necessary.

I no longer feel I need to think hard about it, I just try to use it sparingly.

 

[Moreaux]

I wish people wouldn't talk about this like it's a set in stone FACT.

I have been prescribed Klonopin for 12 years now and have never needed to raise my dosage beyond 1.5mgs a day and it still works really well for me and I VERY much doubt it will ever go up if it hasn't in this amount of time.

I used to use it daily which I wouldn't recommend to anyone, but now I use it only 3-4 days a week and still see benefits and don't have trouble sticking to the same dosage.

I also haven't experienced negative cognitive effects and we should all keep in mind that only SOME people will experience them.

I agree that other solutions should be sought first BUT...some people just need benzos and they CAN be used responsibly under certain conditions without EVER needing to raise your dosage beyond a certain point if my case is to be considered legit, which I can't see why it shouldn't be.

I think there's a very real "war on benzos" going on these days and it's not just in the doctor's office, but also exists on this forum as well with people propagating the often false idea that if one uses benzos for anything other than the short term they WILL DEFINITELY have problems eventually.

I can see those who have had issues feeling strongly about this, but whenever you say this or that **WILL** happen you'd better be willing to consider the cases of those who never experience those negative effects.

Not that I've never seen that Klonopin can't be overused as it can certainly leave the user groggy or tired, but some people are able to use for long periods of time without a raise in dosage or serious negative effects and in those cases they can sometimes do more good than harm despite all the warnings.

I was replying to a post referencing daily use, your not using them daily. Not the same situation. Regarding the cognitive effects of long term use, it's real and it happens in many cases - science has validated that effect so research it on your own, I am not going argue that point. Science has also substantiated that tolerance grows quickly to them, so I'm not going to address that in detail. Regarding your perception that benzos are villainized, well too many unsuspecting people have had serious if not fatal consequences from taking them. Doctors hand them out like candy and keep patients on them long term, without educating the patient properly, and the results to the patient can be devastating. Again, my post applies to daily use, not occasional users such as yourself. The OP has not yet taken benzos and is inquiring about them. It is perfectly appropriate to inform them of the dangers. The post I responded to that you quoted, was addressing a user that posted potentially misleading information. Most daily benzo users will build a tolerance and will have to eventually increase their dose for the benzo to remain effective, regardless of how "responsible" they are.

Of course, I used to sound like you when I took Xanax as scripted for ten years. I thought Xanax was a great life saver that kept me level. It wasn't until I had any length of time off of them to see the memory issues, and the other cognitive effects. I also noticed that during taking Xanax my anxiety was at an all time high level. It had increased hundred-fold from the time I was scripted Xanax to the end of my time on Xanax. Ironically, after being off Xanax my anxiety is back down to the original levels of how it was prior to Xanax.

OP - do your research on any meds that the doctor suggests you take for your social anxiety. Research other forums and look look at scientific data. Make an educated decision that you think you will benefit most from.

*Edited to correct typos.

 

[speedballs_over]

I wish people wouldn't talk about this like it's a set in stone FACT.

I have been prescribed Klonopin for 12 years now and have never needed to raise my dosage beyond 1.5mgs a day and it still works really well for me and I VERY much doubt it will ever go up if it hasn't in this amount of time.

I used to use it daily which I wouldn't recommend to anyone, but now I use it only 3-4 days a week and still see benefits and don't have trouble sticking to the same dosage.

I also haven't experienced negative cognitive effects and we should all keep in mind that only SOME people will experience them.

I agree that other solutions should be sought first BUT...some people just need benzos and they CAN be used responsibly under certain conditions without EVER needing to raise your dosage beyond a certain point if my case is to be considered legit, which I can't see why it shouldn't be.

I think there's a very real "war on benzos" going on these days and it's not just in the doctor's office, but also exists on this forum as well with people propagating the often false idea that if one uses benzos for anything other than the short term they WILL DEFINITELY have problems eventually.

I can see those who have had issues feeling strongly about this, but whenever you say this or that **WILL** happen you'd better be willing to consider the cases of those who never experience those negative effects.

Not that I've never seen that Klonopin can't be overused as it can certainly leave the user groggy or tired, but some people are able to use for long periods of time without a raise in dosage or serious negative effects and in those cases they can sometimes do more good than harm despite all the warnings.

This ^^ after eight years at 4-mg/ day Klonopin my anxiety is as low as ever. Currently on Valium. Ashton Taper. I'm as bright as I've ever been. And Klonopin definitely still would help immensely. My baseline anxiety is much lower due to seven years intensive CBT therapy, combined with Klonopin - but I had GAD / panic as intense and treatment resistant as any of my docs and therapists have ever treated. They've told me this many times.

It's NOT true it always backfires. Klonopin is the one benzo that I read this same opinion about over and over, so maybe Klonopin is unique?

Benzos are an insidious class of drug and all the other negatives in this thread cannot be overstated, imo. I simply take exception to any claim that they always become less effective. I actually voluntarily lowered my dose to 2-mg. I went back to 3, and am now tapering off after a decade of use and some abuse (first two years were Xanax I bought in Mexico - fuck you LE- statue of limitations fuckers!)

OP please reconsider as someone above said, "in a sober manner" long and thoroughly, and with quality research of your own. Educate yourself outside this forum. NIH and SAMHSA, if you're American, are great resources for factual information. Check out benzobuddies.? (.com or .org), you can read real life experiences. Read through the recovery section. That'll put you off this idea of benzos.

Seratogenic drugs I tried first. Tried to kill myself within six months (age at time 31). So, work closely with you doc and be honest.

We have you started, you take it from here. Consider getting into CBT! It works so much better than any drug long term, ime. There's a subset of CBT my therapist refers to as ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy) he says that's actually what we practice. That was news to me, anyway it's CBT and it's derivatives that work wonders if you put in effort. It's not easy, it's not always fun, it's relief for real and permanent if you keep at it. The ACA now requires mental health parity, your insurance may help pay for CBT. Mine pays 50% b/c I'm out of network, that's b/c I have an amazing therapist but he doesn't deal with insurance. Other CBT providers do.

I wish you well, I definitely know how you feel. I'm very empathetic, I just don't come across that way in HR forums.

 

[Mycophile]

I was replying to a post referencing daily use, your not using them daily. Not the same situation. Regarding the cognitive effects of long term use, it's real and it happens in many cases - science has validated that effect so research it on your own, I am not going argue that point. Science has also substantiated that tolerance grows quickly to them, so I'm not going to address that in detail. Regarding your perception that benzos are villainized, well too many unsuspecting people have had serious if not fatal consequences from taking them. Doctors hand them out like candy and keep patients on them long term, without educating the patient properly, and the results to the patient can be devastating. Again, my post applies to daily use, not occasional users such as yourself. The OP has not yet taken benzos and is inquiring about them. It is perfectly appropriate to inform them of the dangers. The post I responded to that you quoted, was addressing a user that posted potentially misleading information. Most daily benzo users will build a tolerance and will have to eventually increase their dose for the benzo to remain effective, regardless of how "responsible" they are.

Of course, I used to sound like you when I took Xanax as scripted for ten years. I thought Canax was a great life saver that kept me level. It was until I had any length of time off of them to see the memory issues, and the other cognitive effects. I also noticed that during taking Xanax my anxiety was at an all time high level. It had increased hundred-fold from the time I was scripted Xanax to the end of my time on Xanax. Ironically, after being off Xanax my anxiety is back down to the original levels of how it was prior to Xanax.

OP - do your research on any meds that the doctor suggests you take for your social anxiety. Research other forums and look look at scientific data. Make an educated decision that you think you will benefit most from.

I actually was on them daily for 11 years which I shouldn't have been but got off and now just use them a few times a week and it's been 12 years now since I first used it, so I have a LOT of experience here.

May I ask how much longer than that you took them??

Just curious.

Also, Xanax is MUCH more habit forming and prone to side effects in comparison to Klonopin.

I am kind of afraid that suddenly someday I could have those problems, but if after 12 years they haven't occurred I am doubting that they ever will, though I know they could.

I never said the cognitive effects aren't real, but like you said, they are true "in many cases" not ALL cases, and the rise in tolerance is true in "many" cases, not ALL cases, and this is important to emphasize.

Also, honestly, I'm not sure doctors "hand them out like candy" anymore.

All too often I've seen the opposite, doctors REFUSING to give them to people who need them because of the sort of fear mongering which says "you can't escape horrible side effects if you use them for any length of time" which is not necessarily true.

We all know that tolerance CAN build, and that negative effects CAN happen, but what I"m saying is that after over a decade of use my tolerance never rose and I haven't gotten cognitive side effects so that goes to show that that doesn't NECESSARILY happen.

I agree they should be a last resort, but I don't like trying to scare people away from using something that has helped me so much with having given me such few side effects and I feel that these kinds of warnings can backfire when they reinforce the already rigid opinions of doctors who won't prescribe them even to people who need them.

 

[stillkickin]

Due to my experience with benzos (namely xanax mostly, but also valium/klonopin/ativan) I could not ever recommend them to anyone for any length of time past 1-2 weeks. I wasn't aware of the long term effects it has on the brain and was taking them primarily as a sleep aid and also in anxiety situations.

After almost 7 years of being on them I was no doubt so much worse off anxiety wise even while I was taking up to 2mg of xanax/day. The rebound anxiety and inter-dose anxiety was unreal. Then the detox off them was probably the worst experience I ever had with medications. It went on for around 7 months of severe panic, completely fried thoughts, insomnia, brain zaps, derealization and depersonalization, the list goes on and on. I couldn't drink even a single beer until I was off them for 6 months as it would throw me right back into withdrawals.

I was never informed by my doctor that this could become an issue and had to learn all of this the hardest way possible. Every single person I've ever met that have been on benzos for any length of time has had issues similar to mine. There's a whole support forum dedicated to this very cause. Benzobuddies.org . I just felt inclined to share this as the road on benzos is a rough one that should be avoided at all costs for daily use as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SKR]

Nothing more depraved than watching a man in the depths of an ether (or xanax) binge - H.S.Thompson

Except with Xanax you aren't nearly or even aware of your screwball behaviour - I hate having to hear the same story/sentence or question over and over and over - Xanax - the drug that ensures you have no fucking memory.

 

[doctorcodone]

Before you try and benzo try a combo with lyrica and Inderal. That combo has worked termendously.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I don't think that Lyrica is approved for treatment of anxiety yet in the United States.

Could be wrong, though.

 

[doctorcodone]

It hasn't been aproved by the FDA for anxiety but is still persribed off brand for anxiety, if your doctor won't give you lyrica he will likely settle for gabapnetin which is still an effective treatment for SOCAIL anxiety. I personally do not think it's very good for panic attacks but it will wipe away your socail anxiety.

 

[SKR]

^Doctors throw that stuff at me without batting an eyelid "how much do you want?"....countless repeats.

 

[Moreaux]

I actually was on them daily for 11 years which I shouldn't have been but got off and now just use them a few times a week and it's been 12 years now since I first used it, so I have a LOT of experience here.

May I ask how much longer than that you took them??[\B]

Just curious.

Also, Xanax is MUCH more habit forming and prone to side effects in comparison to Klonopin.

I am kind of afraid that suddenly someday I could have those problems, but if after 12 years they haven't occurred I am doubting that they ever will, though I know they could.

I never said the cognitive effects aren't real, but like you said, they are true "in many cases" not ALL cases, and the rise in tolerance is true in "many" cases, not ALL cases, and this is important to emphasize.

Also, honestly, I'm not sure doctors "hand them out like candy" anymore.

All too often I've seen the opposite, doctors REFUSING to give them to people who need them because of the sort of fear mongering which says "you can't escape horrible side effects if you use them for any length of time" which is not necessarily true.

We all know that tolerance CAN build, and that negative effects CAN happen, but what I"m saying is that after over a decade of use my tolerance never rose and I haven't gotten cognitive side effects so that goes to show that that doesn't NECESSARILY happen.

I agree they should be a last resort, but I don't like trying to scare people away from using something that has helped me so much with having given me such few side effects and I feel that these kinds of warnings can backfire when they reinforce the already rigid opinions of doctors who won't prescribe them even to people who need them.

I took Xanax daily for 10 years. During that time my GP would sometimes prescribe me Valium and klonopin during rough times, in addition to the Xanax. I found the klonopin did little for me, and I usually only used it if I ran out of Xanax. The Xanax was scripted for me to take twice daily, and as needed. It didn't specify a maximum dose per day, and me being ignorant about benzos at the time thought they were harmless, and sometimes would take several throughout a bad day. At the time I had no idea they were addictive or that you could get high from them [never experienced anything close to a high]. When I would run out of Xanax the klonopin barely touched the anxiety, and didn't make me tired like Xanax or Valium. I only used Valium for plane rides, so it was not something I took frequently.

I would be interested to know why klonopin seems more benign than Xanax, according to the user accounts I've read in this thread and others. The only difference between the two that I am aware of is that klonopin has a much longer half life than Xanax. I may look into that later. If I find anything I post.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Have you tried therapy at all? Or have you ever taken an SSRI? Most medical professionals are reluctant to give benzos, if you have not tried anything else as benzos can be highly addictive. Good luck.

 

[Mycophile]

I took Xanax daily for 10 years. During that time my GP would sometimes prescribe me Valium and klonopin during rough times, in addition to the Xanax. I found the klonopin did little for me, and I usually only used it if I ran out of Xanax. The Xanax was scripted for me to take twice daily, and as needed. It didn't specify a maximum dose per day, and me being ignorant about benzos at the time thought they were harmless, and sometimes would take several throughout a bad day. At the time I had no idea they were addictive or that you could get high from them [never experienced anything close to a high]. When I would run out of Xanax the klonopin barely touched the anxiety, and didn't make me tired like Xanax or Valium. I only used Valium for plane rides, so it was not something I took frequently.

I would be interested to know why klonopin seems more benign than Xanax, according to the user accounts I've read in this thread and others. The only difference between the two that I am aware of is that klonopin has a much longer half life than Xanax. I may look into that later. If I find anything I post.

I don't think Klonopin is more "benign" i think it leads to less redosing because of the long half life and hence, often less abuse, though not always.

Xanax's is about 6 hours if I am not mistaken and Klonopin's is about 12, so if one has addiction problems with benzos then they are probably going to be worse with Xanax if not physically at least mentally with always thinking about that next dose.

With Klonopin, if I need it I take it once a day and forget about it.

But people of course develop issues with Klonopin also.

I am not doubting your experience, it's just different from my own.

Some people really benefit from benzos but I agree they should be used very sparingly as their are obvious side effects like with all drugs.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I don't really think that benzodiazepines are particularly addictive, unless you're already a polydrug addict (which most people who are prescribed benzodiazepines are not). I think most of the research on the addictiveness of benzodiazepines, and alprazolam in particular, bears this out. I was prescribed Xanax before I entered into the world of street drugs and didn't have any problem discontinuing my use of the drug. They are a useful class of drug, though, and that's why I'm glad that they're still schedule IV and not more restricted.

 

[doctorcodone]

I would have to agree that benzodiazepines aren't as addictive as they are out to be made, But someone with anxiety is much more likely to get attached to the anxiety relief. I have social anxiety and benzos did help but I find that they make me to drowsy and blur my mind. Everyone is different and I think it's always best to try other alternatives before using benzos because he may be one of those people that abosoulty loves benzos.

 

[Hodor]

I would be interested to know why klonopin seems more benign than Xanax, according to the user accounts I've read in this thread and others. The only difference between the two that I am aware of is that klonopin has a much longer half life than Xanax. I may look into that later. If I find anything I post.

I'd say Klonopin is quicker to create a physiological addiction (since you're basically on it 24/7) while Xanax addiction is, at least at first, primarily psychological (a cycle of "rushes" and rebounds), then becomes just as physiological as with Klonopin once you're redosing to the point that you're under the influence 24/7.

It's like the difference between, I dunno... Fentanyl and Methadone?

 

[belfort]

Ssris did nothing for my social anxiety..phenibut has helped my social anxiety much more than any Ssri...exercise helps a little as well..benzos work great but do dull my mind..I also don't think benzos are that addictive, at least not for me they aren't..I've had tons of etizolam around and klonopin and got hooked

 

[Moreaux]

Ssris did nothing for my social anxiety..phenibut has helped my social anxiety much more than any Ssri...exercise helps a little as well..benzos work great but do dull my mind..I also don't think benzos are that addictive, at least not for me they aren't..I've had tons of etizolam around and klonopin and got hooked

Just curious, been very interested in phenibut but had a hell of a time getting off Xanax, how addictive and tolerance building is it? Does it still help social anxiety at low doses?

 

[Mycophile]

Just curious, been very interested in phenibut but had a hell of a time getting off Xanax, how addictive and tolerance building is it? Does it still help social anxiety at low doses?

Phenibut is SUPER addictive.

There have been a lot of horror stories on here of people getting addicted from just using it 3 days in a row or something like that and having HORRIBLE withdrawal including auditory hallucinations, SERIOUS insomnia, and generally feeling like you are going insane.

You build tolerance like CRAZY taking it and will need higher doses really soon if you take too much.

But it definitely helps with social anxiety a lot, in some ways maybe more than Klonopin even in the sense that it gets me high which Klonopin doesn't.

I am on it right now actually lol...feeling quite nice.

I only take it once a week and NEVER more than that.

If you stick to no more than once a week and keep it under 4,000 mgs like they say though you can feel nice from it and avoid problems.

 

[doctorcodone]

I've read before that gabapentin and phenibut have some simular actions, anyone have more information on this? I think they both effect calcium channels. I know that gabapentin effects alpha2delta but don't know about phenibut.