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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
So what all can be done with pure Asarone?
- Thread starter yaesutom
- Start date
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Besides the known use of calamus by the cree (I think?), Calamus tea is actually somewhat popular in Egypt for its revitalising effects. I have never had it but am interested, not because I'm expecting anything spectacular, but to add to the list of NMDA antagonists because I am looking for something particular...
(I only found one ref on pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12052443&query_hl=4)
I believe asarone is also an anti-tussive.
Hoever, I do think the best thing you can do with Asarone is TMA2, which, in my experience, is one of the most versatile psychedelics. Amazing stuff, and I am glad it is not too popular and hasn't caught the media's eye.I asked this because looks like i'll possibly be able to get plenty of synthetic asarone soon, i'll probably get a gram and see if any effects are noticed.
Interesting, have you tried TMA-6? I am getting some TMA-6 soon to explore sometime,
Kinda off topic but the 2,4,6 pattern interests me, I mean, MGS and others on here have researched this more than I have, but if 2,6-dimethoxy-PEA/amphetamine can be made as easy as 2c-h/2,5-DMA, can it be simply brominated (heh, i'd rather try the iodo or chloro versions first though hehe) just like 2,5-DMPEA/DMA?
Because if its just (or at least almost?) as easy to make the 2,4,6 versions of all the 2c's/DOx's/etc, there's probably plenty of gems/winners in there that just haven't been discovered yet. It would be nice to see people making/playing around with some of these unknowns instead of always going for the "known" Pihkal's, cause there's probably (lol, well there's GOTTA BE!) some really bad-ass PEA's that are just as easy / quick to make as the 2c's etc that have commercially available precursors like all the 2c's, would be nice if people tasted and found a few real nice ones
.
Anyway i'm curious enough to go ahead and grab a gram of asarone or so just to play around with since its not expensive.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Keep in mind that Asaron is already 2,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl-something (forgot what). That is why the only option (of interest to you and I) is TMA-2, unless you can somehow alter the 4-MeO group.
As far as I know, all of the essential oilsthat can be turned into amphetamines have something in the 4-position (usualy a hydroxyl or a methoxy group - or a part of a methylenedioxy bridge (or whatever you call that)).
As for TMA-6, from what I read, apparently it is indistinguishable from TMA-2 besides having a longer duration. I personally have not tried it, but I do find TMA-2 to be almost indistinguishable from 2C-D (even in potency), besides of course the duration. It seems in this case that moving the 4-methoxy group to the 5-position simply lengthens the half-life.
Following this logic, what is puzzling though, is that 2,6-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine (psi-DOM) is shorter acting than DOM! (although it is quite active as reported in PiHKAL). Speaking of which, I believe Shulgin talks about discrepancies between 2,4,6- and 2,4,5-substituted phens in the psi-DOM entry.
I am aware, though, that TMA-2/6 have a 4-Methoxy and 2C-D/DOM have a 4-methyl group, but I am simply saying that my own experience proved that 2C-D and TMA2 are almost identical in effect. I am very interested in DOM, not only for its repuatation, but to see how it relates to those two, since they are my favourite phenethylamines.
I would also be very interested in knowing how 2,6-dimethoxy-4-methylphenethylamine (psi-2C-D?) would behave.Last edited:^^
Interesting, often (including me!) people say things like 2C-D last way too short for the dose you take, and then things like DOC that kick ass tend to last on the long side... (heh i'd take it more often if it was way shorter, i've said before "i wish there was a shorter version of DOC).
So I guess if any of these were to show up on the RC market, they would want to invest in research chems *known* to have activity, and nice activity.. So if the 2,6 versions of the needed precursors were commercially available well, that would be sweet and i'd be telling people, d00d, like, why not be like the Shulgin's and test out some of the psi-whatever series??
Cagliostro
Bluelighter
Don't forget that asarone has been shown to be carcinogenic. I think it's liver cancer it causes.I wonder what about some other 2,6-DMA's, psi-DOM or an ethyl, etc, whatever, are they incredibly difficult to make? - compared to the 2,5 versions?
I just wonder because there's some possible "gems" there probably, if only someone were to make some up / taste them, if they are known to be really nice then the RC companies would be more likely to make some available.
TMA-6 is available, for cheap too, - definitely can't wait to taste this one if its anything like 2C-D with a longer duration.. Jamshyd did you find it more simulating or any side effects compared to 2C-D?
I'll be sure to post up a report once I do get to taste it.psi-compounds
The psi-DOB is mentioned three times in the SciFinder, but as far as I see was it never prepared, but calculated in QSAR studies. The following reference:
found that psi-DOB was the most potent of the calculated compounds.
The citation:
also describes the material, but I can’t get them and can’t say anything about the results.
Concerning the synthesis: Halogenation at the 4-position of a 2,6-dimethoxy amphetymine or PEA, respectively seems to be impossible, but since 2005 you can buy 25g of 1-bromo-3,5-dimethoxybenzene for 50€. This might serve as starting material, but alkylation might not be conduced in the way described in PIHKAL for psi-DOB with lithiation (due to bromo abstraction), but there are other ways to attach the aminoalkyl side chain, like DMANE.
During my search I found an interesting compound, the dichloro TMA-6. They are easy to make, but probably hard to the body when I read the abstract.I've read of someone making some tri-chloro stuff when trying to make DOC, ended up with 3,4,6-trichloro, but its active at 5mg and was well liked anyway, I wonder if you can just take some DOC and chlorinate it more to end up with 3,4,6 or a mix of 3,4 - 4,6 - 3,4,6-chloro-2,5-dma?
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
yaesutom said:
I guess 2,6-DMAs would not be impossible to make but probably not as easy as the 2,5-DMA, due to the latter having the methoxy groups on a para position from one-another. I am mostly likely bullshitting so please wait untill an experienced chemist comments on that :D. I'm simply talking out of hunches. I will leave the halogenation discussion to EN1 since he is obviously more knowledgeableth than I
Yes, there are countless possibilities beyond shulgin. I just think the problem is that many people are afraid to try things that are 100% alien. However, I admit, as interested as I am with para-methyl/methyoxy phenethylamines I am bored with 5-HT psychedelics and would love to see research moving more towards NMDA-antagonists and the like :D
Yes, TMA-6 seems to be delightfully cheap nowadays. I realy wonder why it never picked up any momentum. SOmething tells me it is because these psychedelics tend to need a LOT of "work" with them in order to unlock their potential. As I mentioend, I have not tried TMA6 yet, but hope I'll have the chance to do so soon. However, all that I heard indicates that it is identical to TMA-2 but longer.
As for me, 2C-D itself tends to be very stimulating at the first half of the trip (which usually lasts around 4 hours, rectally). The stimulation is very pleasant and it is the only drug that makes me want to get up and dance (I'm not a dancing sort of guy :D). There arent many side effects. There is the typical phenethylamine chills during the comeup and the sweatie. I found TMA2 to be identical except it takes 2 hours to come up (thus, longer period of (mostly pleasant) stimulation and chills).
Again, I don't know why anyone with the ability to produce garbage like MDA can't be half-assed to fo the easier way and create a treasure like TMA2!
Please let us know of your opnions on TMA6 Tom, and make sure you compare to 2C-D]
nanobrain
Bluelighter
ahem, although TMA-2 was not assayed, TMA-6 proved nothing like 2C-D. the former has a heavier stim feel to it, more confusion and less of the razor-sharp clarity that i find comes w/2C-D.
while the onset for both is fairly quick via oral, ~25 min. for C-D, ~35 for TMA, the latter's somatic effects are heavier - GI tract load, peripheral tingling, some discoordination, thermo fluctuations - TOMSO without booze, i spose.
no 'ding' lightbulb of bright connections type moments which oft occur w/2C-D, 'muddled but not too befuddled' is one way to describe the mindstate which lasts some 8 hours w/TMA.
i also see little merit in boosting w/TMA - this cannot be said for 2C-D, which comes and goes in 3 hours.
i have also noted an ease of nonpushy access to seemingly long ago forgotten memory-experience cognets going back to the earliest mnemonic recall with even low 2C-D doses, not at all present w/TMA or for that matter any other phen (2C-T-4 / 2C-P not yet sampled).
TMA and 2C-D have been combined in low doses with little observed synergism.
an analogy: TMA-6 is good for (and feels like) a hangover on a cheery Sunday when you have to repaint the house even though you have something else in mind.
2C-D is like shredding on 5 feet of virgin pow-pow freshies off a wicked mountaintop above treeline on a holiday morning, after having a piracetam-bhang-triple sugar boosted coffee.
ummm, triple sugar extra strong double short black w/an ephemeral spot of white foam on top....what time is it?Last edited:^^^ Time for a DMT toke?
hehe and like always, a handy pipe ready with some pre-melted down DMT (try to keep it with me nearly at all times) is always handy for those psychedelics causing any nasty side effects - and of course just good to smoke as always on any other ..drug.. period heheh.
I should receive some TMA-6 soon so i'll post up a report fo' shizzle.
nanobrain
Bluelighter
^yes indeed that sounds sweet, Demon Tea is hard to beat.
hilarious shit has been known to happen to those who might grab the ol' Protopype without asking first, them be thinking it be only pot in there, hheh. did it to myself the other day actually, forgot about the premelted goodness...
so can the 2,4,6 variants be smoked / vaporised without oncogenic concerns?
It would be totally easy to convert DOC into 3,4,6-chloro-2,5-dma. Exhaustive halogenation should be really no problem, but selectibely preparing one of the dichlorinated will end in a column chromatographic mess.
It should also be no problem to double chlorinate TMA-2 or TMA-6, No Idea what would happen with the activity, but I speculate that it might last longer.
This should be done, analyzed and evaluated.
The chemistry will be simple and the yields nearly quantitatively.I know this thread is OLD and dusty(perhaps should start a new one but i feel its unnecessary)...
a-Asarone is the most potent isomer, beta is 2nd and regular asarone is least for whatever reason as NMDA antagonist. This really interests me in a chem I never thought i'd be interested in, as I my seemingly fruitless quest to find an affordable/acquirable natural dissociative-like substance continues.
I just wanted to know if anyone has access to more specifics of NMDA receptor binding profile? Could this have dissociative effects. I read it causes a decrease in locomotor activity but that doesn't sound very substantial.
Also I suspected that with something that casues liver toxicity, taking a liver enzyme inhibitor will bypass this issue and indeed taking something like cimetidine will prevent asarone induced liver toxicity via CYP450 inhibition. Also this may? increase potency of asarone i think?
My experiments w/psychotridine yeilded nothing, i thought endopsychosin was identified yett i never heard or seen anything more on the topic and even it someplace could carry or synth it i doubt it'd b affordable and Xe is just way too pricey and I dunno of anywhere I can purchase a perfected Xe recycling system. If a-asarone provides some decent fx that would be great as it apparently has quite a few beneficial health effects.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
alpha-asarone is the trans isomer, beta-asarone is cis
doesn't look like they're strong NMDA antagonists, just that they block nmda induced excitotoxicity somehow
i think its healthiest not to eat propenylbenzenes
