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So how excactly does MDMA damage occur?

dezz

dezz

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
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1,662
Ofcourse, I'm familiar with your serotonin depleting and the neurotoxicity involved, but I wonder how the damage actually progresses over time.
Is it long and steady? Can you actually see it coming or is it like your fine, and after one roll too many you're an utter emotional/depressed mess and it's too late?

I'm just curious and want to use MDMA in a responsible manner. But I would like to know some of the warning signs when you need to tone it down a notch, if there are any.
I'm rolling once a month/2 months now, and I feel that this is the perfect timeline for me. Naturally on the 6th week or something I just feel like it's "time" and I've waited more then enough to roll again.
I'm just wondering if this feeling is enough and if I can really trust my own statement.

I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from, and I would appreciate some feedback on this :)
 
MDMA destroys and degenerates sertonergic neural pathways.
 
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From what i recall, damage occurs to your serotonin receptors/transporters because once your serotonin has been depleted, they begin to recieve/transport the excess dopamine that has been released from the MDMA.

First Bad Comedown should have a pretty good answer to this....
 
once every 1/2 months sounds fine. but when brain zaps start appearing and you start feeling a bit moody/emotionally empty, stop doing MDMA. you shouldn't have many problems with your limited useage though
 
I didn't always use it once a month/2 months though. When I first discovered it I used it weekly, and after a while I did infact experience brainzaps. They were combined with sleep paralysis at the time. I would wake up unable to move, feeling episodes of heavy pressure in my head and body. It was a pretty clear sign that I needed to stop, and I did. After 2 weeks or so the paralysis and brain zaps completely stopped. I'm just curius how much you can trust your gut on MDMA damage, does it sneak up on you, or does it get progessively worse over time?
 
Wait is sleep paralysis a symptom of MDMA use? Because I did experience that back when I was rolling but I never thought it was the MDMA
 
sleep paralysis can be triggered by things like MDMA. i used to get it now and again after using Mephedrone or MDMA. think a lack of sleep can be the issue as well
 
True, I never even heard of sleep paralysis but when I abused MDMA, there it was : / I wish there was something like MDMA that isn't so bad for you :P
 
I was under the impression that it is far from established that mdma directly causes physical damage to the brain.
What it does do is upset the balance of the many chemicals in the brain.
Because serotonin is released, the serotonin receptors become less sensitive to serotonin. It is said that frequent use will lead the serotonin receptors no longer returning to their factory settings.
Another concern relates to mdma metabolites. If you take a moderate amount of mdma as a single dose the mdma that acts in the brain is fully metabolized. However if you take more mdma during the roll, especially more than an hour after the first dose, there is no more serotonin to release and the mdma is not consumed and leads to the release of other less benign chemicals.
 
Everyone's different, some people are better at ignoring bad side effects than other. I can tell you that when i was using every 6 weeks like you it caught up to me pretty quickly. I was still a heavy stoner but the mdma was setting off an anxiety response in me and when id smoke i would be very anxious. Besides the anxiety part i noticed i was more depressed than before, you may be different though.
 
also keeping your body temperature cool helps. increased body temperatures leads to neuro-toxicity. i have afoaf who swears that 5htp supplements for about 2 or 3 days after using has completely eliminated the depression he got like 2 days after the binge.
 
Yeah, I've always been carefull with body temperature. What works best for me is not simply drinking alot of water, i order it with some ice and then rub the ice on my neck and forehead and such. Keeps the blood cold if you know what I mean. Using this technique always cools me right down :)
 
trance in fraance said:
From what i recall, damage occurs to your serotonin receptors/transporters because once your serotonin has been depleted, they begin to recieve/transport the excess dopamine that has been released from the MDMA.

First Bad Comedown should have a pretty good answer to this....
Click to expand...


Wow, the pressure is on...
I have been typing very short replies this morning, so I hope that will suffice!

The exact cause of damage isn't definitively known, but it IS known that MDMA damages the 'serotonergic pathways' as LaCaster said.
There is no doubt that this happens.

The metabolites of MDMA, or a dopamine metabolite, may find their way into the serotonin transporter and receptor site.
This destroys mitochondria, or genetic information, and creates PEROXIDE radicals which oxidize neurons.

Even typical 'safe' use of MDMA is likely re-distibuting serotonin axons from the cortex, the higher brain, to the hypothalamus.
This is the control center of the endocrine system, and it determines all of the magical effects of the drug.
With high doses or REPEATED doses, the amount of 'damage' to this network becomes greater and greater.

The OP may be curious as to whether or not this happens EVERY time or with specific progression...

Research methods CANNOT detect the answer to your question.
Animal research very clearly shows degeneration of the network and a 'lasting reorganization', but this occurs from high or repeated doses.
Primate research suggests that humans are more susceptible at lower doses, and this holds true for many other drugs.

Most likely the damage DOES occur with each dose.
But the brain has a GREAT deal of plasticity, so the 'damage' can be viewed as 'alterations' to the network's distribution of axons.
Since 'acute' models show that the 'alterations' never return to NORMAL, it could be assumed that a minor version of the SAME thing happens with 'normal' dosing.

In other words, your brain will adapt more and more each time you roll.
Eventually these modifications will add up and you will feel less euphoria when rolling.
'Loss of magic' can take a VERY long time to recover from, with some people proclaiming MAJOR brain damage and a complete loss of self.
Such extreme reactions may be a sign of 'axotomy' or the loss of entire branches of axons.
Sometimes the 'damage' occurs in a massive wide-spread manner....
But for many people the 'alterations' are modest and easily ignored.

Until one day...

In healthy humans, MDMA abolishes TPH, the enzyme that synthesizes serotonin, for 1-3 months.
For this reason, along with numerous anecdotal reports, 90 days is the minimum recommended spacing.
Violating this guideline may cause lower serotonin levels next time you roll.

And low levels of serotonin may be what allows the 'toxic metabolites' to squeeze into the 5HT receptors!

Lots of research backs up the idea that 'heavy' users still discontinue their usage within 100-200 doses, with only a minority going beyond this.
And MOST people never reach 'heavy' status.
These are signs not to be ignored.

Hope this helped.
 
First Bad Comedown said:
In healthy humans, MDMA abolishes TPH, the enzyme that synthesizes serotonin, for 1-3 months.
For this reason, along with numerous anecdotal reports, 90 days is the minimum recommended spacing.
Violating this guideline may cause lower serotonin levels next time you roll
Click to expand...

^This . . . Seriously!!

If you can maintain this rule (I personally utilize a twice a year schedule) you will never "loose the magic" and and will not experience some of the long term problems you may read here. I've been "occasionally" enjoying the wonder that is MDMA for 15 years (about) with no side effects save 1. My only side effect? Occasionally I will hear a track or think of an experience and will almost roll for a few minutes based purely on the memory of the experience. . . now, call THAT a side effect :D

Seriously though. . . Everything in moderation.
 
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