Opioids Snorting Oxy, does this mean I'm doing a lower mg than what is intended? I'll explain

[sneakdiss]

Ok. So I know eating Oxy and shooting it (from experience and from source knowledge) give you higher bioavailability rates. I assume this guarantees that when you buy, say a 30 mg roxi, you can assume that you put 30 mg's of oxycodone in your body.

Now, this is a question I've always wondered about, but never actually had the drive to post here until today. Say I just want to snort my 30 mg roxi right? Since the bioavailability of that ROA is lower, does this mean I'm still putting 30 mg's of the drug into my body, or does less of the drug, say 20-25 mg go into my body?

I ask all of this just to kind of gauge my moderation and use of the drug. It doesn't make a huge deal in the long run now that I'm writing and thinking about this, but it's still a nagging thought in my brain.

Anyone? Thanks.

 

[rob007]

it varies when you snort. depending how hard or fast or where the powder lands, it will vary. also, oxy is more bio available orally. if you need it to the mg, then shoot it or eat it. when you snort, it might be anywhere from 20 to 30mgs or roxi getting in you. also do smaller lines and switch noses and take breaks between bumps for best absorbation.

 

[PittsburghMan988]

sup bro ill help you out a lil bit use a hose clamp to grind your oxy down with so you can accurately dose yourself up your nose this helps alot to conserve your pill homie hope this helps and btw yeah you are right about the bio-rate by puttin it up your nose if u were slammin it or eatin em you would be gettin more of the drug so you are gettin less by snorting it pretty much common sense

 

[pbuilder]

sup bro ill help you out a lil bit use a hose clamp to grind your oxy down with so you can accurately dose yourself up your nose this helps alot to conserve your pill homie hope this helps and btw yeah you are right about the bio-rate by puttin it up your nose if u were slammin it or eatin em you would be gettin more of the drug so you are gettin less by snorting it pretty much common sense

Yea but the thing is if you eat it, unless you got a empty stomach, you won't get as high and will feel like your high from a lower dose, just for a longer period of time. Because it takes 1-2 hours to fully absorb with food in your stomach, however when snorted your gonna peak within a short period and be very high, but your high will diminish sooner. So if you want intensity, snort it, if you want duration but less euphoria because of lower oxy blood content levels at one given time, eat it.

 

[PeacePipeChief]

eat some and snort some , then snort more . obviously not at dangerous amounts but thats what id do .

 

[weekday warrior]

Its pretty simple math really, look up the BA rates, you will get a percentage, divide the total amount of the drug(in mgs, grams doesnt matter)by 100. So 30 mg divided by 100 is .3 take the number you came to then multiply it by your ROA.
100mg iv=100%BA so 100mg in your bloodstream
100mg 50%BA would be 50 mg etc
one piece of advice i would give for snorting is since your ba is higher simply eating it but you want that fast onset you can get the best of both worlds by snorting it then ten minutes later snorting some water to wash it down into your stomache.

Heres a question ive always wanted to know the answer to, if i snort some oxy lets say the BA is 50 percent, if i waited untill the full 50% was in my bloodstream would 50% of it still be available since only half got absorbed intranasally? If not where would the remainder go? If i took what was left in my nose after the 50% was absorbed what about that remaining 50% makes it unable to be absorbed by my mucas membrane? I just dont understand what makes half of it useable then the other half cannot be absorbed...

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Ok. So I know eating Oxy and shooting it (from experience and from source knowledge) give you higher bioavailability rates. I assume this guarantees that when you buy, say a 30 mg roxi, you can assume that you put 30 mg's of oxycodone in your body.

Now, this is a question I've always wondered about, but never actually had the drive to post here until today. Say I just want to snort my 30 mg roxi right? Since the bioavailability of that ROA is lower, does this mean I'm still putting 30 mg's of the drug into my body, or does less of the drug, say 20-25 mg go into my body?

With some drugs, the drug needs to go through the liver to be turned into its active form ("pro-drugs"). With oxycodone it both the oxycodone itself is active and some of it gets converted by the liver to oxymorphone. When snorted, you are still putting 30mg of oxycodone into your body, just less of the active forms reach your bloodstream. This is because when you snort a drug, it goes straight into your bloodstream, whereas when you take it orally it first gets metabolized in the gut and the liver and then enters systemic circulation in the bloodstream. This "first pass" as it's called is where a lot of the drug gets rapidly metabolized. When you snort it, it enters the bloodstream without going through the gut and liver and then begins circulating and going through the liver to be metabolized.

Heres a question ive always wanted to know the answer to, if i snort some oxy lets say the BA is 50 percent, if i waited untill the full 50% was in my bloodstream would 50% of it still be available since only half got absorbed intranasally? If not where would the remainder go? If i took what was left in my nose after the 50% was absorbed what about that remaining 50% makes it unable to be absorbed by my mucas membrane? I just dont understand what makes half of it useable then the other half cannot be absorbed...

Bioavailabilty is not how much drug gets into your body, it is the percentage of an administered dose of the drug that reaches systemic circulation in the bloodstream active. It doesn't mean the rest is just sitting in your nose. A number of factors can affect bioavailability, including absorption and metabolism. When a drug is taken orally, for example, it goes through the gut and liver where a portion of the drug is quickly deactivated into inactive metabolites and/or quickly activated into to active metabolites (depending on the drug). True bioavailability can vary greatly from person to person, the published bioavailabilty numbers for a given drug are just rough averages.

To find out the bioavailability of a given drug and given ROA, they generally measure how much of that drug is in a person's blood after injection and how much is in the blood after the other ROA (oral, nasal, sublingual, rectal, etc) and compare them. With a pro-drug I would guess they would compare the amount of active metabolites to an IV dose of the active metabolite, I'm not sure exactly how the BA for oxycodone is calculated and whether they only measure the oxycodone itself or its other active metabolites like oxymorphone (anyone know?)

When taking a particular drug nasally does not give 100% BA, depending on the specific drug and formulation, it might be due to a number of factors such as:
- some of the drug drips into the throat before it has a chance to be absorbed and has to pass through the digestive system
- the physical properties of the drug may cause poor absorption (it does not dissolve readily or cannot easily penetrate the membrane)
- not all of the drug may be converted to its active metabolite
- not all of the drug is getting absorbed as some falls/drips out of the nose or is left in the nasal cavity and then removed when you blow your nose, etc

 

[THC2LSD]

Oxycodone is very active on it's own, it accounts for most of the activity in most people.It's not really a pro-drug. Most people don't metabolize that much oxycodone to oxymorphone. Still, it'll convert to oxymorphone IV at the same rate as oral. The enzymes are also in the bloodstream. Even codeine, a pro-drug, is twice as strong IM as oral.

Oxycodone is very lipophilic and water soluble.Unlike morphine, it has no problem crossing the mucus membrane of the nose.

There's ONE SMALL study on oxycodone's nasal bioavailability. It was a small study in Finland with 3 men and 7 women with a preparation not found in the US.They did not compare it to oral. It's hardly a clinical trial representing hundreds of diverse people. Even then it showed that IN oxy peaked in 25 minutes vs. 1-2 hours orally.

IME snorted oxy's about %25 stronger and can be felt in 5 minutes. IMHO a larger study would probably show that it's bioavailability is higher IN than oral.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Oxycodone is very active on it's own, it accounts for most of the activity in most people. It's not really a pro-drug. Most people don't metabolize that much oxycodone to oxymorphone. Still, it'll convert to oxymorphone IV at the same rate as oral. The enzymes are also in the bloodstream. Even codeine, a pro-drug, is twice as strong IM as oral.

Oxycodone is very lipophilic and water soluble.Unlike morphine, it has no problem crossing the mucus membrane of the nose.

There's ONE SMALL study on oxycodone's nasal bioavailability. It was a small study in Finland with 3 men and 7 women with a preparation not found in the US.It's hardly a clinical trial representing hundreds of diverse people. Even then it showed that IN oxy peaked in 25 minutes vs. 1-2 hours orally.

Interesting. Do you have any links that explain exactly how oxy is metabolized and what the primary active forms/metabolites are, how the BA of oxy and codeine are measured (are they just measuring the oxycodone or codeine and not the other active metabolites?), and the study that determined the nasal BA? This stuff is interesting to me. I agree that if there has only been one tiny study done on nasal BA that it is not very conclusive then. Also, as I said, actual BA varies greatly from person to person.
EDIT: found the nasal study - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1399-6576.1997.tb04684.x/abstract

They did not compare it to oral.

A study to determine nasal BA would not have to compare it to oral, BA for a ROA only needs to compare to IV, all BAs are relative to IV.

IME snorted oxy's about %25 stronger and can be felt in 5 minutes. IMHO a larger study would probably show that it's bioavailability is higher IN than oral.

Stronger and faster effects do not necessarily equate to a higher BA. It just means the drug is absorbed faster and the peak is higher.

 

[THC2LSD]

Interesting. Do you have any links that explain exactly how oxy is metabolized and what the primary active forms/metabolites are, how the BA of oxy and codeine are measured (are they just measuring the oxycodone or codeine and not the other active metabolites?)

http://www.rxlist.com/roxicodone-drug/clinical-pharmacology.htm

Absorption

About 60% to 87% of an oral dose of oxycodone reaches the systemic circulation in comparison to a parenteral dose. This high oral bioavailability (compared to other oral opioids) is due to lower pre-systemic and/or first-pass metabolism of oxycodone.

Metabolism

Oxycodone hydrochloride is extensively metabolized to noroxycodone, oxymorphone, and their glucuronides. The major circulating metabolite is noroxycodone with an AUC ratio of 0.6 relative to that of oxycodone. Oxymorphone is present in the plasma only in low concentrations. The analgesic activity profile of other metabolites is not known at present.

The formation of oxymorphone, but not noroxycodone, is mediated by CYP2D6 and as such its formation can, in theory, be affected by other drugs.

Noroxycodone exhibits very weak anti-nociceptive potency compared to oxycodone, however, it undergoes further oxidation to produce noroxymorphone, which is active at opioid receptors. Although noroxymorphone is an active metabolite and present at relatively high concentrations in circulation, it does not appear to cross the blood-brain barrier to a significant extent. Oxymorphone, is present in the plasma only at low concentrations and undergoes further metabolism to form its glucuronide and noroxymorphone. Oxymorphone has been shown to be active and possessing analgesic activity but its contribution to analgesia following oxycodone administration is thought to be clinically insignificant, based on the amount formed. Other metabolites (α- and β-oxycodol, noroxycodol and oxymorphol) may be present at very low concentrations and demonstrate limited penetration into the brain as compared to oxycodone. The enzymes responsible for keto-reduction and glucuronidation pathways in oxycodone metabolism have not been established.

http://www.rxlist.com/percodan-drug/clinical-pharmacology.htm Oxymorphone is usually found in trace amounts. However, I think I've read that in some luck individuals it can be 10-15%. Wonder if doriden would work with oxy?

A study to determine nasal BA would not have to compare it to oral, BA for a ROA only needs to compare to IV, all BAs are relative to IV.

Of course. What I meant was there was no oral as a control to directly compare. I've read BA as low as 50% or as high as 87%. So an average of 45% +/-34% isn't much lower.

If it is lower, where does it go? It makes no sense!Maybe the rest is literally in your head, meaning higher brain concentrations

Stronger and faster effects do not necessarily equate to a higher BA. It just means the drug is absorbed faster and the peak is higher.

I really don't care if it's bioavailability is 10%, all I know is that for me it's stronger and lasts almost as long as oral.

 

[sneakdiss]

To the first two replies, I wasn't asking what I should do, or how I should do it. I've eaten, snorted and IV'd enough of this drug for many peoples lifetimes. lol. I appreciate the responses though.

The question was, in a nutshell, does snorting it still administer 30mg's of oxycodone to your bloodstream.

 

[THC2LSD]

Not like IV, but practically the answer is yes.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Thanks for posting that info/links THC2LSD

What I meant was there was no oral as a control to directly compare. I've read BA as low as 50% or as high as 87%. So an average of 45% +/-34% isn't much lower.

Ah, that makes sense. Who knows if those people were average metabolizers if they didn't see what their plasma levels with oral were.

If it is lower, where does it go? It makes no sense!Maybe the rest is literally in your head, meaning higher brain concentrations I really don't care if it's bioavailability is 10%, all I know is that for me it's stronger and lasts almost as long as oral.

Interesting idea. I think it couldn't just stay in the brain, it would have to come out into your blood so that would be getting measure too, correct? I listed a few possible reasons in my previous post as to why the plasma levels might be less. But I did read some studies that said that when a drug is administered nasally some of it goes directly to the brain. This is a controversial idea, but it has been reported in credible papers. Here's a review of some of the studies: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17472409