Smoking After Cannabis (Bad Trip) Induced Derealization?

[TheBoyInTheBubble]

I'm a 17yo old boy, suffering from DP/DR because of a cannabis bad trip experience that kinda traumatised me. I'll tell you a brief version of my story, and I hope someone could help me, answer the questions, give advice to me... Voila!

Here we go! And about a year and a half ago (maybe more) I was at a friends house and I smoked a joint of cannabis...My last. I had a bad trip!!! For the context: I was pretty tired (partys the nights before, so smoking, etc), and that one joint suddenly destroyed me. I fell unconscious for a couple of minutes w/o noticing it because I can only remember lighting the joint, then waking up on the floor, with cold sweat. I remember looking at my friends talking, while my heart was racing, and i was grabbing onto the nearest table cuz i felt like i was leaving my body, leaving reality. My mind was like confused of its own existance and fonction. I really felt like I was going to die, or at least leave my body, and live in a 3rd person like way, or something like that. I dont know i was scared and high. mybe a bit too "high"..
Anyway, i went back home and went to bed (alone in house, paranoid, and had a lot of trouble falling asleep). The next morning i woke up, and actually didn't "feel awake". It was th first time i felt that. And ever since, I've never felt a "real" waking up, as i felt before. Probably just paranoia or something, i dont know.
For about a month or two after that night, I was in a bad state. No concentration, no appetite, paranoia, anxiety, blurry and distorted vision of the world around me, i felt like there was a glass wall in front of me, like my life was a film that i was watching on a screen, like i could see the same things as everyone else, i lived the same things, etc, but it just didnt feel 100% real. LIKE I'M IN A DREAM..
Those feelings are still there, but much less. I can cope with them basically. At the start i just felt i was going to die, or that i was really high and thought i would never ever come down.
I still feel like i'm still a bit up there, that i don't belong in this world, that my brain is missing a thing that made me live life and think sincerely "Yes! This is reality!". I still feel like my mind has got cotton wool in it, preventing the full fonction of my senses and having a clear mind, a free mind, not gasping for air in a pool of negative/paranoia-like/reality doubting thoughts and feelings. In other words, I've always kept in me, somewhere, a kinda doubt of my life, of reality, of my existance, and I constantly (often, not on purpose) check if i'm not in a dream.. I wish, i wish hard, that one morning I'll "wake up", I'll feel the difference, and I'll say to myself "Finally.. !"
My life is an everyday struggle in my subconscious negative thoughts. But like i said, i do feel better than a year ago! Well, i don't know if the derealization has gradually left, or if I've just gotten used to it..
Anyway, it's a long story, a very long struggle (I'm not wining, believe me), and a part from that my life hasn't fallen to pieces (socially). I do wish i could go back in time and not smoke that one joint, but then maybe it was going to happen one day or the other. And maybe it has opened me up to myself and made me think more (existanciel thoughts, etc).. Maybe a bit to much sometimes (sometimes ive gotten anxiety waves, and an even stronger "lost in the clouds" feeling..).

ANYWAY! I came here mainly to ask a question... I havent touched cannabis ever since the incident. I'm scared that if i smoke again i'll have another bad trip and be thrown back in the derealisation (as like at the begginning!), but I still am tempted. More and more. I also feel more and more confident and in control of myself. My friends all smoke, and so : I was wondering what you all think about smoking again? Of course, not regularly like before. just everynow and then (like at a party or so). Do you think it's harmfull in my case? Do you think it'll just be fine (if i dont panic) and might even help my case? (I read once that a schizophrenia developing boy, smoked some after bad experience and it actually helped). I was thinking maybe the "coming down" from being high, would help me see the contrast between "being in the clouds" and reality for real (as i consider myself already kinda in the clouds); is that possible?
Basically, is it wise, not wise or "neutral" for me to try smoking weed again ? Just a bit, slowly, with the right people... (Some blueberry. Not too cerebral, more physical high/stone).

That's it. I really hope someone can help. Really.
Thank you to whoever managed to read/answer my post, and sorry for the bad writing.
Peace, and good vibes to all those suffering from derealization! Or anything else!

 

[Chocolate-Salad]

My younger brother is your age and also had the same issue. Supposedly it faded with time but never went away.

And your question..

Basically, is it wise, not wise or "neutral" for me to try smoking weed again ? Just a bit, slowly, with the right people... (Some blueberry. Not too cerebral, more physical high/stone).

Sometimes the effects of drugs aren't always perfectly linear with dosage. That next toke could give you an out of body experience or just get you baked.
You're young. Your brain is still developing.

I can't tell you what you can and cannot do.. but you pretty much already answered your own question.

friends house and I smoked a joint of cannabis...My last.

kinda traumatised me

fell unconscious ... - ... I really felt like I was going to die

I do wish i could go back in time and not smoke that one joint

I can pass on some information that was researched by someone who went through the same thing but I can't verify its accuracy. Supposedly, a combination of a SSRI and Modafinil helped treat similar symptoms. If they've been persisting for as long as they have, you should probably see a good psychiatrist to correct that brain chemistry if you haven't already.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Yes, if you smoke again it would be harmful. Scientific studies of the past ten years have all but demonstrated that if people, young like you, smoke cannabis and have a negative psychological reaction, and continue to smoke despite this reaction, that your brain is likely to develop negative structural changes and your mind is likely to develop mental illness. Would you like sources?

Do you know what psychosis/schizophrenia is?

 

[TheBoyInTheBubble]

Chocolate-Salad :
Your brother had a bad trip on weed, that resulted in a trauma and dp/dr..?

What do mean by "out of body experience" ?
If I just get stone, or gentle high, and manage to controls myself (not panic and stuff), it shouldn't be that harmfull right? Or will my brain DEFINITELY react wrong (panic anxiety more dr ) ?
Thing is, it could sound stupid but somehow I actually think there's a possibility that smoking again could be positive, even helpful for my dp/dr/paranoia/etc..
Like for example, seeing as I feel a bit "in a dream" probably because my recovery was so progressive that I didn't notice the change (so still have a dreamlike feeling, even if i could be cured!), well maybe if I smoke, get high (without no problems not too much), feel in a dreamy state (more than i do naturally) then the "coming down" fron the high would kind of be contrasting for me to say to myself "actually, I'm not at all like what I was like just then. I'm not at all high or dreamy..". I don't know, I've thought about that, that's about it.
The other reasons for wanting to smoke again are: If I do get high and get over it with no problems, ill feel proud, less anxious (cause with most of dp/dr) and "freer". In the sens that "I know I can do it. It's no longer a limit.."
Also, for a lot of social reasons (friends, fun, etc). But mainly because it will simply give me a lot of self confidence and probably get rid of an "obstacle" in my life that unconsciously holds me back, creates doubt and anxiety. I don't know, I really do want to take up smoking again, just for being able to! I sure wont smoke a lot again..
Anyway, but I'm scared of damaging my brain, having a panic attack or something. And then maybe becoming schizophrenic for example, I don't know.. That's worrying !
But is it that probable ? If I just go real slow, control myself, will it really harm me ?

Just by curiosity, what would the psychiatrist really say or do to help that much ?
I have seen someone. She's an osteopath, psychiatric, and many other stuff.. She helped a bit, but didn't really get rid if anything..

Anyway thanks for your answers! I'm gratefull! peace !

 

[TheBoyInTheBubble]

Ho-Chi-Minh :
Until what age does the brain grow and develop ? Like I said, I'm 17 and I feel like 98% cured. Can't feel the progress..
I understand, but it's not like I carried on smoking straight after; It's nearly a year and a half later and I haven't touched cannabis.
And I'm simply thinking of taking it up again for the good times. I'm will never abuse it ever, and for starting I will go real slow.. Will it still be harmfull?

Yes I do kind of know of those two illnesses. It's scary. It scares me at least. But do I really run the risk of become schizophrenic/psychotic that much?
And also I've read that a large couple of scientifics deny the influence of marijuana for schizo and all.. I don't know, as you can see, I'm finding it hard to resist temptation and taking no for an answer in a certain way..
But I really appreciate you advice, and I read it all with an open mind and respect!
Thanks.
(You can answer the stuff I asked Chocolate-Salad if you want; I kind of mixed the stuff ! )

 

[Hoes call me santa]

If you still feel the effects of derealization or anything that you would relate to your incident, I would not suggest that you smoke again. You could reconsider that once you feel better, but go very slowly.

I had the same feeling when I used mdma too often at your age and after eating healthy, doing a lot of exercise and a lot of time I came back to feeling "normal". I can only suggest you the same thing.

 

[TheBoyInTheBubble]

Hoes call me santa :
Well, I do feel those feelings still, but they're very subtle. It's like they're part of my subconscious now. I don't know how to describe it. It's like I could be all normal and stuff, enjoying myself with friends, and then suddenly my brain will just switch (at the same time as what's happening normally) and observe instead of live the moment, analyze things and create unwanted thoughts linked to dp/dr, UNWILLINGLY !
I can't control that, it just happens. Like to remind me that my brain can flip and interpretate life differently, create a fake feeling or disconnection feeling with the world whenever it's wants to.
I tend to controle like my anxiety when that happens. I just let it happen..
So I do feel better ! I do feel pretty much cured, but i still have a little doubt, probably a bit left.
I don't really relate to the actual weed experience. The bad trip caused trauma and trauma cause DR in my opinion.
All I thought to do is to take one or two puffs on some "correct" weed, and see how i feel. I kinda want to, and I feel pretty much "ready" for it, but I still have a little hesitation and doubt. Hence why I creates the thread !
I still have a little fear for the worse. I don't want to have a panic attack, another bad trip, or worse something like mental damage resulting in an illness/disorder. That's f****d up!

I do do those kind of things ! Song worry !
May I ask, when you came back to "normal", did to feel the change? Did you feel the contrast and think "damn ! In finally better!"? Or was it very progressive, and you didn't notice it either; you just suppose its gone?
Also, how long did it last ?
And have you taken anything (drugs) ever since ?

That's about it. Thanks a lot ! Appreciate it !

 

[TheBoyInTheBubble]

Also, some people would have seen/lived my bad trip experience and all, and not had flipped out as me, just ignored it and carried in with life, with smoking, and those people are okey, they survive..
Maybe the experience is horrific in my mind and memories, but there could be worse and maybe smoking is really that bigger obstacle as I've created it in my mind...
The bad trip, the weed, that's something. The trauma, the dp/dr that's something else..

 

[sonicwhite]

Once you have reached that point....It's hard to tell whether your ever going to forget the trauma it has caused you.....I smoked one hit from a bowl five years ago and I thought I was dead and standing before God. I just can't see anything scarier then that.....One time it happened but I was able to shift my focus onto something else and woke up the next morning and was fine......The second time did it for me and I have suffered from it ever since and this was in 08....I mean I don't go up to ppl and ask an I dead? lol like i used to....Or always wanting to IP cuz I couldn't understand what I was going thru. Klonopin was the answer for me.....It bought me back down from that trippy high....I've tripped shrooms acid I think some 2 cb and I think all of that just scrambled my brain to where if I smoke weed now it just draws it out. I would just say your going to have to accept the raw possibility that maybe you have to cope with this and life will never be the same. You'll have a better perspective on life and how to help others...Sorry you had to go thru it like me but man, sometimes we humans just make bad choices.

 

[figure11]

I've had very similar experiences, actually. Are you on any psych meds? Being on SSRI's sent me into a total fucking psychosis hell. Especially if mental health issues are in the family, be careful with it. I tried to smoke pot again after having a terrible reaction and it only gets worse. Not every drug works for every person.

 

[Bagseed]

yeah you should stop it for at least a long time. i continued smoking after my first panic attack last year (even though i've cut it down), and this sent me into derealization with suicide thoughts a few months later. I'm still struggling.

 

[Jagdfeld]

Yes, if you smoke again it would be harmful. Scientific studies of the past ten years have all but demonstrated that if people, young like you, smoke cannabis and have a negative psychological reaction, and continue to smoke despite this reaction, that your brain is likely to develop negative structural changes and your mind is likely to develop mental illness. Would you like sources?

Do you know what psychosis/schizophrenia is?

I'd be curious to read them.

Anyway, Bubble, I experienced much of what you described for a year after combining MDPV and cannabis and having a horrendous experience. I was in and out of the hospital quite alot (I had no idea what was happening and why it wouldn't go away), but never stuck with any particular medicine other than alprazolam when I felt as if my head was going to explode or my heart was going to fail. I also experienced terrifying derelization that would seemingly strike out of no where. The dream state you describe sounds about right; I would feel as if I was beginning to watch myself in the 3rd person. I didn't smoke cannabis regularly throughout the year as consuming any form of it would throw me into a debilitating panic attack. Eventually, I realized I felt much better than I did a year ago and decided to see what would happen if I smoked again. I did, and nothing happened. I smoke somewhat frequently to this day with no problems whatsoever.

This may not be the best advice for you, but I figure it might give you some hope. I know the duration of your symptoms seems to be longer than I experienced, and perhaps I should be considering that, but I just wanted to give you a viewpoint of someone who understands where you're coming from.

Forgot to add I was 19 when I first started having these problems.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

^You're right, your "advice" was not the best.

Benzodiazepines are frequently used to cover-up negative psychological symptoms of cannabis use. They don't fix anything. Its likely that you're continuing the harm yourself. The fact that you imply that you're not even aware of such studies should be a red flag to all readers.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/681533-Cannabis-amp-the-developing-brain

If I was a mod I would merge these threads and/or create a mega-thread/sticky.

My words might come off as strict or rude, but I feel this is necessary; please keep in mind that I've extensively studied what little we know about psychology and psychiatry, despite not having a degree in such; that I've experienced and read about some of the worst that marijuana can bring; that I am not here to tell you what to do; that I am extensively, officially schooled in logic; and most importantly that I fear for your safety.

A couple important things to remember:
-no one can tell you exactly what will happen for sure if you continue to smoke weed
-marijuana is an extremely complicated, poorly understood substance
-the human brain is still largely a mystery
-everyone has a unique brain
-marijuana, as other drugs which get you high, can trick your mind into thinking its better for you than it really is
-you, as an adolescent, will almost definitely underestimate risk (of anything)

The general rule is that the brain is just about fully developed by age twenty-five, with a significant portion of this development happening by age eighteen. Studies examining the negative effects of marijauna on brain development usually involve people of under age eighteen. That does not mean marijuana can't have a negative impact on the brain past age eighteen, evidenced by the ample amount of people above that age who report via bluelight who experience anxiety/paranoia after using it, but the general conjecture seems to be that those most at risk are under age eighteen.

One can't feel neurotoxicity, however, as is logical, if one has a very negative psychological experience as a result of a drug, especially if symptoms persist after the drug has left your body, it can reasonably be said that the drug has harmed the brain. This has happened to you.

A drug that is being abused is a drug that is causing damage, physical or psychological. It is impossible to say whether or not smoking marijauna will cause you damage now, however, it is highly likely that it will because:
-it has in the past; you can understand why it wouldn't be smart to think that something which hurt you before won't hurt you again; I'm of course talking about your psychotic experience.
-judging from what you've written, you aren't able to appreciate the acute risk it poses, despite it damaging you, so will be more likely to use it again (and damage yourself further).

You obviously care about your health or you wouldn't be engaging in this conversation, and that is good, very, but you continue to downplay the trauma you went through.

We don't know how any given psychiatrist would treat you because treatments vary widely between psychiatrists, we aren't psychiatrists, and we only know you a very little bit. I can assure you, however, that usually a psychiatrist is more competent at telling you what to do than we are.

The one thing I can tell you that most informed psychiatrists will suggest if you have had a negative experience after smoking marijuana (such as the one you described, which doesn't sound like a benign one at that), if you have mental illness running in the family, and/or if you're young, is to not smoke marijuana under any circumstances.

There are too many people with a mental illness, who, after finally finding a stable medication regimen, tell themselves that they're fine, get off their medication, then kill themselves shortly thereafter. One cannot evaluate their own mental health

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia/index.shtml

Do you want to risk living with this? Don't you want to live the happiest life possible? Is the best course of action not clear to you?

Are you suggesting that your trauma was not caused by marijuana?

 

[Darksidesam]

I say to smoke it again just for fun would be a bad idea, it could induce it again. If you really are going to smoke it again choose a land strain or something thats higher CBD (you will have to look that up) , like in england UK Cheese is meant to have more CBD than other strains, high thc however.

Your reaction was very bad, i wouldnt recommend keep going by any means.

 

[Jagdfeld]

Benzodiazepines are frequently used to cover-up negative psychological symptoms of cannabis use. They don't fix anything. Its likely that you're continuing the harm yourself. The fact that you imply that you're not even aware of such studies should be a red flag to all readers.

I do not take benzos anymore. They are great at providing temporary relief to a problem, but I understand their long term implications. As I admitted my statement may not be the best, I concede my point; but my intention was just to provide some sort of alternate viewpoint.

Are you suggesting that your trauma was not caused by marijuana?

As this was also directed at me...rereading the OP's post and my scenario it's probable that we are experiencing different kinds of issues brought out by marijuana use. I no longer suffer any anxiety, have any depression, nor any problems focusing or doing really anything. If any trauma was caused it was probably by the MDPV I consumed and combined with some marijuana that led to a debilitating panic attack that I had to mentally overcome over the course of time. I have never had a panic attack before the incident and haven't had any or anything like it in some time since. The intense feelings of anxiety were only brought out by marijuana use for about a year after, if I didn't make that clear. I was fine and normal without it, but I tried to push my luck because of the social aspect of smoking. Eventually I just gave up and took a long break.

I also did not experience any unique agitation, thought disorders, delusions, hallucinations, just pretty bad anxiety that manifested itself in logical ways (for ex. feeling detached from reality at times).

There is nothing to apologize about as well, I know how certain substances can significantly change people's lives. I know you're just trying to help.

 

[F1n1shed]

To the OP, i experienced this before in different ways. And i was hard headed, real hard headed. I was NOT about to give up my first love .. mairjuana. I kept smoking , i have been through at least 50 anxiety attacks before(real ones, the kinds that make you think psychotic thoughts or make you feel like you are about to die at any moment). But i am here now, i have learned to shut those extreme thoughts off while high. If you really want to get high again you can, but there are some things to look out for. Start SLOW and small, take 1 or 2 hits and wait 10 minutes until you feel it. It should be a real mellow high feeling, once you feel comfortable smoke more. Do NOT go in and take a bong snapper(all in one hit) that is a sure way to go into a panic attack.

Also , you can smoke a tiny amount daily until you develop a small tolerance and get use to how the weed is affecting you. This all depends on how badly you want to smoke again, i mean the obvious answer would be to just not smoke. But trust me i know how hard that can be , especially when all your friends are having fun getting stoned. Again.. i am proof that you can learn to enjoy it again. Even though i am pretty nutts for smoking every day even though i would get an anxiety attack 7/10 times they finally do not present them self anymore. And it also doesn't seem like i have any persisting DR / DP symptoms in my life anymore.

 

[TheBoyInTheBubble]

Thanks everyone for your answers! Appreciate it!

Jagdfeld & F1n1shed : Thanks, that kinda does give me hope and some reassurance i guess. Yes it's very tempting to smoke again, even though the reasonnable decision would to quit it all together. But still. I guess the thing is to not stress, have bad thoughts and all. Just go with it, and if I start to feel "disconnected", lost, and so anxious, I'll just have to tell myself as hard as possible that it'll be ok, that it'll only make things worse otherwise. Basically, i guess. right?
Anyway, thanks for your opinions!

Darksidesam : I'm growing some Blueberry. It's mainly indica so more of a "stone" effect than some sativa mind fucking high, I suppose. Sounds legit? According to a couple of "reviews" and opinions, it isn't that much of a paranoia, strong hitting, and stuff weed. More of a mellow lazy one. Of courses in reasonnable doses!
If ever i do smoke again, it'll be my stuff, small amounts, a couple of hits. That's it. It's mainly to get my confidence back (in that area - weed - ), then I can choose to smoke more or not. But that's not the point.
Anyway, thanks to you too!

Ho-Chi-Minh : I understand and respect your opinion and researches. And yes I am fully aware of the dangers it could cause. And no i don't want to live this again (although i still am living it. just less), but it's tempting and I will never know unless i take the risk.
I'm still thinking about it, and believe me I'm not taking it all lightly. It's a combination of a social aspect, old habits, self confidence, and wanting to feel "freer" in a way, because the fact that I'm scared and preventing myself from doing something i used to love is kind of facing a brick wall that I've created in my life, a limitation due to anxiety. So I think if i managed to smoke again "happely" it may have some positive effects. Kind of relief, more confidence and joy (I would be able to do something i love with no fear, plus i would have faced a major obstacle in my life and "won"), and MAYBE (just a thought) if i get high (so being in a kinda dream like state) the coming down from it MIGHT give a bit of contrast between what feels dreamy for real, and of course reality. I don't know. It probably sounds very stupid but like i said it's just a thought...
So anyways, again, thank you! Thanks to all!

Peace.

 

[Hoes call me santa]

I do do those kind of things ! Song worry !
May I ask, when you came back to "normal", did to feel the change? Did you feel the contrast and think "damn ! In finally better!"? Or was it very progressive, and you didn't notice it either; you just suppose its gone?
Also, how long did it last ?
And have you taken anything (drugs) ever since ?

That's about it. Thanks a lot ! Appreciate it !

Sorry for the delay for the answer.

The whole "getting back to normal" thing was very progressive and I can't really remember that the thought "i'm back to feeling normal" hit me at one point in particular. I just felt way sharper in my thought process and in my memory. Also I started to feel more like I was actually living rather than just floating around doing the routine I was already involved in (going to school, work, etc). I wondered if I was going to relapse into that state, but I knew it was some chemical imbalance in my brain and time would do it's work. That feeling never came back.

My recovery process took about 3 months where I decided to stop MDMA. I would still smoke cannabis every week or so with my friends without any problems. It would actually help me cope with the feeling of desire I had for MDMA and keeping me content while I was on my break.

I would also feel better everytime I would come back from running or making exercise.

It has been about 4 years since that period, so my souvenirs aren't 100% on point. But since then I have been consuming cannabis daily for 3 years, experienced with psylocibin and 2c-b and took MDMA again a couple of times (in moderation now) and I have had no negative experience since.

I have a difficulty really giving you a good advice because your problem obviously didn't occur because of too much use of the substance, like in my case. But maybe that trauma has caused a chemical imbalance in your brain and you have to let it some time to heal.

Please keep in mind that that's only my personal experience, it's only my opinion, not based on any scientific facts.

Like I said I would really suggest you to exercise well and let time do it's work

Good luck!

 

[Darksidesam]

I think the count may be too low in blueberry.

Just because its indica doesnt mean its higher CBD necassarily.
if you really must grow it and smoke it, Go For CBD x Haze or harlequin. They have really high CBD , so it may be more medicinal and less psychoactive but maybe technically a bit safer. This is only guidance based on what ive read and understand of the cannabis plant.

 

[augustaB]

Dear The Boy in the Bubble

On my 21st birthday (40 yrs ago now) I had a very bad experience after smoking weed with hallucinations. This was followed by a couple of years of extreme paranoia.
I gradually recovered but learned that I had to stay away from cannabis because the whole psychosis would come back.
I tried talking to psychs about the experience but they were all so straight I could have been talking to a wall.
Many years later I tried mdma.
Maybe it was through the mdma that I started to work through the underlying issues that perhaps caused this episode.
Eventually I discovered that in a safe environment I could enjoy cannabis on the come down from mdma.
And in the meantime my whole personality has recovered.
I'm not saying you should try mdma, but I am saying that you need to give yourself time and let things take their course. Eventually you will find yourself getting well again.
Kindest wishes