Smokers of Fentanyl: I NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE

[whitemetalmonkey]

Dear Friends,

I'm 43 years old and I have wretched, undiagnosable spinal pain going on 21 years.

I have used every form of opiate prescribed to try and deal with it.

In a state of desperation, due to my opiates (Oxy and all others) causing me pretty much instant depression on use, I decided to try the Fentanyl patch 75mcg.

To my amazement, it had ZERO negative side effects for me. I felt normal for the first time decades. Only problem -- instant and terrible withdrawals after 2 days and no way to monitor, reduce or regulate my intake of Fentanyl.

I do not want to be on Fentanyl 24/7 for the rest of my life.

I only need pain relief short term, for 6-12 hours at a time, not 3 days straight going on forever.

There are some times I can go for a few days with no meds, and want to have that flexibility.

I asked my doctor to prescribe Actiq lollipops so that I could use Fentanyl for "breakthrough" pain only, and not have it in my system permanently and addictively.

My insurance denied the Actiq lollipops due to my not having cancer (F-you very much! People all over the country use Actiq for severe back pain.)

SO -- HERE IS MY QUESTION:

I want to smoke, very small, measured doses off my 75mcg patches. So that I'm not wearing them constantly and I get pain relief without the severe depression caused by Oxy/Dilaudid/Percocet etc. Don't ask me why, but Fentanyl causes no side effects for me.

I know smoking fentanyl is dangerous as all living hell. But I also know, many of you do it safely.

I have read many posts on Bluelight, but would like someone who is a seriously knowledgable person to mentor me on slowly, very slowly, learning how to ingest Fentanyl for breakthrough pain without using the patches stuck to me permanently for the rest of my life. I believe smoking is the right way to go.

I just forced myself off the patches and that withdrawal/detox was hell on wheels. I don't intend to use patches and get totally controlled like that again.

I want to smoke small amounts, only when I need to, and I want to do it as safely as humanly possible. Starting with the lowest level risk I can, I don't care how long it takes for me to get it right as a process.

Please respond if you know how to smoke fentanyl properly and safely.

I'm not a junkie and don't intend to become one. No judgment there, I totally do appreciate the euphoria from the drug.

I am a serious pain patient, with an insurance company who first bankrupted me by saying i had a pre-existing condition. And now that I'm on Hawaii medicare, refuses to give me the medication I need: breakthrough pain relief with Actiq lollipops.

So -- I'm going to become a Fentanyl smoker. Thank you Blue Cross.

I don't need a lecture, I do need sound, experienced advice.

Many thanks in advance. I appreciate any help I can get from you, and wish you all the best my friends.

with aloha and respect,

H.L.M.
Maui, Hawaii

 

[8-12]

I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but smoked fentanyl is definitely not what you're looking for (at least from the information you've given).

I only need pain relief short term, for 6-12 hours at a time

Smoked fentanyl will never last you 6-12 hours off of one dose, and it will last even shorter once you gain a tolerance to it with extended use until you can't do anything with your life because you have to smoke fentanyl every half hour to keep pain and withdrawal at bay.

I keep trying to type a paragraph attempting to discuss the fact that physical dependence upon and tolerance to opioids are inseparable from long-term pain relief, but there are no words I can find that I feel will really express this in a way that will change your mind. All I can say is that you cannot expect to get relief from your medication for any respectable length of time without suffering from withdrawals with its discontinuation. One of the many flaws in treating pain with opioids.

You've said you don't need a lecture and I'm afraid what I've written will seem like one, but the important part is this; smoking fentanyl will not solve your problems with pain management, and will most likely make them worse.

 

[whitemetalmonkey]

Thanks for your reply, did not sound like a lecture at all, and I appreciate your candor.

My issue is, Fentanyl is the ONLY opioid that my body can take without negative side effects. My only goal is to try to not have it so consistently in my bloodstream that I get major withdrawal symptoms.

I guess you're saying that, even if I smoked once every three days, I'd have similar withdrawal effects of a 75mcg patch permanently on my body. In other words, that there is no level of Fentanyl absorption, however sporadic, that you can have without experiencing severe withdrawals.

I hear you if that's true, but would like to test it on my own body system. For example, I could take 80 mg Oxycontin twice a day for a month, then stop on a dime, cold turkey, without the slightest withdrawal. Go for months without it, then take it again as needed, never any physical dependency.

That's what struck me as so strange about my body's response to Fentanyl. No negative side effects physically or emotionally as I've had with the Oxy, but seriously heavy withdrawals.

If I could be prescribed the Actiq lollys, that would solve my problem. Or at least answer my question.

Without them, I feel forced to try a solution with Fentanyl that might possibly work.

Again, many thanks for your considered words.

 

[8-12]

I guess you're saying that, even if I smoked once every three days, I'd have similar withdrawal effects of a 75mcg patch permanently on my body.

That was part of it, which might not apply given what you said about the oxy, but the other part was that smoking it once every three days would do nothing for you. You'd have have at most two hours of relief (probably less because you've used other opioids for pain and thus would have a tolerance) because fentanyl has a very short half-life and, in turn, duration, and smoking it only causes the drug to reach peak plasma concentrations faster, which translates to the drug lasting even shorter than when taken, say, orally.

If you're set on trying this, I'm sure someone will be able to help you with instructions, but it's not an area of expertise for me as I've never smoked fentanyl, and most of the time didn't use it in the form of the patches. Good luck.

 

[hair-O'winn]

i'm assuming you have the Mylan non-liquid/gel filled patches, correct?

 

[Cr892]

How does the Oxy make you depressed and the Fentynal do the opposite?

That sounds like a opiate tolerance, the Fentynal is much stronger.

Like the Oxy is teasing you and you get negative side effects from you're body wanting more.

 

[edgewise1]

You may want to go to "war" with the insurance company over the actiq medication. Sometimes all it takes is to call them and explain the problem. Is there documentation that you could present showing how the other opiates caused problem? Not exactly the answer you were looking for, but maybe an alternative.

 

[NomNomNom]

You may want to go to "war" with the insurance company over the actiq medication. Sometimes all it takes is to call them and explain the problem. Is there documentation that you could present showing how the other opiates caused problem? Not exactly the answer you were looking for, but maybe an alternative.

My thoughts exactly, there are many documented cases of patients being told that a procedure is "not medically necessary" or "denied due to pre-existing condition" that were reversed, and then found out to be Solely the work of malicious health company bean counters (see: Sicko). It's not a guarantee but you have nothing to lose (ok, a few hours of your time and some frustration) by appealing the decision/seeking out another doctor referral.

Good Luck man!

 

[pallidamors]

Thanks for your reply, did not sound like a lecture at all, and I appreciate your candor.

My issue is, Fentanyl is the ONLY opioid that my body can take without negative side effects. My only goal is to try to not have it so consistently in my bloodstream that I get major withdrawal symptoms.

I guess you're saying that, even if I smoked once every three days, I'd have similar withdrawal effects of a 75mcg patch permanently on my body. In other words, that there is no level of Fentanyl absorption, however sporadic, that you can have without experiencing severe withdrawals.

I hear you if that's true, but would like to test it on my own body system. For example, I could take 80 mg Oxycontin twice a day for a month, then stop on a dime, cold turkey, without the slightest withdrawal. Go for months without it, then take it again as needed, never any physical dependency.

That's what struck me as so strange about my body's response to Fentanyl. No negative side effects physically or emotionally as I've had with the Oxy, but seriously heavy withdrawals.

If I could be prescribed the Actiq lollys, that would solve my problem. Or at least answer my question.

Without them, I feel forced to try a solution with Fentanyl that might possibly work.

Again, many thanks for your considered words.

If you smoked only once every three days, you wouldn't have any withdrawal effects, not physically anyway. I think what that other BLer was getting at was that you cant really expect more than 30 minutes of relief from smoked fentanyl. Fentanyl's half life is incredibly short, which is why the patch must continuously release small amounts of fentanyl into your body in order to be effective at all. If you were smoking constantly all month, you'd certainly get withdrawals, but not once every three days.

The trade off would be that your tolerance would still rise pretty quickly, and any pain relief you got from smoking the gel would be negligible since the pain would return just as quickly as it faded.

I guess I didn't fully understand, were you talking about wearing a patch and then smoking some gel as a breakthrough medication, sort of a ghetto equivalent of actiq? Due to the short half life and rapid building of tolerance, it wouldn't work. Although I guess that would also defeat the purpose of not having it constantly in your bloodstream, either.

Really the only viable option I see is "waging war" as someone put it to pay for actiq. Actiq actually does provide great acute pain relief for several hours, and if your pain isn't flaring up every day, you maybe could get away with using them sporadically without developing physical dependence.

 

[whitemetalmonkey]

Yeah, thanks man, i'm going to try to wage war for the Actiq. Not high hopes there, but will try it.

What do you mean by 'short half life', I don't understand what that is.

The bottom line for me is really simple:

a. Fentanyl is literally, for no reason i can explain, the only opiate that works for me.

b. i don't ever want to be physically dependent on that shit again. it's extreme.

c. i don't want pain meds in my body when i don't need them.

d. i have an infinite supply of 75mcg patches, but no way to use them in a measured, appropriate way for my up and down pain.

options:

smoke a little at a time?
put a small piece of the patch on and blow dry it?
try to remove the gel and possibly ingest it some other way?

I don't know. If what you're saying is that Fentanyl is going to nail me physically addiction-wise any way i take it and in any dose, then i guess i'm screwed.

Anyway, really appreciate your thoughts.

 

[whitemetalmonkey]

no, actually i have Sandoz 75mcg... not sure if those will work. i was originally prescribed the Mylan 50mcg, and can get those back if needed.

?

 

[whitemetalmonkey]

Cr892 -- yes, it's really strange. I can take large amounts of Oxy, even on a sustained basis, months at a time, then drop it. No side effects, no withdrawals, nothing at all. Problem is, I get an instant and fierce depression from Oxy and any of it's cohorts.

Did not expect Fe to be any different. But it's the first drug that's EVER made me feel utterly normal, zero pain, zero present time side effects, etc.

Just want to be able to use it without being it's slave for life. Just taking myself off one month's worth of a 50mcg patch was probably the worst experience of my life so far. See the coming off heroin scenes in the films "Rush" and "Candy". Not cool.

So it's a real f-ing quagmire. Found the drug i need to not to want to off myself on a monthly basis, yet no way to use it in the way I've been using Oxy -- take it, leave it, use it for pain when i have it, not when i don't, etc.

It could very well be that the Actiq patches will make me physically addicted just as fast. Even with sporadic use and breaks in between.

But without the lollipops, I'm pretty desperate to try to find a way to use Fentanyl in an off and on manner. If there's a safe way to do that, I want to give it a try.

Otherwise, back to my Oxy/Dilaudid/Morphine Sulfate/Percocet hell, which frankly, is not sustainable.

To all B'lers who have responded: many thanks, your advice and wisdom is deeply appreciated.

xx HLM

 

[AskAlexa]

i know this is probably not relivent to you any longer but I'm 22 and have already been thru every medication you can think of. Luckily I'm a good kid, never been into drugs, and by the grace of God don't have an ounch worth of an addictive personality. Currently I've been placed on Exalgo & lyrica as a pain preventative (daily) and Fentora and dilauded for break thru pain. I take the tablets 400mcg. Like u I can go days/weeks with no need for medication and I won't take any, but then when that bastard pain decides it wants to play, I'm s.o.l deci

 

[AskAlexa]

What will help you tho is certainly NOT smoking it, the gel patches have a release system that accelerates or rather loses its time release components when its introduced to liquids...My suggestion to you and probably best alternative is to cut the patch into a small peice, place in your mouth and suck on it until you begin to feel the relief (and believe me u will) start small until you figure out your tolerance do NOT start with an entire patch. Best of luck to whomever is reading this in 2012. Be safe and GodBless.

 

[nAON]

Old thread, closing.