Ashley
Bluelight Crew
A 2mg reduction from 8mg is fine bro, you likely may not even feel it. It's when you get below 2mg I've found you start to feel it proper.
Ash.
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Smackie Thread
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A 2mg reduction from 8mg is fine bro, you likely may not even feel it. It's when you get below 2mg I've found you start to feel it proper.
Ash.
tentram
Ex-Bluelighter
agreed with ash. you should feel little difference.
just keep your other use in check. you don't want to start the notorious on/off the gear in limbo of bupe maintenance.
just keep your other use in check. you don't want to start the notorious on/off the gear in limbo of bupe maintenance.
Ashley
Bluelight Crew
Not hard, most clinics that do daily dosing have a waiting list and a couple of doctors on staff to prescribe the patients that attend. Alternately, you can see a GP and they can prescribe methadone or buprenorphine. Most physicians can prescribe for a certain number of patients (I think it's 5, from memory) before they need to do a course which allows them to prescribe to up to 10 patients. This is all from memory, so forgive me if my numbers are off.
If you're in NSW, I was given a phone number for the Divison Of General Practice and told to call and that they would be able to provide a list of doctors that are accepting new patients for opiate replacement therapy. I got this number from my local 'Drug & Alcohol Intake' hotline after they told me that there were 7 people on the waiting list for the local clinic and that they had been waiting 8 months! Not sure if it's state-wide or specific to my local area - Central Coast, NSW (about an hour north of Sydney).
Despite the fact that I had been attending this clinic for some 4 years, prior to a 6 week stint in detox/rehab, they still refused to write a new prescription for me and told me that I had no other choice but to go on the waiting list. They tell me this after taking urine, telling me the doctor will be with me shortly and they'll try and dose me today, and then sneakily calling the police who came and arrested me on an outstanding warrant! Hence, I went to jail without a dose and without a prescription for buprenorphine. I have since been off maintenance (daily attendance at this clinic, as they wouldn't give Subutex takeaways). Of course I always managed to smuggle them out - I had two habits to feed! Mine and my fiancee's. I was on 32mg/day for about 2 years and then 16mg/day for another 2 years until we both jumped off cold turkey.
I am tossing up the idea of going back on maintenance (low dose buprenorphine, i.e. 2mg >), or continuing to use heroin once a fortnight and buying a 4mg of bupe off the street here and there. Since reducing my use from a high dose of buprenorphine and ridiculous amounts of heroin (read: expensive) to try and trample over the bupe, I am much happier. It is much easier to live in mild withdrawal, with a fat couple of shots to look forward to every fortnight, than lugging my ass into the clinic every day and being at the mercy of their "rules".
Once they write a prescription you can then collect your dose from a chemist, or a clinic if you so choose. Sorry for rambling, I've had a shot of ice.
That phone number by the way is: Division of General Practice - (02) 4365 2294.
Ash.
chugs
Bluelighter
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Thanks Ash. sounds convoluted though. The other thing is that initially I didn't like bupe but I found doses at around 4mg were really good for holding me 2-3 days at a time. for the last two weeks I've been having 2mg then 4mg every two to three days.
Thus I'm having my first shot in two weeks tomorrow, looking forward to it in a big way. Question. I'll not have had any bupe for three days at that point (and my last dose was 3mg), apart from the psychological and some very very minor physiological symptoms I'm pretty much finished withdrawing.
If I have a dose on Saturday, will that bring back the withdrawals?
Thus I'm having my first shot in two weeks tomorrow, looking forward to it in a big way. Question. I'll not have had any bupe for three days at that point (and my last dose was 3mg), apart from the psychological and some very very minor physiological symptoms I'm pretty much finished withdrawing.
If I have a dose on Saturday, will that bring back the withdrawals?
chugs
3mg of bupe is actually a lot to go cold turkey off and it can take longer than 3 days to even start to feel the withdrawals (as you have experienced personally).
Your single dose on saturday won't bring back the withdrawals because they are no way near finished yet. In fact if your took bupe a few days ago then your withdrawals have not even started yet.
another thing is this. If you have an opiate/opioud dependency but you have managed a couple of weeks complete cold turkey and most of the withdrawals are finished, you can easily fuck up by having some heroin. A single dose will put a lot of people back into mild withdrawals and another will pretty much put them right back into full blown physical dependence. You need a couple months before you can dose recreationally again but even after that much time you will develop a physical dependence very quickly. Much more quickly than someone who has never had a dependence.
There is not a lot of known physiology I can point link to which will back this up, you'll just have to find that out for your self in the coming months-years.
So in my experience and most other's experience the following seems to be true:
One can take strong opiate recreationally but once you develop a dependence most people find that they can no longer go back to weekend/fortnightly use. Not just because they can't cope with the cravings but because a single dose strong dose will put them back into withdrawals.
Using powerful long acting opiouds like bupe or done seems to make this problem worse.
3mg of bupe is actually a lot to go cold turkey off and it can take longer than 3 days to even start to feel the withdrawals (as you have experienced personally).
Your single dose on saturday won't bring back the withdrawals because they are no way near finished yet. In fact if your took bupe a few days ago then your withdrawals have not even started yet.
another thing is this. If you have an opiate/opioud dependency but you have managed a couple of weeks complete cold turkey and most of the withdrawals are finished, you can easily fuck up by having some heroin. A single dose will put a lot of people back into mild withdrawals and another will pretty much put them right back into full blown physical dependence. You need a couple months before you can dose recreationally again but even after that much time you will develop a physical dependence very quickly. Much more quickly than someone who has never had a dependence.
There is not a lot of known physiology I can point link to which will back this up, you'll just have to find that out for your self in the coming months-years.
So in my experience and most other's experience the following seems to be true:
One can take strong opiate recreationally but once you develop a dependence most people find that they can no longer go back to weekend/fortnightly use. Not just because they can't cope with the cravings but because a single dose strong dose will put them back into withdrawals.
Using powerful long acting opiouds like bupe or done seems to make this problem worse.
Ashley
Bluelight Crew
^^ Great post Sonny Jim you're definitely speaking from experience. I had managed about 5 weeks clean from heroin/bupe and then another 2 weeks clean after I used again for a bit after I got out of rehab and they threw me into detox for 14 days. Since then I have been using heroin generally two days per fortnight and in the following days, like you said I would have mild but tolerable withdrawal symptoms that would peak within a couple days and be quite manageable after about 5 days, even 4. But as I kept using each fortnight, over the past few months I've found that I have been needing to source street bupe and codeine (if I can't get any Subutex/Suboxone) to get me through until the next fortnight. Like you said the withdrawals are gradually getting worse and the bupe seems to be making it worse due to it's long half life. 2-4mg will hold for 3 days, or until the 3rd morning anyway. The withdrawals that I then experience not having any bupe in my system have gradually been getting worse too, but are more tolerable than the heroin withdrawals.
It's like a perpetual cycle of withdrawal for like 2-3 nice shots once a fortnight. I had always wondered how long you would need to remain clean before you could have the odd shot with care and not use for consecutive days without becoming physically dependent again and waking up the next morning thinking "Fuck.".
So, a couple months you reckon? Even if you're still experiencing PAWS? Like poor sleep patterns, fatigue, depression, sneezes, yawning, etc.
Ash.
It's like a perpetual cycle of withdrawal for like 2-3 nice shots once a fortnight. I had always wondered how long you would need to remain clean before you could have the odd shot with care and not use for consecutive days without becoming physically dependent again and waking up the next morning thinking "Fuck.".
So, a couple months you reckon? Even if you're still experiencing PAWS? Like poor sleep patterns, fatigue, depression, sneezes, yawning, etc.
Ash.
cassandragemini
Bluelighter
i found that when i was down to 2-3mg of bupe my withdrawals would start at about the 18-24 hour mark but i have quite a fast metabolism. when i was on 20mg daily i could easily skip a day and not feel even the slightest tinge of withdrawals, it was great knowing i didn't have to worry about something happening that would leave me unable to get my dose and takeaways on the days i usually picked up. it definitely wasn't like that with methadone.
i agree with the others ketaman, a 2mg drop to 6mg should be breeze, bupe is far more forgiving than methadone when it comes to reducing, especially before you get down to about 2mg. i jumped straight from 20 to 12mg without any ill effects at all and only had problems when i starting reducing below 2-3mg. also i found i actually got some euphoria from the bupe when i got down to about 4mg, when i was on 20 i would feel absolutely no different after dosing than i did just before. bupe's a funny old thing.
chugs i think you may feel some slight withdrawals for the next day or more. the one similar experience i have is from a couple of years ago with h - i was pretty much through withdrawals (no major physical symptoms, just some depression and anxiety) and used again for a day and it set me back about 3 or 4 days, i wasn't back in full blown withdrawals but the couple of days after i didnt feel to good. i agree with what sonny jim said - our ex-addict bodies react differently to opiate relapse than people with no prior abuse. when i first started using h i could go a couple of weeks using everyday and not really have any withdrawals at all but now if i use for more than a day i get minor withdrawals that take a few days to clear up. i think being on 'done and bupe for over a year had something to do with this, it seems similar to the 'kindling' effect alcoholics and benzo addicts get when they use again, the withdrawals happen with less use than previously and get more sever each relapse. i had this recently with benzo's, i was clean for 2 and a half months then took about 120mg of valium over 3 days and had pretty bad withdrawals for the next 2 weeks, i wasnt expecting it and it really fucked me over.
i fell off the wagon today unfortunately, i had been clean from smack for nearly a year, i came off bupe a few months ago and have been using small amounts of codeine and pst for maintainance since then. i was driving home from work, saw a guy i used to pick up from and pulled over and ended up scoring. kind of the worst part is i also IV'd which id previously only done 3 times since day dot, i dont really know why because every time i had cravings i always imagined racking it up like i used to, i guess i had the feeling that if i was going to use then i might as well go all out. i have to say it felt fucking amazing. hopefully i can keep my shit in check for the rest of this weekend while my girlfriend and flatmate are away, i dont feel the urge to use again despite pretty much being back to baseline but one of an addict's true talents is finding a reason to use and blocking out all the consequences of using until they're knocking on the door.
i agree with the others ketaman, a 2mg drop to 6mg should be breeze, bupe is far more forgiving than methadone when it comes to reducing, especially before you get down to about 2mg. i jumped straight from 20 to 12mg without any ill effects at all and only had problems when i starting reducing below 2-3mg. also i found i actually got some euphoria from the bupe when i got down to about 4mg, when i was on 20 i would feel absolutely no different after dosing than i did just before. bupe's a funny old thing.
chugs i think you may feel some slight withdrawals for the next day or more. the one similar experience i have is from a couple of years ago with h - i was pretty much through withdrawals (no major physical symptoms, just some depression and anxiety) and used again for a day and it set me back about 3 or 4 days, i wasn't back in full blown withdrawals but the couple of days after i didnt feel to good. i agree with what sonny jim said - our ex-addict bodies react differently to opiate relapse than people with no prior abuse. when i first started using h i could go a couple of weeks using everyday and not really have any withdrawals at all but now if i use for more than a day i get minor withdrawals that take a few days to clear up. i think being on 'done and bupe for over a year had something to do with this, it seems similar to the 'kindling' effect alcoholics and benzo addicts get when they use again, the withdrawals happen with less use than previously and get more sever each relapse. i had this recently with benzo's, i was clean for 2 and a half months then took about 120mg of valium over 3 days and had pretty bad withdrawals for the next 2 weeks, i wasnt expecting it and it really fucked me over.
i fell off the wagon today unfortunately, i had been clean from smack for nearly a year, i came off bupe a few months ago and have been using small amounts of codeine and pst for maintainance since then. i was driving home from work, saw a guy i used to pick up from and pulled over and ended up scoring. kind of the worst part is i also IV'd which id previously only done 3 times since day dot, i dont really know why because every time i had cravings i always imagined racking it up like i used to, i guess i had the feeling that if i was going to use then i might as well go all out. i have to say it felt fucking amazing. hopefully i can keep my shit in check for the rest of this weekend while my girlfriend and flatmate are away, i dont feel the urge to use again despite pretty much being back to baseline but one of an addict's true talents is finding a reason to use and blocking out all the consequences of using until they're knocking on the door.
catching fish
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
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- 280
heroin and ketamine. my verdict: an awkward and confusing combination. both definitely should be done separately. now im paranoid about my breathing
cassandragemini
Bluelighter
^you ok fish? keep us posted on how you are bud, i hope you pulled through ok. laboured breathing is pretty scary. Your post was good timing for me, ive been hitting the pipe this evening and had a shot of h and was thinking of having a bump of k to fall asleep to.. Maybe I'll give that a miss and take a .5 of Xanax. Don't worry it's been 8 hours since my shot, little chance of benzo-opiate od, especially with the amount of meth in me.
Ashley
Bluelight Crew
What's ketamine and heroin like together?
A.
A.
Sustanon
Bluelighter
I'd say wait for Ketaman's reply, I believe he had both last weekend and had an awesome time. Awaiting confirmation though
Ive never been game enough to try it (more like I enjoy using opiates by themselves only)
Ive never been game enough to try it (more like I enjoy using opiates by themselves only)
Sustanon
Bluelighter
Yeah please be really careful wth mixing ur benzos with hard opiates, I'm glad you are a sensible user though and take it into consideration, had a mate who passed away on exactly that combination from what I know, may u rest in piece my good buddy
Still can't believe your gone, it just saddens me, kills my night completely.catching fish
Bluelighter
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- Jun 23, 2011
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- 280
That's what I found. I took the h first and was feeling great, and then took quite a big line of k which was probably too much for the time. I found that a lot of my euphoria was taken away and replaced by the trippy/confused feeling that k can bring. So then I swung it back in my favour with some h which was why I was concerned about my breathing. It felt really laboured but I don't know if it was just the K messing with me.
Oh well it was worth a try. Woke up with an absolute pounding headache though.
cassandragemini
Bluelighter
Im glad to hear youre ok bud.
I had this combo today though I waited about 7 hours after the h before I dosed the k. I see what you mean about the laboured breathing, I felt oddly out of breath coming down from the k, it felt like my breathing reflex wasnt working properly and I was a little bit worried I might loose control and pass out. The strange part was the bigger the breath I took the more out of breath I felt, it was an unpleasant kind of contradictory sensation and felt uncomfortable. I'll be avoiding the combo in the future.
On a side note the high from the k was one of the most profound drug experiences ive ever had, I'm not very experienced with k and had never k holed before today and im totally blown away by how amazing it was. It was like lucid dreaming and intensely euphoric on a level deeper than ive experienced on acid, mescaline and even mdma and heroin. I had sensations, thoughts and feelings about things that seemed to be buried deep in my unconscious, things I haven't thought about for 20 years and experiences that I probably haven't thought about since the time that they actually happened. One crazy thing was I even seemed to have the same function and processes of mind that i had as a kid, it was literally like travelling back in time and reliving past events in my life. I never dreamed of k holing being anything like that.
Sorry that was off topic but I've been home alone all day and needed to tell someone!
I had this combo today though I waited about 7 hours after the h before I dosed the k. I see what you mean about the laboured breathing, I felt oddly out of breath coming down from the k, it felt like my breathing reflex wasnt working properly and I was a little bit worried I might loose control and pass out. The strange part was the bigger the breath I took the more out of breath I felt, it was an unpleasant kind of contradictory sensation and felt uncomfortable. I'll be avoiding the combo in the future.
On a side note the high from the k was one of the most profound drug experiences ive ever had, I'm not very experienced with k and had never k holed before today and im totally blown away by how amazing it was. It was like lucid dreaming and intensely euphoric on a level deeper than ive experienced on acid, mescaline and even mdma and heroin. I had sensations, thoughts and feelings about things that seemed to be buried deep in my unconscious, things I haven't thought about for 20 years and experiences that I probably haven't thought about since the time that they actually happened. One crazy thing was I even seemed to have the same function and processes of mind that i had as a kid, it was literally like travelling back in time and reliving past events in my life. I never dreamed of k holing being anything like that.
Sorry that was off topic but I've been home alone all day and needed to tell someone!
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tentram
Ex-Bluelighter
did you take them in combination or separately?
i've had dreaming bliss from a buccal fentanyl and mdma mix - something i haven't been able to replicate since. i hadn't had any e for well over a year and scored an absolute banger; actually two different types that day.
otherwise i've only ever used heroin with benzos and mdpv.
catching fish
Bluelighter
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I think I am one of the few people who find opiates really stimulating. Obviously with a high enough dose I'll be nodding out and what not but when I am on a moderate dose I really like calling friends and talking to people, sort of like I would while on pills or speed. Maybe it is because I am quite an introverted person and I also suffer from depression and probably a truckload of other mental illnesses, that when I get the great feeling from opiates I feel the need to spread some love to people I am sad to say I would normally neglect (or at least not show enough love that they deserve).
junkie skumbag
Bluelighter
i've done MDMA and smack at a doof,i had the mdma n was feelin awsome until i smoked a bunch of cones then the anxitey kicked in so thought fuck it i'll take a line of smack to help out with the anxitey.big mistake!after that first line i spent most the remainder of the night in the car snorting smack n oxy.i was very vvery verrry fucked when i hoped out of the car i had atleast 3-4 people run up to me n ask if i was ok.on the outside i looked anything but ok but on the inside i was feelin dannndy.
tried hydromorph the other day push down on the plunger and a fuuuck its like gettin hit by a double decker opiate bus!
i tried ketamine while WD from smack and must say it helped out quite alot
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