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SLR Social vs. Hello Nurse

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Rangrz: the funny thing is the fact I would have done the same thing. I have a decent knowledge of anatomy, physiology, and biology to recognise the differences of male and female skeletal structure. Can also determine ethnicity of the people as well depending on clarity of the image to a certain degree. No, I don't feel you're in the wrong. If said person was going to selfharm they would have found another reason to do so. He's not gonna he like "o shiz rangrz hirt my feelingz I go cutz nao!" He would just cut because he wants to.
 
I wasn't butthurt at all. As a scientist myself, I see no problem in saying "I can tell this, this and that from the radiograph, including the biological sex of the people shown." In fact I specifically told rangrz to post that, including the part about noticing the male had a dental implant. I am not anti-science, I'm in university for life sci FFS. The umbrage I took was with the manner in which he wanted to present these facts, which was as a response to the "whiny butthurt trans people on tumblr who can't seem to accept the OBJECTIVE REALITY of these SCIENTIFIC FACTS that if you're born a biological boy, SOMEONE will be able to tell, and wishing that they couldn't doesn't make it the case."

I think it would be fine to bring up this point to a friend in private, or even private message on tumblr to the person who's point you want to rebut, mind you perhaps not phrase it as harshly. I do agree that people *should* accept empirical reality and should have facts presented to them when they are in the wrong. However I don't think it's fine to post about it on tumblr in a condescending manner which may cause extreme cognitive dissonance to a person who so strongly identifies as gender-sex dysmorphic. To essentially throw it in their face that despite how much they wish it weren't the case, they will never be 'fully' the sex they feel they are.

I used the example of posting up on a school bulletin board after learning in science class that cerebral palsy can't be cured, that the objective facts state that anyone with cerebral palsy will never be able to walk despite how much they wish they could and they ought to just FACE FACTS.
I am by no means disagreeing with the facts, I am disagreeing with throwing this information out in a public forum for no other NECESSARY reason other than to troll a group of people who are experiencing negative emotions and 'whining' about it on their blogs.

I know how common self-harm is in the tumblr community based on how many posts come up on my dashboard about it. I also know how common self harm is in the trans community because of the constant cognitive dissonance (sometimes mistakenly called butthurt) that abounds amongst gender-sex dysmorphic people. I did not ask rangrz to not make the post. I asked him to edit it in a way that would present the facts (that he can distinguish the biological sex of the person by bone structure etc, and the presence of a dental implant) without making the comment about how people who feel uncomfortable with those facts must/ought to suck it the fuck up and stop whining.

I am a troll myself, but I don't troll malevolently.
On the off chance that someone saw that post and DID hurt themselves, I don't feel it's worth the minor educational benefit that would come along with this bully post, nor do I think it's worth whatever smug satisfaction it will provide to rangrz by 'pwning' the whiny trannies.

We have been fighting about this since last night.
He said he felt like he didn't love me any more because I was trying to censor his right to free expression.
All I was trying to do was let him know that the way he worded his original post had the potential to hurt people's feelings, and that if he posted it like that I would unfollow his blog. I don't wish to be associated with that kind of trolling.

I have an entire conversation that took place last night that I can post to clarify both our positions on this issue.

Serotonin: I know that people who are going to cut are going to cut regardless, but I can't see how posting something that would even slightly increase the chances of that happening is completely absolved of responsibility. I even suggested he put a trigger warning like how people usually do on tumblr when addressing issues such as eating disorders, rape and abuse.

Once again, not anti-science or anti-intellectual honesty (if someone is saying that you can't tell the difference on the radiograph by all means correct them)
but I *am* anti-mean. and if you can post the facts in a way that's guaranteed not to be mean, why bother being an asshole? It's just not worth it IMO.
 
Maybe its just masculine mentality. I sometimes like to be a dick when correcting people. Its a sense of satisfaction of pretty much saying and proving that "I am better than you" I will refrain from taking sides in this issue. Sero flies the Swiss flag in this.
 
I agree with sero.

As for Lysis's reply...that is pretty much what I am doing. I'm just going to not post it, to minimize the amount of drama in my life.

Akautonomics: By asking me to edit my post, you are still asking me redact my original work on the subject, not because it was factually incorrect (a valid reason to redact something), not because it was plagiarism (A valid reason too, but I made no claims the data presented was my original research because it was not) not because I did have the right to post it in the sense of not having the consent of the other authors (valid reason, but I had no other authors who release I needed to obtain.) but simply because some people (including yourself) did not like what I had to say, and did not like the factual statements about the IMPLICATIONS of the facts being presented. Implications of scientific fact or theories are just as important as the facts themselves. General Relativity's implications about the invariance of the speed of light in all reference frames is ESSENTIAL things like GPS and RADAR and laser measurement devices. Similarly, implications of quantum electrodynamics are critical to semi-conductor design and atomic clocks. The implications of the fact one can determine sex from unchangeable anatomical findings is essential to fields like forensic pathology, those same implications also show that a transsexual person will always be able to be identified based on those findings.

If that causes them cognitive dissonance, well, I'm really sorry but I am going to say "get the fuck over it" I'm sure implications of general relativity cause severe cognitive dissonance for Young Earth Creationists (re: star light problem) as do implications of The Standard Model of Particle Physics (re: radiometric dating of the age of the Earth) Geology and Geophysics (The ability to date the Earth by the changes in the Magnetic poles of the Earth having effects on crystals in rocks that can be dated) and yes, even (perhaps most of all) Life Sci/biology/medicine. (Phylogenetics showing common descent, the ability to actually WATCH evolution take place in microbes in the lab, the ability to insert human genes into bacteria and have them express the proteins just like a human would, reinforcing the idea of common descent via demonstrating that the genetic code is the same across all life.)

Yet, you have no problem with me digging into people who hold those kind of beliefs, even though religious beliefs are often as deeply held as anything can be. You have no problem objectifying and trivializing the experience of soldiers (like myself) and making them into sexualized objects, despite how horrifically traumatic it is to actually be in combat. Check *your* privilege, you middle class, Western world living person who's never had to worry if each step they took would trigger an IED and maim or kill them. Double check it when you ask someone who fought for the freedom of expression to not use that freedom.
Triple check it when that person self identifies as "queer" and is making a criticism of the LGBTQ community, and when they've fought, like *fought* -guns, bombs and alls- to try to end the oppression of women and LGBTQ people in one of the most repressed countries on Earth, while all you've done is whine about someone's post on tumblr being "mean".

Pagey: Care to elaborate why you agree?
 
addition: The purpose of my original idea was not as mean as y'all think. I wanted to make a point, and maybe it was not the best way to make it, but I think my point needed to be harshly made none the less- That no matter what, there are things about you and your body which just are. Things that can't be changed, things which some people with the correct education will be able tell (and there a lot of people who can tell) one's biological sex by. I wanted to essentially make the point that you can't change these things, but you know what? Stop worrying about them, for exactly that reason, that they can't be changed. Instead, just just own it and live in the manner you want to live, have fun, and do what you enjoy doing. But don't fret over those things that you can't change. They kind of don't really matter anyway. Who, in daily life, gives a flying fuck about the density of their skull and how that affects high energy photon scattering? Why should that prevent you from being who are you and living the life you want to live? That was really my major point with post that I wanted to make, yet I have received so much hate, anger and hurt for trying to make that point. From the person that I thought would of all people in the world, most accept me for being who I am (including my propensity towards being kind of blunt.) and who would must understand me and what I was trying to do. Now, I feel inhibited from both pointing out factual things to people, and from even trying to use those things to tell people to stop worrying about the little details and focus on living how they want, doing what they want to do, and loving who they choose to love.

It hurts, and I'm really saddened by it.
 
Well it's just that this is obviously something that means a lot to whoever posted it and it's obviously something they have to struggle with on a day-to-day basis - it's fine if you want to nicely point out that well, you can actually tell one's male and one's female, but why shove it in their faces when that clearly isn't really the point anyway? I just think it would be unnecessarily mean and hurtful. Why would you take pleasure in saying something that would probably remind them of why such a huge part of society thinks what they do is 'wrong'? As I said, I think it's fine if you point it out in a cool/joking manner, but it's more the message underneath that matters.

Edit: just read your latest post. It's absolutely fine if you put it that way I think and I totally agree with you. Was just very unclear from your first post :)
 
^^ Your last post (and the way you phrased it) is reasonable and acceptable. Your previous posts, however, make you seem like an intellectual jackass, really wanting to make his point over something that has nothing to do with cleverness or scientific facts.

Just pointing out how your situation is perceived or can be perceived by others (incl. akautonomics). There is probably some miscommunication going on, so stop posting on the internet and talk it through in person, it will only benifit you both. Best of luck. Pz.
 
Sometimes, rangerz it's not worth it. What's more important: proving you're right or just making Ms.G happy? Gotta weigh the end results.
 
He's changed his story A LOT since what he originally was going to post. We have been arguing about this for about... 5 or 6 hours now total, and I think some of what I said sort of changed his mind. Like what serotonin suspected I think it might have been about the smug satisfaction of being right/correct/better than whoever he was trying to refute.

I think he realized how much of an asshole he was being and is now trying to say that his original intention wasn't as bad as I made it out to seem.
Rangrz, if I have your permission, I'll post the conversation from last night, just to outline our respective positions on the original post.

Also I don't appreciate the personal attacks. The reason, the ONLY reason I asked you to edit your post is because I thought it could be hurtful. You were under no obligation to edit it and so what if I unfollow your blog? You take the risk of losing followers every time you post something controversial. If you truly believe what you have to say was constructive, then you'll post it whether I unfollow you or not.

I don't want to fight with you either, but this whole situation is really stressing me out.
If you didn't want to hear my opinion on whether you should post it, you shouldn't have asked. You probably knew, or should have known based on how well you know me, that I was going to say no because it was mean.

I am convinced that there is something else going on that's bothering you, because it's not like you to defend such a retarded position against a plethora of legitimate reasons to abandon it.
(Again, not saying that the content of the post itself was retarded, just his way of going about it.)
 
rangrz said:
Blah.

Ms.G is all butthurt at me.

So, I was going to re-tumbl a picture on tumblr. It was a lateral aspect cranial projection radiograph of two people kissing. It had comments on it like "You can't tell from this if this is two boys, or two girls, or a boy and girl, or if they're trans or not" etc.

I noticed that a) one person had a dental implant. Easily recognized from the radiopacity difference of titanium vs bone. I was going to note this in my re-blog. I was also going to note that I, even without being an M.D., a D.D.S., or a physical anthropologist, could READILY distinguish that the person with the dental implant was male, and the other one was female. I was basing this on the shape of the brain-case (male brain case is more oblate, forehead is more sloping) features like the relative size of the mastoid process, the radiopacity of the bone itself (males have denser and thicker bone, so it absorbs more x-ray and is more white on the x-ray) The size of lower mandible, the size of the teeth, size and shape of the sub-orbital bones and the ocular cavities. Etc It's pretty basic stuff and you can look it up in any decent forensic pathology, radiology, or physical anthropology text book. This is a big part of how skeleton remains can be have their sex determined. I was also going to note the poster who posted the stuff about not being able to tell, that it was patently untrue it was not possible to tell, that maybe *they* could not tell, but only because they are obviously lacking the education to be able to do so. I was going to also note that like, you can call yourself whatever gender you want, use whatever pronouns you want, dress however you want, get a gender reassignment surgery, but that it will still ALWAYS be the case that one can tell from these kind of features.

Ms.G got butthurt and told me not to post it cause it might "hurt someone's feelings and cause them to self-harm or something". I think it's unlikely, and to be fucking honest, I don't really give a fuck if someone gets upset by a post on the internet stating well accepted scientific facts and their implications.

I'm not really asking SLR for advice here specifically in the context of a relationship or whatever, I'm more asking what does SLR think about the general idea? It is a dick move of me to post something like that? (I have not, cause of Ms.G) or is it a whiny and butthurt and suppression of expression to ask me not to do that on my personal blog?
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Rangrz, when Ms. G gets butt hurt about stuff like this, she secretly wants you to ravage her pussy with your cock. Fuck her, and she'll forget all about comments you made about a .jpg on tumblr. Promise.

akautonomics said:
He's changed his story A LOT since what he originally was going to post. We have been arguing about this for about... 5 or 6 hours now total, and I think some of what I said sort of changed his mind. Like what serotonin suspected I think it might have been about the smug satisfaction of being right/correct/better than whoever he was trying to refute.

I think he realized how much of an asshole he was being and is now trying to say that his original intention wasn't as bad as I made it out to seem.
Rangrz, if I have your permission, I'll post the conversation from last night, just to outline our respective positions on the original post.

Also I don't appreciate the personal attacks. The reason, the ONLY reason I asked you to edit your post is because I thought it could be hurtful. You were under no obligation to edit it and so what if I unfollow your blog? You take the risk of losing followers every time you post something controversial. If you truly believe what you have to say was constructive, then you'll post it whether I unfollow you or not.

I don't want to fight with you either, but this whole situation is really stressing me out.
If you didn't want to hear my opinion on whether you should post it, you shouldn't have asked. You probably knew, or should have known based on how well you know me, that I was going to say no because it was mean.

I am convinced that there is something else going on that's bothering you, because it's not like you to defend such a retarded position against a plethora of legitimate reasons to abandon it.
(Again, not saying that the content of the post itself was retarded, just his way of going about it.)
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Why not ask for what you really want, instead of complaining about a comment he made about a .jpg?

Also, if you are going to sit here and tell me that the comment on a .jpg honestly upset you this bad, you shouldn't be in an interpersonal relationship. Just my 2 cents.

Lysis said:
What's more important: proving you're right or just making Ms.G happy?
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Being happy is the most important thing. The more I see rangrz post, the more I can tell him being proven right is what makes him happy.

Ms. G has to do what makes her happy too, you can't expect someone else to make you happy. Definitely not how I live my life, just saying.

akautonomics said:
I wasn't butthurt at all.
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So... let it go, and think about happier things? Is it really that hard to let it go? That goes for both you and rangrz.

If I had to list all of the things I had to let go of, it would put "a comment on a .jpg on tumblr" into real perspective.
 
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Arguing for 5 or 6 hours over something as small as that ... probably not worth it. Just saying.
 
llama - I remember you were complaining about some guys being very creepy when they hit on you sometimes and I have a perfect example to back that up for you. I was walking to a bar with a friend tonight, wasn't even wearing anything special and I walk past this guy (about twice my age but eh, that's not really the problem) who starts looking me up and down and goes 'oooh very nice, can I have a piece of that? C'mon baby why don't you wanna come with me? I want a piece of that ass babe, c'mon" and started following us, it was SOOO creepy. He followed us over a good 100m sayign that sort of thing before my friend turned around and told him to leave us alone, and he did thank god. Blah. :!
I'm usually flattered when I get hit on but that, just no. I would've freaked out if I'd been alone.
 
29 days until fun in Phoenix. I seriously need a hobby besides BL to pass time. Warcraft only keeps my attention for like an hour.
 
Pagey said:
llama - I remember you were complaining about some guys being very creepy when they hit on you sometimes and I have a perfect example to back that up for you. I was walking to a bar with a friend tonight, wasn't even wearing anything special and I walk past this guy (about twice my age but eh, that's not really the problem) who starts looking me up and down and goes 'oooh very nice, can I have a piece of that? C'mon baby why don't you wanna come with me? I want a piece of that ass babe, c'mon" and started following us, it was SOOO creepy. He followed us over a good 100m sayign that sort of thing before my friend turned around and told him to leave us alone, and he did thank god. Blah. :!
I'm usually flattered when I get hit on but that, just no. I would've freaked out if I'd been alone.
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ugh, creepers. Creepers sucks. I had a guy one time grab my ass at a bar and it was totally unprovoked. I was with my friends, so I wasn't paying any attention to anyone else in the bar. Well, even with the shit I talk around here, if you know me in real life, that shit just does not fly with me. I don't like to be touched, groped or any kind of sexual contact if I'm not into you and I'm really guarded and standoffish if I'm not too sure about you, but this guy saw me hanging out with friends and I guess he thought it was ok. Well, my male friend fucking snapped when he saw me look at this guy like "WTF??????" Oh, that night did not end well. It ended with cops and my friend in the cop car and me giving a statement. Not good. Creepers fucking suck.
 
Oh wow shit :( but yeah that's happened to me before as well, just guys grabbing me randomly...I don't get it, how can you think that's okay? Ugh.

And regarding the hobby, only like 2 weeks until the new Starcraft version, get excited Lysis =D
 
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