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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

sleeping problem. rx help

sunlightatnight

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
8
I wasn't sure where to post this. I have tried alot of hypnotics. I have a bad sleeping problem. Right now besides the k-pins and valium I get halcion to sleep.. and it really doesn't work unless I take like 5mg. This problem has always been with, large doses of benzos don't make me fall asleep. My mind starts racing and i just become stupid, slurring my speech, walking into walls, starting fights, etc... I was perscribed 11mgs of xananx at one point in my life with an array of other drugs. I haven't tried many barbituates. Does anyone have any opinions on secobarbital of zyrem. Does anyone know of any hypnotics that do work. I haven't ever tried chloral hydrate, I dont want to. I am at a point where I can't afford to abuse medications by being a guinea pig and I am tired of being my own personal doctor. I have a sympathetic gi cns disorder probably induced by rebound hypertension so this is kind of a catch 22 looking for help from medications when they caused the problem. If anyone can has any advice it is very welcome and needed. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Again to the moderators I hope I didnt post anything i shouldn't have. I am sorry... the wording seems to put things in a grey area and I do not wish to cause any trouble. I thank you for all yout help. It is greatly appreciated.
 
It will be hard to find a doctor to prescribe Seconal (Secobarbitol) as it's a very dangerous drug. You redose because it's not working, then it works, and then you never wake up again. IIRC Xyrem is gamma-hydroxybutyric acid and is only indicated for narcolepsy, but that doesn't mean that a doctor won't prescribe it off-label. There was a smack whore (an admitted one) in a rehab I went to (when I thought I was going for psych problems; didn't read between the lines of "Behavioral Pain Management" and ended up on a Suboxone program) said she had a doctor prescribing her the max dose of zyrem, but I don't know how much truth there was to that. A lot of times, junkies like to talk big in rehab so they don't look like a bitch....

edit: Xyrem is the Na (Sodium salt) of gamma-hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) and is sold under the trade name Sodium oxybate.
 
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It's very improbable that you can get either secobarbital or GHB (xyrem) for insomnia. You may want to give this a read through. Many good recommendations for insomnia in that thread.
 
sorry brother, but your tolerance to pills and abuse of pills for the past some years means that pills will never "truly work" for you. it is time to try alternatives before swallowing and more tablets and capsules. seriously investigate your diet and exercise 3-4 times a week for atleast 15-20mins. try CBT. try therapy, there is so much out there besides drugs man. the drugs are like a band-aid, they temporarily cover up the symptoms; however there is a false bottom my friend! more pills leads to more pills i can tell you that!

i empathize with you because i go through similar PTSD/anxiety/social anxiety or whatever you what to call it, i have anxiety and it sometimes it is extremely difficult to hit the "off" button for my brain when i am trying to sleep. pills work for only so long, then they stop working if you take them daily, and you end up worse than you started! hah! life is a bitch, and then we all die!

also, sleeping for 8hrs of the time is a 20th century thing, people in the past used to sleep for 3-4 hrs, wake up for 1-3hrs, then sleep for another 3-4hrs. people started sleeping for 8hrs and doing the "9am-5pm" gig after the industrial revolution took off. when you cant sleep, dont stay in your bed! get up and do something, and realize that YOU are the one who causes the anxiety when you dont sleep. shit people in the army and tweakers go days without shut-eye and still function. i had to get a routine 30mins before bed, exercise frequently, and eat healthy. before bed, i go to the bathroom, brush teeth, take out contacts, and then i did some light yoga/stretching and meditation. does have to be anything fancy, i like bridge position the best. lay with your back on the ground, face up, arms fully extended and palm down to the floor. then with your legs/core push up so that your knees make somewhat of a 90degree angle to look somewhat like this picture -------- ( o_--/\_ ). then just do normal streching for a 10-15mins. put your cellphone on silent or turn it off, and dont turn on any tv. try eating a snack packed with tryptophan (cheese, turkey, milk, ect...) and some fiber 60-90mins before you go to bed so that the meal will keep you full so you dont wake up from hunger pangs.

the brightness of your house lights, and the lighting outside (night and day) regulates your melatonin production. at night, when lights start to dim, the moon comes out, and the sky is black, your body secretes natural melatonin triggering sleepiness and somnolence. this means that before bed make sure to keep the lights on low and dimmed, this means lighting from TV, phones, computers aswell as these synthetic light sources affect your circadian rhythm (decrease melatonin production)


have you ever tried gabapetin and/or pregabalin? they work really well for sleep and anxiety, ESPECIALLY when combined with a benzo. in addtion, have you given thought any holistic therapies for sleep in addition to your benzos for sleep? Organic (as in not man-made) compounds interact and affect (in a positive way) on both a molecular and cellular level altering cellular structure and DNA (like vitamins and antioxidants in broccoli, green tea, coffee, ect..) as well interacting with CNS neurotransmitters like synthetic/semi-synthetic drugs (i.e. oxycodone, benzos, tramadol, methadone, LSD, ect.... ) i think of it like how a car needs motor oil to work properly, and gas to have energy to use.

now why the fuck do you care about using holistic plants for anxiety or sleep? well, they (coffee/tea, magic shrooms, kratom, kava kava, ect..) get you high (a plus), and similar to how "an apple a day keeps the doctor away," amd why your mother used to tell you to eat vegetables. in other words, they keep you healthy and happy; you get your cake and eat it too! some great herbs : marijuana, valerian, marijuana, blue lotus, skull caps, chamomile, marijuana, passion flower, peppermint, ect.... oh yah...and did i mention marijuana??
 
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sorry brother, but your tolerance to pills and abuse of pills for the past some years means that pills will never "truly work" for you. it is time to try alternatives before swallowing and more tablets and capsules. seriously investigate your diet and exercise 3-4 times a week for atleast 15-20mins. try CBT. try therapy, there is so much out there besides drugs man. the drugs are like a band-aid, they temporarily cover up the symptoms; however there is a false bottom my friend! more pills leads to more pills i can tell you that!

I'm compelled to chime in here, because I believe you've made some absolutist statements that aren't factual, and ignore the subjectiveness of this pathology.

Definitely increase your activity (exercise) if sedentary, try not to eat too late past sundown and ensure adequate nutrition is obtained, and get plenty of UV exposure from the sun - I do these things fervently. CBT is hit and miss. For me it did nothing at all. I hear for others it works.

Sometimes though, medication is an answer - it provides a solution and if resulting in an improvement in quality of life it should not be so summarily dismissed.

i empathize with you because i go through similar PTSD/anxiety/social anxiety or whatever you what to call it, i have anxiety and it sometimes it is extremely difficult to hit the "off" button for my brain when i am trying to sleep. pills work for only so long, then they stop working if you take them daily, and you end up worse than you started! hah! life is a bitch, and then we all die!

I don't agree with this at all. Use and abuse lead down different paths, and alternating medication mitigates reduced efficacy resulting from adaptation.

also, sleeping for 8hrs of the time is a 20th century thing, people in the past used to sleep for 3-4 hrs, wake up for 1-3hrs, then sleep for another 3-4hrs. people started sleeping for 8hrs and doing the "9am-5pm" gig after the industrial revolution took off.

This is just blatantly false. Sleeping for 8 hours is actually suboptimal as it is not enough sleep from an evolutionary perspective extending well beyond the industrial revolution. Ten plus hours of sleep per day (usually in one large portion) is far more accurate of our ancestral behaviour than your intermittent sleeping pattern suggestion.

when you cant sleep, dont stay in your bed! get up and do something, and realize that YOU are the one who causes the anxiety when you dont sleep. shit people in the army and tweakers go days without shut-eye and still function. i had to get a routine 30mins before bed, exercise frequently, and eat healthy. before bed, i go to the bathroom, brush teeth, take out contacts, and then i did some light yoga/stretching and meditation. does have to be anything fancy, i like bridge position the best. lay with your back on the ground, face up, arms fully extended and palm down to the floor. then with your legs/core push up so that your knees make somewhat of a 90degree angle to look somewhat like this picture -------- ( o_--/\_ ). then just do normal streching for a 10-15mins. put your cellphone on silent or turn it off, and dont turn on any tv. try eating a snack packed with tryptophan (cheese, turkey, milk, ect...) and some fiber 60-90mins before you go to bed so that the meal will keep you full so you dont wake up from hunger pangs.

There are too many of your opinions and statements to address individually. Suffice to say that how military personnel and tweakers function with little sleep is not comparable to those who are not the aforementioned. Notwithstanding the fact that it is suboptimal functionality, and deleterious it is not a solution or worthy advice to an insomniac.

And whilst technically it is you who causes the anxiety, it is not your volition that keeps you awake, and therein lies the pathology (neural abnormalities) which requires treatment.

the brightness of your house lights, and the lighting outside (night and day) regulates your melatonin production. at night, when lights start to dim, the moon comes out, and the sky is black, your body secretes natural melatonin triggering sleepiness and somnolence. this means that before bed make sure to keep the lights on low and dimmed, this means lighting from TV, phones, computers aswell as these synthetic light sources affect your circadian rhythm (decrease melatonin production)

Our circadian rhythm is affected by UV exposure timing, prandial phasing, and excitatory stimuli (most specifically activity). This means get plenty of sun exposure during daylight. Reduce or eliminate eating within ~2-4 hours of sundown, and reduce/eliminate activity <2-4 hours pre-bedtime. Removing lights and electrical components from your bedroom is advisable, but the former more than the latter.

have you ever tried gabapetin and/or pregabalin? they work really well for sleep and anxiety, ESPECIALLY when combined with a benzo. in addtion, have you given thought any holistic therapies for sleep in addition to your benzos for sleep? Organic (as in not man-made) compounds interact and affect (in a positive way) on both a molecular and cellular level altering cellular structure and DNA (like vitamins and antioxidants in broccoli, green tea, coffee, ect..) as well interacting with CNS neurotransmitters like synthetic/semi-synthetic drugs (i.e. oxycodone, benzos, tramadol, methadone, LSD, ect.... ) i think of it like how a car needs motor oil to work properly, and gas to have energy to use.

now why the fuck do you care about using holistic plants for anxiety or sleep? well, they (coffee/tea, magic shrooms, kratom, kava kava, ect..) get you high (a plus), and similar to how "an apple a day keeps the doctor away," amd why your mother used to tell you to eat vegetables. in other words, they keep you healthy and happy; you get your cake and eat it too! some great herbs : marijuana, valerian, marijuana, blue lotus, skull caps, chamomile, marijuana, passion flower, peppermint, ect.... oh yah...and did i mention marijuana??

I would suggest continued therapeutic consults. Anecdotally I've found natural remedies ineffective (except marijuana, which I don't advise using to treat your condition), but the main point of my contribution to this thread is that for some perpetual medication is a solution.
 
I am sorry if you already have told us this, but WHY can't you sleep?

- Can't you get your body to calm down psysically?
- Or is it your thoughts that just keep to upset/disturb you?

I have fought with insomnia many years myself. Both because of depression/anxiety where my thought wouldn't let me get peace but also because of restless leg syndrome. Drugs is an okay aid - but only for a very short amount of time. If you use them too long, they will make your insomnia a thousand times worse.

I dont know what the things are called in english but get those things that covers your eyes, so you can't see any light. And get some ear plugs. Total darkness and total silence.

To get rid of my thought I started listening to audio books when trying to fall asleep. You will be able to listen to them in the dark with your eyes closed. This helped me a lot both getting rid of my thought but also getting control of my restless leg syndrome. It was as if I was concentrated on something else, I forgot my legs.

One time I really had problems sleeping (I had been awake 48 hours) I helped my uncle pour concrete (don't know if this is the right words) the entire next day in a huge building. It is very physical hard work doing this. I actually shoveled cement in 13 hours. So I was starting to get close to three days without sleep and started to hallucinate and I felt drunk and couldn't remember things that happened 10 minutes ago, but when I came home and got in bed i slept like a rock. Try to keep awake an entire night and then see if you can sleep the next night. You probably know this, but it is very important that you go to bed at the same time and raise at the same time each day. After a while of this your body will get used to starting to get tired around that time. Exercise is important for your sleep and it is important that you challenge your intellect too so you are not only physical exhausted.

I have used benzo, GHB and so on to sleep on as many others in here. But one shouldn't do this to often as everybody know.

Alternatives are Valeriana (which is legal - at least in DK) and it actually works for me. Another thing you could try is special sorts of weed. Some strains will make you alot more tired than other sorts will. Skywalker OG should be one of these strains that really will knock you out. In general everything with Kush in it should make you tired. But now again - we are using drugs. The best solution would of cause be to learn to sleet without aids.

But try the thing I said about going to bed and going up at the same time each day. Plus/minus an hour, but not more. And then use audio books when you lay down and turn of the lights. This will take care of your thoughts.

I hope you can use this for something. Insomnia is one of the worst things I have ever experienced.
 
I can't sleep because I have racing thoughts. I get maybe 5 hrs usually of good sleep. That might be fine for some but I get sick. Lately I have been tAking mid day naps if I can fall asleep. I just try to relax if anything. May I ask what is cbt? I do get alot of exercise. In oct. 2009 I was 265. By oct. 2010 I was 160. I had something major happen in my life so I started exercising. Non-related events. 3 years later. I still exercise. I see a nutritionist, I have a gi, my pcp, and my psychiatrist, who is also sorta my pyschologist to which is bad. I want to try this 5-htp. I have found it but does anyone know of any reputable name brands? I dont see my nutritionist for a while and that would be something I usually would ask him. On the note of drugs not working for me cause I have taken so many, yes and know... its a 50/50; to start off xanax never worked for me the first 4/5times I took it. I took the 3mg triangle extended release that I was gettting prescribed. Then I took the regular 2mg (bars). Eventually it did work but that is not my deal as it reacts badly to me. I have had this experience with most substances. To answer another question, i was prescribed gabapentin for a while. I was pretty sure I had to start taking cogentin with that becuase of some bad side effects. I have been prescribed alot of things. I appreciate all the help everyone is providing me, I really do appreaciate the time everyone has spent reading my post and the time you have taken with answering my statement/question. Sorry for the belated reply. I have a daughter and my time to get online is very eclectic, again I really appreciate the help.
 
Right away I'm thinking you may have bi-polar. You may want to bring this up with your psychiatrist.

Have you heard of Doxepin?
 
I take depakote. This is one of the most annoying medicines in the world. My tolerance to this medicine builds so quick. I take it only to correlate my words better; and sometimes it helps with my flotation of mind. Never heard of doxepin, but I looked it up, and I don't take anti-depressants anymore... it's a long story.
 
Hmmm yeah. Ok well some ADs work very well for sleep. As I said in another thread, sleep is of utmost importance.

To be honest anti-psychotics work better for the "inner" symptoms of bi-polar while drugs like depakote mostly just give you a semblance of normalcy.
 
As for anti-psychotics... I do enjoy seroquel. At any dose I will have a hangover the next day. I have taken alot of anti-psychotics and nothing else has worked. Ho-Chi-Minh, is there anything you have seen with a high success rate in the anti-psychotics field to correlate along well with the depakote? Any advice would be most helpful. Thank you
P.S. I only know of cbt as cognitive behavorial therapy. Was that what was being reffered to in the earlier posts?
 
Mood stabilizers and anti-psychotics are routinely prescribed together. Results tend to vary a lot, but I've personally heard Olanzapine (marginal GABA activity and lots of success stories), Aripiprazole (complimentary antidepressant effects and very few side effects), and Risperidone (perhaps the least side effects save for maybe Aripirazole and is very stabilizing) to work quite well. I've had personal experience with the latter two and have found them both to work, but I prefer Aripiprazole personally because it doesn't seem to dumb me down so much and I'm frankly very depressed, which anti-psychotics are known for not helping and oftentimes inducing.

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy essentially teaches you habits and modes of thinking that would be appropriate in improving your livelihood. I would definitely try it, as being on the smallest amount of drugs possible is ideal.

Melatonin is the most safe sleep aid out there; a highish dose will probably knock you out at least the first couple times. Cheers.
 
When you say you've tried many hypnotics does that include the Z-drugs? Zopiclone or Zolpidem (Ambien) They most definetly work, but can be just as addictive as benzos, but I found benzos useless for sleep, including Halcion (triazolam). The best thing for insomnia is to exercise well, don't eat late at night, don't watch TV or any computer screen for a couple hours before sleep and if you like reading, read a book just before bed. Do all that and you will fall asleep eventually. But it depends if you have trouble falling asleep or trouble staying asleep, if its the latter is a lot harder to say how to help, as most tips are based on helping people fall asleep.
 
I'm compelled to chime in here, because I believe you've made some absolutist statements that aren't factual, and ignore the subjectiveness of this pathology.

Definitely increase your activity (exercise) if sedentary, try not to eat too late past sundown and ensure adequate nutrition is obtained, and get plenty of UV exposure from the sun - I do these things fervently. CBT is hit and miss. For me it did nothing at all. I hear for others it works.

Sometimes though, medication is an ah sleep from an evolutionary perspective extending well beyo


this isnt your thread. if you dont have anything productive or nice to say, then do NOT say anything at all!!
 
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