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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Sky News; PLANS FOR LEGAL ECSTASY TESTING AT A DANCE PARTY

^ well I don't think it's paid off, but it's still a step in the right direction for this....


I was recently in the Netherlands and I was amazed at the testing that went on there at various events, almost every second shop I visited sold testers of some kind and most people I met tested their drugs before consumption.


Hopefully one day that's what it will be like here, too.


thanks Enlighten.
 
After speaking with drplatypus and confirming that Earthcore was fully aware that their event was to be named in the media my fears have been allayed. Earthcore had welcomed and publicly backed the project, so Enlighten will be at Earthcore as planned, with no change to the capacity of the work we will be doing.
 
^thats great news CM
When I saw the news article in the Herald Sun today I was over the moon. I throught that finally we have a change of pace in this counrty and that health issues and politics might have diverged from one another.
Unfortunately judged by the reports above, this project has been squashed by the AMA. This is so fucking unfair. There was finally a chance to do something that could potentially save a few lives and at the very least turn people towards a more harm iminimalisation way of using ecstacy, but of course politics had to rear its ugly right winged head.
I mean fuck, the people at earthcore will be taking the pills and I doubt anyone of them is going to be encouraged to start taking pills or take stupid amounts of pills just because the testing of pills will be legally approved.
Rant over.
 
Ahh, my dear sweet Padwan, psy_taco... Do you think that the mumbled off-the-cuff remarks by some spokesperson from the AMA are likely to dissuade us? You underestimate the resolve of this research group. There is no reference to research in their statement, and it is one of opinion alone, which has no place in this debate. Sure, it's irritating, but be aware that it is made on a background of hardcore negotiations with Tony Abbot on doctors working conditions- the best we could have hoped for is a 'no comment'. That will be their last freebie, however... All other unsupported statements will be widely satirized in the popular and medical press.
The important issue here is to keep the issue public, so that opponents can't ignore difficult questions, but are forced to answer them. I see some of these negative responses as inevitable, and a sign of nervousness. I cut my teeth in Student Union politics in London and Dublin, where politicians are far cleverer, and far far more savage. Stay happy and committed, and strap in tight- we're all in for a VERY interesting year!!!=D
 
I can't get over the excitment behind all this. There must be some people high up that are feeling like their balls are in a vice and losing a lot of sleep over this issue as they see it blowing up in their faces.
You can't fight refferenced studies with your personal 'beliefs' and what grandma and angry step-dad want to hear in the newspapers...
 
I couldn't have written that better, mate. We've found a raw nerve, and now we drill...=D
 
Enlighten
Dr. David Calidicott
Dr. Cameron Duff

You guys rock my world
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You can't fight refferenced studies with your personal 'beliefs' and what grandma and angry step-dad want to hear in the newspapers...

I worry that 'they' do do exactly that, all the time.

I pretty much take it as read that they are against Pill testing either for ideological reasons (which they will never admit) or because it is politically expedient for them to be. Still, they seem to have two lines of argument:

"Pill testing is bad because the tests are inaccurate and misleading"

and

"Pill testing is bad because it encourages risk-taking behaviour".

What are the counter-arguments? What should we say?
 
aesops said:
"Pill testing is bad because the tests are inaccurate and misleading"
Enlighten is pushing for reagent testing to be accompanied by GCMS testing. We acknowledge there are limitations with using reagents, and that is why we need government support to be able to implement laboratory testing.

aesops said:
"Pill testing is bad because it encourages risk-taking behaviour".
There will always be people taking illicit drugs, by providing the person with an indication or a GCMS result of what their pill contains it gives them more information so they can make an informed decision if they wish to take the pill. It is the fundamental divide between people that follow the Howard zero-tolerance view, and those who believe in harm reduction.
 
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Very good Aesops. Your brief assessment is prety much it. To address these points individually

1) "Pill testing is bad because the tests are inaccurate and misleading"

I think hat this is the hardest one of the 2 to counter. Our work in SA shows that it CAN be inaccurate and misleading.
Our arguments are:
We openly acknowledge the deficiencies in colorimetric pilltesting as it stands. But we argue that it is important that we emphasize this with people when we do the pill testing, and educate them about the strengths and weaknesses of the system.
In the absence of pill testing, people are using pills anyway- this is quite clear. The rate of pill use is in fact increasing. Is it not better that they get some idea what is in their pill than taking them blind?
The whole point of our involvement in the pill testing process is to address the technical shortcomings of simple colorimetric tests. GCMS may not be immediate, but it does tell us what is out there

2) "Pill testing is bad because it encourages risk-taking behaviour".

The Commonwealths Department of Health and Agings own Monograph,
' The prevention of Substance use, Risk and Harm in Australia- A Review of the Evidence" published in May this year states (I think on page 235) that

" An argument often advanced against the provision of timely pill testing data to users is that it gives the impression of safety to the consumption of MDMA, which it is held may lead to increased consumption. There is no evidence to either support or refute this statement."
"There is no evidence available allowing comment on the impact of availability of testing kits on consumption levels"
"There is a need for more research and evaluation studies on the entire range of effects of on-site pill testing interventions"

By their own words...

Finally, Dirk Korf, in Europe, has shown that people who test their pills more regularly use fewer pills.

Say goodnight, Major Watters!
=D =D =D
 
Firstly, along with others in this thread I'd like to extend my congratulations and warmest thanks to those involved in pushing this proposal.

Secondly, whenever I'm involved in a debate, I find it useful to phrase the point I'm trying to get across in the form of an analogy.

Consider the role of seat belts in driving.

Seat belts were installed in cars in the 70's to reduce the number of fatalities from road accidents, which they did.

Arguing that testing pills is a bad idea because it will give people a false sense of confidence and encourage risk taking behaviour is like saying the wearing and installation of seat belts should never have happened because it encourages people to speed and can give them a false sense of security when behind the wheel.

Also, by arguing that pill testing is not worthwhile because the results can be leading or inaccurate is similar to saying that because there are still fatalities on the road, that because people still die on the roads, the introduction of seat belts has been a total failure.

There are plenty of other analogies out there in society if you give it some thought.
 
And does Ecstasy really need our encouragement? It seems to have done very well for itself before pilltesting ever reared it's head in Australia. At least 1 in 5 Australian's between 20 and 30 have used Ecstasy and you can guarentee that the vast majority had never heard of pilltesting before they took their first one.

EDIT; Actually the crucial part of Dirk's research in relation to the question is that of those people who were not taking ecstasy the presence of pilltesting made it less likely that they would ever start.

People like taking risks. The anti-smoking lobby is not about making smoking illegal it is about making people aware of the risks. Millions of dollars in anti-smoking ads and a complete ban on any alternate view and what have they achieved? A decrease in smoking in some demographics. But people still smoke. Even tho everyone is aware that smoking has a very high risk for a very small payoff in effect.

Why are the public then suprised when ecstasy is still used by people that know the risks? It is a simple equation; risk versus payoff. The risk of ectsasy use is small, compared to most other illegal drugs, and the payoff can be enormous.

This is why demand reduction is doomed to failure. And this is where the ideological battle rests. We are not prepared to consigned one fifth of Australia's best and brightest to the rubbish heap because of the choice they have made. We are going to do everything in our power to reduce the (already low) risk to as low as possible.

Ideological battles, unfortunately, do not play well in our current media, or rather they do play well but only for those who are prepared to simply gain high moral ground, at the expense of analysing the issues themselves. The current climate is the worst it has been in a very long time. When the pilltesting story hit the headlines this week it was fighting for room with the abortion issue. What does that tell you? "They" have a mandate now, and they are not shy about using it. This whole thing has to be treated very carefully.
 
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hoptis: that's my analogy! you bastard! ;)

it's true. ask aesops. i have bored him with my extended remix on that many times. it's my answer to the conservatives bleat "But drug taking is illegal!"

OK but so is speeding. How about we install a very simple device into every single seat belt that disconnects it the moment the car exceeds the speed limit. If you are breaking the law you don't deserve our protection. How does that sound?

That is the exact same logic that says we shouldn't do harm reduction because drugs are illegal. Try it out when someone bleats at you and you will hear all sorts of justifications. Their black and white world quickly becomes grey when it's them involved...
 
about time the govt finally starts recognising it...



they have been hitting the snooze button for far too long....
 
Well didn't things get exciting over the last few days :)

This is great to hear, things seem to be moving along in leaps and bounds lately
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The funniest part about all the NEWS over the weekend was the difference between channel 10 and JJJ who both presented the exact same info but it came out sounding totally different.

God I love those hardworking people at the JJJ news room.
 
I've been a long time reader of BL, but am a new member.
All I have to say is that you've done some really great work, guys. I know a lot of people who really appreciate it.

That seat-belt speeding analogy really got to me.
 
Drug body backs test on ecstasy
Patrick O'Neil
09 Nov 2004

A TRIAL to test ecstasy was recommended to the State Government by its peak drug advisory body in July, a member has revealed.

Professor Margaret Hamilton, of the Premier's Drug Prevention Council, backed recent efforts to get a legal amnesty for a drug testing trial.

"We have to accept young people will take drugs," she said.

"It is our moral responsibility to make sure they do themselves the least harm."

Royal Adelaide hospital research fellow Dr David Caldicott last week told the Herald Sun he had applied to Victoria Police to conduct a trial at dance party Earthcore this month.

Dr Caldicott was backed by the Australian Drug Foundation.

Ecstasy users would be able to test their pills to see if the main ingredient was MDMA -- pure ecstasy -- or other more dangerous substitutes.

Professor Hamilton suggested a more careful trial using government drug testing labs, but praised attempts to get the process started.

"I think testing is sensible so I am for it and I support any efforts to get it happening," she said.

But Howard Government chief drug adviser Major Brian Watters condemned any test as encouraging drug use.

"It is wink, wink, nod nod and you can use it," he said.

"That is not the message we want to be giving out. Ecstasy is a dangerous substance and some young people will be highly vulnerable to its effects," said Major Watters, chairman of the Australian National Council on Drugs.

But Dr Caldicott said there was no evidence drug use would increase because of the tests.

"Watters is not a doctor or a scientist," he said.

"I think we should be basing our opinions on fact and research, not a gut instinct."

Dr Caldicott said his South Australian trial showed 80 per cent of ecstasy users would do something other than take their pill if it tested positive for potentially deadly ingredients.

"My presence or absence at a rave is not going to affect whether someone turns up at a rave with a pill," he said.

"I am there to make them think twice about what they are doing," he said.

Victoria Police drug and alcohol unit manager Inspector Steve James said unless the State Government changed the law police would arrest doctors handling ecstasy tablets.

From here
 
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