Sisa - Greek "cocaine of the poor"

[Ekstasis-//7]

Firstly let me express my opinion that I think it was poor quality investigative journalism that they couldn't even get around to buying using Marquis and Mandelin (standard reagent pill test kit sold online or in shops legally) to see if it was methamphetamine (such as police in some countries use for presumitive analysis). Instead they seemed to encourage the rumours and mystery as to what Sisa was. Why not even send some in for independent lab testing? This would also show what if any dangerous additives or by-products were in there.

They bought somewhat medium sized clear kinda white crystal size chunks the journalist even commented on as appearing like methamphetamine.The introduction of RC halogen stimulants in the last few years I would doubt to be Sisa for as far as I know they don't form large crystal sizes like methaphetamine. Nothing but powder or a noduled pure white rock it you try to dissolve and rapidly dehydrate. Besides which RC's are generally more expensive to make than standard illigal drugs

During my years of listening to users in drug communities I have been disturbed by crazy stories. Usually later I found reading more information both scientific and from users made a more a more balanced truth. There are a lot of urban myths out there running rampant even by the drug users themselves. I am filled with sorrow for the Greek homeless people after seeing this video.

I did however notice that the pipes of the binging users depicted. They were frosted as per normal from smoking. I looked hard but but I couldn't see any obvious black residue inside the bottom of the pipe. This normally builds up from methamphetamine synth impurities or at the very least from the MSM cutting agent when over heated.

Now I'm not suggesting this Sisa is pure methamphetamine. Hell it could have been soaked in some nasty volatile solvent with a low boiling point (leaving no residue). I only wanted to add perspectives on what I saw.

 

[Shambles]

Not especially illuminating VICE article about a sisa dealer but what interested me was the price. Stuff was being touted as some kinda sillycheap, ultrafilth version of meth but the cost is not all that different from cocaine. How is that an ultracheap drug? The price being quoted all over the media would appear to actually be the price for a single crystal not a gramme which is what I'm guessing most presumed it to be. Seems to be not all that different in price to meth itself going by some of the US prices I've heard quoted (obviously pricier in the UK). Sounds more like oldskool "crank" as opposed to "crystal meth" - ie the rougher, less cleaned-up version of the same drug. If it really were just knocked up from household chemicals why does it cost so much in a country so poor?

 

[Mental Kenny]

It's very cheap though, before they edited the Vice article for legal reason, you could see the guy buy a wrap for six euros, inside what looked like at least a point of shards, I paid sixty dollars for a similar wrap in Melbourne and it was enough to keep me buzzing friday to sunday.

It's the price per dose that is relevant not the price by the gramme, I mean, if 100 mgs is enough to get two people twatted for the night, then six euros is a hell of a good price.

 

[Shambles]

I agree on VFM being the point when skint but was just pointing out it's actually not really all that different in price to crystal meth in parts of America. Australian drug prices are notoriously sky high so not really a fair comparison. Seems to me this sisa stuff is broadly comparable with meth in places it's sold that aren't Australasian.

 

[Mental Kenny]

I agree on VFM being the point when skint but was just pointing out it's actually not really all that different in price to crystal meth in parts of America.

West Coast of the US has crazy cheap meth, but it's really not that relevant to us in Europe.

What I mean is, I'd give my left kidney to be able to get easily at street level a point of shards for six euros, fucking hell, it's a good deal, those crystals looked proper as well. The prices they mention are wild cheap given its potency.

Hope it's better than the stuff I tried in Oz, maybe it's because I didn't have anything for a comedown while there, but I remember some painful hours of down, where even porn doesn't sort you out, just tons of jiterness. Mind the first few hours were lush

A question I have is, why is methcathinone not so available, I mean surely if it's easy to make, at the dawn of the meph ban a cook could have made a killing selling that, all around Europe there would have been huge demand.

It could have become Europe's crystal meth. Oh well chance lost

 

[Sammy G]

A question I have is, why is methcathinone not so available, I mean surely if it's easy to make, at the dawn of the meph ban a cook could have made a killing selling that, all around Europe there would have been huge demand.

It could have become Europe's crystal meth. Oh well chance lost

Methcathinone is illegal pretty much everywhere, that's why. What would be the point of replacing one illegal drug with another, far less marketable one?

 

[Mental Kenny]

Methcathinone is illegal pretty much everywhere, that's why. What would be the point of replacing one illegal drug with another, far less marketable one?

Because it's so easy and cheap to make? I mean the illegality thing is irrelevant to those supplying people with pills, speed or MDMA.

Exactly like they have labs for MDMA in heart of Europe they could have cooked large amounts of methcathinone to supply to the mephedrone orphans, I think back then it could have been easily marketeable, especially to less knowledged users, it's a cathinone afterall.

People were thirsty for that kind of thing.

 

[Shambles]

Methcathinone is fairly widespread in South Africa I think. Not sure why it's never been picked up by those producing illegals in Europe but isn't it supposed to be horribly toxic? I know most drugs are hardly health food but vaguely recall hearing that methcathinone is particularly nasty stuff. I may well be misremembering of course but is what I recall of what I've read. I've heard of the odd batch being knocked up by amateur chemists in the US but never seems to have been available on a large scale as far as I'm aware. I think it was in some of the Eastern Bloc countries but not sure if that's still the case.

 

[Sammy G]

Because it's so easy and cheap to make? I mean the illegality thing is irrelevant to those supplying people with pills, speed or MDMA.

Exactly like they have labs for MDMA in heart of Europe they could have cooked large amounts of methcathinone to supply to the mephedrone orphans, I think back then it could have been easily marketeable, especially to less knowledged users, it's a cathinone afterall.

Why would they not just produce mephedrone?

Anybody with the muscle to produce and distribute significant quanities of methcathinone (as well as market it as a meph alternative) surely has the wherewithal to knock up a batch of drone and guarantee a return on their investment?

I can understand small fry having a go, maybe, but that's about it.

 

[Vurtual]

i'm sure(ish) i remember reading that the hells angels spent a while producing quite a bit of methcathinone in america (in 80s-90s?)

 

[Shambles]

That rings a bell with me too but not sure if it's a real bell or an imagined one. I know they produced a lot of 'crank' (methamphetamine before it was rebranded as 'crystal meth') and bikers are known for their fondness for stims so wouldn't surprise me given it's supposedly a doddle to make for those who know about such things.

 

[Mental Kenny]

Why would they not just produce mephedrone?

Anybody with the muscle to produce and distribute significant quanities of methcathinone (as well as market it as a meph alternative) surely has the wherewithal to knock up a batch of drone and guarantee a return on their investment?

I can understand small fry having a go, maybe, but that's about it.

I always assumed it was easier to cook and needed easier to acquire precursors. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Mental Kenny]

That rings a bell with me too but not sure if it's a real bell or an imagined one. I know they produced a lot of 'crank' (methamphetamine before it was rebranded as 'crystal meth') and bikers are known for their fondness for stims so wouldn't surprise me given it's supposedly a doddle to make for those who know about such things.

I read in the aussie area of BL, that what they used to call bikie speed was actually 4-MAR, hard to verify though.

 

[spacejunk]

^ as an Aussie I can confirm that this isn't the case.
Much misinformation and dealer BS regarding "meth", "speed" and the more mythical 4-MAR.
The latter appears from time to time apparently - but not (to my knowledge) from outlaw motorcycle gangs. Their territory is more impure methamphetamine and poorly grown hydroponic cannabis.

Amphetamine sulphate is damn near non-existent in Australia, but that's not what shady people selling highly cut meth will tell you.
'twas discussed as recently as yesterday

If the stuff in this article is indeed methcathinone; beware - this stuff sounds scary if not synthed correctly/cleaned up properly;
http://scienceblogs.com/terrasig/2008/03/05/clandestine-methcathinone-ephe/

 

[mister]

I read in the aussie area of BL, that what they used to call bikie speed was actually 4-MAR, hard to verify though.

that's not true, 4-MAR does pop up in Australia but its fairly rare and lots of people THINK they get 4-MAR. The bikies here (im fairly sure) used to make Amphetamine Sulphate but then swapped for methamphetamine in the 90's

 

[doorknob]

Methcat is also absolutely shit. Very mild stimulant until you have too much and jittertown from then on. It's quite popular in russia where the addicts get parkinsons from IVing manganese particles left over from the brew.

 

[spacejunk]

^ yeh that's what that link I posted refers to.
Scary shit. Lets hope this is not what the Greek users are in for.

 

[doorknob]

^ yeh that's what that link I posted refers to.
Scary shit. Lets hope this is not what the Greek users are in for.

ah sorry, didn't see that- if anyne is bored enough to try it then you should be able to remove the metal with fine lab paper, hr and all. I think benzaldehyde is a byproduct which accounts for the sweet smell, probably not a good idea to consume.

 

[spacejunk]

^ thanks for adding that.
This is kind of the front line of harm reduction (not that the substance[s?] in question has even been identified).
Scary, crazy, fucked. Prohibition is a nasty motherfucker.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Australians need to sort out their slang. I thought Kenny had just mistyped biker when he wrote bikie. "I saw some bikies this avo. Bonza!" Get it sorted.