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Shyness vs alpha behaviour (why don't people reflect themselves?)

Yeah but this is related to biology. What the Hel is an omega, for example? It sounds like a group of people
 
Why do people feel the need to discuss such whatever you wanna name this? It's enough to get a job and you will become a better version of yourself, tsk tsk.. God damn, boredom. One hell of a drug
 
dopamimetic said:
Girls tend to be more shy and less noisy, more wary, but many care similarly little about others that are different. Now the shizo part, many will openly condemn the alpha* male behaviour but the more they do, the more they fall for exact the same men. And find thoightful men unattractive usually, even if they are similar. Suppressed feelings?
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Part of the problem is that both of these characteristics / archetypes are terrible reasons to choose a partner. Gregariousness is superficial, but outwardly-nerdiness is also superficial. Some people may have preferences regarding which of these aesthetics appeals to them more, but those preferences are kind of like choosing whether to have red or green salsa on your burrito and asking which is better for you.

The deeper, systemic problem is that our culture valorizes the ideal of choosing a partner based on feelings and instincts, even momentary feelings, and denigrates the idea of cautiously judging people's character based on their behavior and history. Somehow we've decided it isn't love anymore if you stop to think about it for ten seconds. This is definitely not limited to the way women choose men; it applies to everyone.

"But I feel good when I'm with ________." Who is in charge, you or the feeling?

I just struggle with that, I've internalized the concept of treat others like I want to be treated and it feels shizo how the majority of society behaves. I had very few male friends (being a guy) and most of these relations were difficult. With women too but out of different reasons. With the guys it's just that I don't like their behaviour, mindset and acting usually.
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"Philosophers often behave like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper at random and then ask the grown-up "What's that?" — It happened like this: the grown-up had drawn pictures for the child several times and said "this is a man," "this is a house," etc. And then the child makes some marks too and asks: what's this then? "

Much like Wittgenstein's philosopher, you've done something like describing a situation, but without any of the grounding in reality that makes it an actual depiction. In your interactions with ~half the global population you've discovered that you don't like their ~everything. Based on this the problem could be anything and I have no idea where to start.

(Your comments on women are even more vague.)

But regarding the whole "golden rule" bit, people -- especially awkward loners -- often interpret this the wrong way. You don't treat people the way you would like to be treated, you treat people the way they would like to be treated, and I usually throw in a little risk-aversion to the tune of "I don't really know how they want to be treated, but they were probably fine before I got here". Aggressiveness isn't the only kind of antisocial behavior. Lingering, moping, and attention-seeking can also be bad. Particularly at social gatherings: I'm not "treating" people, I'm entertaining, and so I'm trying to contribute happiness, specifically, not just kindness.
 
atara said:
(Your comments on women are even more vague.)

But regarding the whole "golden rule" bit, people -- especially awkward loners -- often interpret this the wrong way. You don't treat people the way you would like to be treated, you treat people the way they would like to be treated, and I usually throw in a little risk-aversion to the tune of "I don't really know how they want to be treated, but they were probably fine before I got here". Aggressiveness isn't the only kind of antisocial behavior. Lingering, moping, and attention-seeking can also be bad. Particularly at social gatherings: I'm not "treating" people, I'm entertaining, and so I'm trying to contribute happiness, specifically, not just kindness.
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Thanks, atara. My over-thinkin sometimes really corrupts the RAM and I get lost ... was at this point before, and I always get lost there maybe at the meeting point of logic & emotions. I need to love myself before I can love others. Need to be happy before I can contribute happiness. Need to have a sense of humor before I can make people laugh. That's simple. The how to get there not. This is exactly what I seek in drugs, what they give acutely but fail miserably on the long term as all other attempts like psychotherapy. Spent years seeing therapists and groups but it only made me feel worse and thinking, analyzing more and condemning myself more for how bad, unattractive, nerdy etc. I am. Then I took some DXM and boom, all was fine. But of course this went against me and today it's Russian roulette and I fight day for day against borderline-suicidal thoughts again.

Definitely need to get on opioids again, I can't continue this way. I'm a fucking weak person and nobody wants that, I certainly wouldn't want to deal with a clone of myself either I guess but does it help anything to know this? Probably no. So I am back to my teenage thinking about 'how to get strong'. It's definitely not true that every time you fall and get up again makes you stronger, it just makes me embittered. Some people are better off alone, I thought that about others and thought I need to be ashamed about but it's the truth. Kindness is just bullshit. Weakness. Fake empathy too, it's just me being weak.

And I am weak. Disgusting. Otherwise I'd just give a fuck about what others think, but then I could also go and make sports and become what they want, and get what I want. Point remains, weakness is a problem. To overcome this, I need to fight against myself because embracing weakness makes me even weaker - yet this way I can't love. Fuck. Thought loop.
 
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I doubt if anyone without a bullet wound in their leg would be better off "getting on opioids again". If you think you need drugs to manage your life, it is almost always better to see a psychiatrist.

But honestly when I see people on (usually) drug forums who simply can't manage the emotion fear it seems like it's because they haven't ever allowed themselves to abide with fear, to accept it as a valuable and necessary part of the mind, and to let it be there while continuing to go on.

Some of the scariest experiences of my life were on drugs. But those fears were of a different kind. It's actually very hard to find a drug that will mimic the feeling you get when you stand on a skateboard and point it downhill. If I hadn't climbed up cliffs, fought for air under a breaking wave, been chased by dogs, etc -- I don't know if I'd be able to manage mere social anxiety as well as I do today.

I can't imagine trying to face this for the first time in my thirties, but there must be something truly exciting you can do -- isn't there? Everyone should experience MDMA, sure, but everyone should experience good old-fashioned endogenous adrenaline, too.
 
I just meant it's about inner game. Once you master that you can become familiar with other people and reading their game

Game here is used like what they want. It has nothing to do with an actual game that's being played
 
When I'm high, I can see life as a game and then socialization is easy. But being high all the time doesn't work, it becomes addiction. While high, I am stronger than emotions. In sobriety, they control me.

Just realized that I am a text book borderliner ... I got that diagnosis many years ago and forgot about it because of self denial I guess.

The 9 symptoms of BPD
Fear of abandonment. People with BPD are often terrified of being abandoned or left alone. ... Check
Unstable relationships. ... Check
Unclear or shifting self-image. ... Check
Impulsive, self-destructive behaviors. ... Check
Self-harm. ... Check
Extreme emotional swings. ... Check
Chronic feelings of emptiness. ... Double check
Explosive anger. Had this, learned to avoid the triggers.
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Borderline personality is mediated by NMDA receptor dysfunction. Dissociatives are my DOC, and of course make the dysfunction worse by causing these little NMDA fuckers to grow like shrooms. Ouch.
 
madness00 said:
But as one ages, IME, i have cared less about my insecurities. In age that is
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This. As you get older (I am just passed 50) you become more focused on things and people you value more. As a younger person you are still learning what 'value' is and means. Looking at the teens and early-twenties people these days, their value seems to revolve almost entirely around their social media status for e.g. how many Likes did my last Tweet/Facebook post/Snapchat chat generate? How many more Facebook friends could I have? How many more home-made YouTube video likes/followers could I get. I find this sad. So, when you find what you value (including yourself) and bring it closer to you, so more value will be returned.

I learned a coping mechanism a very long time ago that I would like to share with you. It goes like this...

"There is no point to stress. If there is something you can do about a situation, get off your butt and go and do it, stop stressing about it. If there is nothing you can do about a situation, well then there is nothing you can do so stop stressing about it".

It's a bit lame, but I have found it works for me.

Let me leave you with this English saying, 'Empty vessels make the most noise'. Sums up everything I have ever experienced about alpha males and their insecurities :)
 
Yea I’ll admit the desire people have to constantly be on social media is depressing.

That said, it’s another way to stand apart from the pack and show your confidence. I said fuck social media (beyond drug topic forums) when I got into high school because frankly I was so busy partying and getting high I didn’t have time. And I just never caught up I guess.. I felt too “cool” for it and I guess that cocky mentality stuck.

But when someone is talking to you, and they ask for your Facebook or whatever and you tell em you don’t do social media it’s usually a shocker and turn on. “Na but I got a number though, if people want to talk they can call.”

I’ve always played the “hard to get” type and seemed to work for me. There’s something sexy about a person who just lives life in the moment and isn’t wrapped up in online personas. Instead of worrying about selfies at a show I’m too busy dancing my heart out, or climbing a mountain I’m too busy enjoy the sights. It’s ususlly after that I realize it might have made a cool pic but in the moment I’m there.

As you’ve said elsewhere in related posts, you know someone will come when you stop looking. Part of stopping looking is by just loving and appreciating each moment, anyone can spot that a mile away and it’s infectious.

I can tell your struggling right now brother and many are, just remember once Covid let’s up the world may be a different place and hopefully people begin to leave the superficial fake Facebook shit behind and learn to just be present.

Just don’t start with opiates again, if you do go for maintenance ones cuz short acting full agonists will bring nothing but more pain.

-GC
 
dopamimetic said:
Just realized that I am a text book borderliner ... I got that diagnosis many years ago and forgot about it because of self denial I guess.
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Well, that does answer some questions, doesn't it?

Do you really think the key characteristics of borderline apply to you? Fear of abandonment, lack of ego?

In that case the most obvious thing to do is to participate in some kind of competitive activity — sports, video games, chess etc — and try to get good while playing against a lot of different people. This is basically exposure therapy for BPD: in order to succeed you must develop your own strategy/playstyle (= ego) and repeatedly switch opponents and teams (= abandonment). Hopefully you will also make friends along the way.
 
madness00 said:
You bring forward many thoughts, some hard to follow. What do you mean when you ask "why don't people reflect themselves"? I'll try to throw up a thought but I'm largely confused.

IME most "alpha" men don't really try to one-up or dominate conversation. They merely carry themselves in a way that says, "You do you, because I'm doing me and loving it".

Women like people like this, and most are smart enough to realize it's not the one who's loudest or most reckless or emotionless. Some just want the one who "plays the part" the best, for a good fuck maybe, but if they're trying to look long term they most often can see right through men.

:oops:
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This 100%. Being the loudest mouth in room doesn't make you smartest.
Thinking about being dominant in situations shows that you actually care very much how people see you. It's normal. Even people who say "I don't care what people think" say it because they want people to think that way. What people think about you defines how they treat you, so it's actually very important to most people.
I have said the OP many times that just being good in what you're good at, focusing on it and looking for a purpose and sticking with it is the smartest thing you can do.
Don't compare yourself to others.
I have seen many people trying to prove themselves and make fool of themselves by doing it. I have heard this thing about one jail. When you come there, the guys would come ask you "How many pushups can you do?" If you said some number they would say "OK do it." When you do it, after it they beat you. You know why? Because normal people would have just laughed it off. The people who do it are trying to prove themselves.
You need to be ready to offend people, but don't do it on purpose. Don't stop saying something you want to say just because it might offend somebody. Don't leave something not done even if it hurts somebody. Act on your own interests. That's how you get respect.
On conversations stay calm and aim for the truth, not winning.
Internet can't help you much OP.
It seems like you are looking for happiness outside yourself, which wont work.
Stop thinking about this alpha beta shit.
I'm 191cm (6.3ft) weight nearly 100 kilos, i have had no problem getting girls and i'm engaged to a fantastic and lovely woman.
I think this alpha beta shit is rediciluos and if somebody said that in conversation with me i would laugh.
I say what i think and my woman loves it, that i'm not in her feet like snake trying to say something she likes, i say what i think. I also say if i think something is wrong with her and it's actually benefit to her, since if she would get fat and i would say "You're beatiful!" i would do her a huge wrong.
My best regards - DMW
 
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DeadManWalkin' said:
This 100%. Being the loudest mouth in room doesn't make you smartest.
Thinking about being dominant in situations shows that you actually care very much how people see you. It's normal. Even people who say "I don't care what people think" say it because they want people to think that way. What people think about you defines how they treat you, so it's actually very important to most people.
I have said the OP many times that just being good in what you're good at, focusing on it and looking for a purpose and sticking with it is the smartest thing you can do.
Don't compare yourself to others.
I have seen many people trying to prove themselves and make fool of themselves by doing it. I have heard this thing about one jail. When you come there, the guys would come ask you "How many pushups can you do?" If you said some number they would say "OK do it." When you do it, after it they beat you. You know why? Because normal people would have just laughed it off. The people who do it are trying to prove themselves.
You need to be ready to offend people, but don't do it on purpose. Don't stop saying something you want to say just because it might offend somebody. Don't leave something not done even if it hurts somebody. Act on your own interests. That's how you get respect.
On conversations stay calm and aim for the truth, not winning.
Internet can't help you much OP, you have made tons of posts like this like the one about your virginity.
Many people tried to help you, but you deleted it. I had spend hours writing stuff there with lots of thought. It made me angry and made me lose respect for you, since you said you deleted it only because of it made you feel bad. Many other people could have found the advice me and many others wrote there helpful, but your feelings were more important. Nonsense.
Fun thing is that you could have even tried the advice, but you deleting it tells that you couldn't actually care shit about things said there, because it didn't tell you how your situation is normal and how the problem isn't in you.
I think you make these posts without any real reason, but to rant. You seem like you are looking for happiness outside yourself, which wont work. Stop thinking about this alpha beta shit.
I'm 191cm (6.3ft) weight nearly 100 kilos, i have had no problem getting girls and i'm engaged to a fantastic and lovely woman.
I think this alpha beta shit is rediciluos and if somebody said that in conversation with me i would laugh.
I say what i think and my woman loves it, that i'm not in her feet like snake trying to say something she likes, i say what i think. I also say if i think something is wrong with her and it's actually benefit to her, since if she would get fat and i would say "You're beatiful!" i would do her a huge wrong.
My best regards - DMW
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OP, hope you're paying attention. This ˄.
 
atara said:
Well, that does answer some questions, doesn't it?

Do you really think the key characteristics of borderline apply to you? Fear of abandonment, lack of ego?
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Guess I do, yes. Somehow I seem to have a fucked up ability to twist things around in my mind without realizing it. My impression was that borderline is primarily a thing of being attracted to people that aren't good for you or have no respect for you, and react angry to the kind, friendly ones - maybe coming from a deep disrespect for yourself, like due to childhood trauma that was never worked up - as I met quite a few people showing this behavior, or at least obviously hurting themselves but this applies to me too, it's just masked.

Fear of abandonment - when sober, of course. Dissociatives are really good in masking the majority of textbook borderline, and we have that paper I've linked to above so it makes sense - maybe this is the main point why I fail to see the reality.

Just @DeadManWalkin' I never posted here about virginity, I had a longer relationship and some short time affairs in my life, with the exception of the first all only when I was high and that obviously messes with reality and people, and fucks them off when they finally realize something is weird. But I get the point about offending others or make them loosing respect, I can even emphasize with that to some degree.

Well - and here I may be wrong - that I think with that it's not trying. To rest on your fears and bad thoughts and glorify failure (which maybe borderline includes generally). Unfortunately I do that too, yeah. But the reason is that I have tried, on numerous attemps, and none of them worked at all.

Guess point is that I am no good at nothing real. There's a reason that I spent most "socializing" in recent time on a drugs board, that is after the last mental illness related board in my primary language went offline, what remains are some truly weird cult-ish sites on one I got banned after chatting privately with a member, and other "communities" like FB or all these chat thingys I just have no success or write them off too early, like my attempts in reality.

I have heavy social anxiety, that's what turned me to drug use over 12 years ago and every time I tried to fuck with sobriety it hit back on me with full force. Independent if it was in rehab, in therapy, at home (happen to lack a stable home at the moment and don't really know what to do about, market is tight and that helping industry doesn't help you at all. They threw me out more than once or didn't accept me into rehab cause I talked too openly.)
Nobody likes anxious people, and even less so desperate people. How to play confident when you're desperate? Many times I have isolated myself, to protect myself of bad experiences and others too but it doesn't work either.
 
dopamimetic said:
Guess I do, yes. Somehow I seem to have a fucked up ability to twist things around in my mind without realizing it. My impression was that borderline is primarily a thing of being attracted to people that aren't good for you or have no respect for you, and react angry to the kind, friendly ones - maybe coming from a deep disrespect for yourself, like due to childhood trauma that was never worked up - as I met quite a few people showing this behavior, or at least obviously hurting themselves but this applies to me too, it's just masked.

Fear of abandonment - when sober, of course. Dissociatives are really good in masking the majority of textbook borderline, and we have that paper I've linked to above so it makes sense - maybe this is the main point why I fail to see the reality.

Just @DeadManWalkin' I never posted here about virginity, I had a longer relationship and some short time affairs in my life, with the exception of the first all only when I was high and that obviously messes with reality and people, and fucks them off when they finally realize something is weird. But I get the point about offending others or make them loosing respect, I can even emphasize with that to some degree.

Well - and here I may be wrong - that I think with that it's not trying. To rest on your fears and bad thoughts and glorify failure (which maybe borderline includes generally). Unfortunately I do that too, yeah. But the reason is that I have tried, on numerous attemps, and none of them worked at all.

Guess point is that I am no good at nothing real. There's a reason that I spent most "socializing" in recent time on a drugs board, that is after the last mental illness related board in my primary language went offline, what remains are some truly weird cult-ish sites on one I got banned after chatting privately with a member, and other "communities" like FB or all these chat thingys I just have no success or write them off too early, like my attempts in reality.

I have heavy social anxiety, that's what turned me to drug use over 12 years ago and every time I tried to fuck with sobriety it hit back on me with full force. Independent if it was in rehab, in therapy, at home (happen to lack a stable home at the moment and don't really know what to do about, market is tight and that helping industry doesn't help you at all. They threw me out more than once or didn't accept me into rehab cause I talked too openly.)
Nobody likes anxious people, and even less so desperate people. How to play confident when you're desperate? Many times I have isolated myself, to protect myself of bad experiences and others too but it doesn't work either.
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I'm sorry i mixed you up with one guy who made very similiar posts as you. I'm really sorry for my accusation and i have to give you my deepest apologies.
However the advice is still there, i wish i could get my long writings on life advice from the someones virginity thread. Really long thread with lots of good advice from many people.
I'll write some more here when i have time.
I will edit my post now, so it doesn't contain the part which has false information.
 
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Don't worry, can happen on message boards :)

Yeah I am avoiding, and this is a problem I know. Just that refusal hurts so bad and deep (somehow strange that you can feel empty and have this at the same time, sounds like opposites) and it's already in the nature of people that when you're alone and the others are many, you'll get more refusals than welcomes and now add being a freak and weird personality with strange interests on top. Probably I don't look too bad, not above average either and it needs some work - just that then again many say it isn't how you look and watching other people seems to confirm this. Feeling comfortable in your own skin, having a nice personality probably tops much physical superficiality and I guess heavily that I won't find the energy to make heavy work outs daily anytime soon..
 
I honestly wouldn’t consider your borderline and I’d definitely go back to a psychologist and get that checked. I’m not going to make any armchair diagnosis of you because I don’t think it would be healthy for you to know what I or anyone else thinks about your mental state. You are very introspective which can be both a good and a bad thing.

I guess I wanted to say that you’re using drugs to paper over a crack and the longer your use them that crack is just getting bigger and bigger. Eventually they won’t help anymore and you’re gonna have to deal with a very harsh reality. I’d advise you to go to a psychologist/your dr and be completely honest about your drug use. You need to stop using and strip it right back to the foundations, you will be able to build yourself up again it’s just gonna take time.

In regards to shy and alpha, it all depends on exposure. Those who are shy generally weren’t exposed to situations when they were young where they had to stand out or up, those who are alpha generally were put out there and into those situations. You see it all the time when observing kids, it’s easy to tell who the alphas and shy kids are.
 
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