Shrooms Cake vs Bin

[lawlbear]

Hey everyone I'm new to growing shrooms, and was wondering if it's possible to produce a shroom yield as significant as a bin growth from cakes.

Since I dont have enough for a TEK at the moment I was going to follow this procedure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iFi3YrIo7o

I was reading forums on Bin vs Tray and it seems that the reason tray produces more growth then a cake is contributed to a better spread on the vermiculite then on a cake.

So I was wondering if once the colonizing stage was complete, following the above procedure. Would cutting the cakes in length to be more slim but still wide in diameter yield more production?

 

[Solipsis]

I recommend growing cakes, then crumbling and casing them into trays. Works fantastic!

Cutting the cakes probably won't help you, as I understand it the volume of the cakes is more important than the surface area, because what matters is the amount of food (substrate) for the fungus to eat.
Although it may be so that a bigger surface area for the same volume produces a relatively bigger first flush but does not last as many flushes (or produces smaller later flushes). So it's like a big burst vs. slow release. And another thing: cutting cakes damages the mycelium and can cause a delay in growth because reconsolidation has to take place.
Also, you will get contaminations eventually as the mycelium grows weak when all the food has been consumed. So after a big burst it's more likely to get contaminations. It's just more 'spent'.

Like I said crumbling the cakes is best, but you shouldn't crumble them completely, rather cut them into slices and lay them into a tray. Then fill the holes between the rounds with pieces that stay as big as possible but without leaving air inbetween. Then case with peat or coco coir 50-50 soil.
Yes I know I just said don't damage the cakes but you kinda have to to make them into a flat tray. But if you keep the pieces as whole as possible it takes the least time for the myc to recouperate and all will be well. The casing definitely protects from contamination and helps with direct moisture availability.

 

[lawlbear]

I recommend growing cakes, then crumbling and casing them into trays. Works fantastic!

nice, didnt think of that =] I think I will go with that ^.^
quick thing. I take it you crumble them after the birthing process. If so do u put any dry vermiculite on top of it still?

 

[lawlbear]

You wouldn't happen to have pictures of how to cut or crumble them would you?
Bit confused because of this....

"Cutting the cakes probably won't help you, cutting cakes damages the mycelium and can cause a delay in growth "
"Like I said crumbling the cakes is best, but you shouldn't crumble them completely, rather cut them into slices and lay them into a tray."

 

[Solipsis]

No, the dry verm you are talking about is part of the dunk and roll - the dunking being a day of soaking them (submerging) in water, preferably in the fridge, which happens right after the birthing and is a good idea no matter what you do next.
But the 'roll' part is only for when you keep them as cakes until the very end. Rolling in dry verm is the cake version of casing a tray. They function the same: to protect from contamination and to retain water to pass on directly to the myc "surface".

You wouldn't happen to have pictures of how to cut or crumble them would you?
Bit confused because of this....

"Cutting the cakes probably won't help you, cutting cakes damages the mycelium and can cause a delay in growth "

Okay well this was my response to your question if it's wise to cut the cakes in half when you keep them as cakes in your growing chamber. So that would be: birth, dunk, cut in half, roll.

"Like I said crumbling the cakes is best, but you shouldn't crumble them completely, rather cut them into slices and lay them into a tray."

This was when I was talking about NOT keeping them as cakes in your growing chamber but rather transforming your cake into a tray. So that would be: birth, dunk, cut into slices that fit into your tray, fill all holes with crumbles, case.

So about the crumbling: the term may be misleading - some people like to crumble up their cakes completely and put a layer of the crumbles into a tray, leaving maybe 3/4 inch open on top for the layer of casing soil. You can do that but it means unnecessary damaging of the mycelium. What is smarter is to cut slices of the cakes the thickness of the depth of your tray minus the 3/4" on top. I don't have a link to a pictorial right away but will look for it, but the idea is to cover the bottom with these slices. But since they are most likely round slices (since most jars and filterboxes are round) you get holes between them. Well fill the holes with chunks of mycelium, keep filling the smaller holes with smaller pieces until your tray is filled. You don't have to be overly meticulous but big holes are a contamination hazard.

 

[lawlbear]

Ah kk I get ya now. Thanks a lot for all the info. It's greatly appreciated =]

 

[Solipsis]

No problem
Sorry but I can't find a pictorial. Love to have you here but I definitely think you oughta use the Shroomery for these cultivation questions. BL has almost everything (else) but that's just what those guys specialize in. Many teks and what not.
Nevertheless if you dig around some and still have a question you feel more comfortable asking here, you always can.

 

[lawlbear]

It's all good. And yeah I learned a lot on the shroomery, just couldn't find a answer to my initial question.

 

[cryptix420]

I'd advise against crumbling the cakes. I tried it myself recently and it's just not really worth it. Save the time/money wasted on 1/2 pint jars and the like, and instead get the full quart jars and some bird seed and go with that method.

Short answer, no. There's no way to get a tub like yield from cakes. There really is no reason to do cakes, unless you WANT less yield.

 

[Solipsis]

Oh yes I have to admit that I forgot to mention I switched from regular cake subtrate mixtures (BRF for instance) to birdseed, not WBS but something like chicken fodder in my case, not sure but I checked a shroomery thread about ideal seed mixtures.
Generally, don't pick sunflower seeds especially black/hollow ones in your seedmix.

The reason I forgot to say this is that I kept using the exact same filterboxes and often didn't care to shake the colonized seeds around (which is a good idea to do at least once). So the result for me was kind of cake-like and therefore the line between cake and not-cake was not as well-defined. I swithed gradually so to speak.

Be careful with TOO big jars though, it's great if you succeed but if you are not pro yet they can give contaminations more time to germinate because colonization simply takes longer.

FYI, I have not actively cultivated for a while now. Preoccupied and honestly I still have a bunch of mushrooms left so no need for new ones. It was great to do though so that was definitely not the only reason.

 

[greenmeanies]

i would suggest you stick to a simple cake technique for your first time.

i know i plug them a lot, but mycotopia.net has an incredibly helpful growing community who will gladly answer your questions and also point you to some awesome guides they have stashed in their vaults.

each time you handle or damage a cake, you are increasing the risk for contamination. casing (nutrient-poor materials that just hold water) are not that risky, but anything can go wrong in a first-time grow.

the advantage to cakes is "not putting all your eggs in one basket"

the first steps to learning how to grow fungus include learning how to be 100% sterile. i'm pretty sure anyone starting on grain from internet directions will have some major issues with contamination.

 

[lawlbear]

I'm prob gonna stick to cakes since it's my first and what not. But I switched to smaller sized jars.

As for the sterile part i'm pretty confident that I can keep it as sterile as possible. Especially with how much I've seen and read. Just gotta put it into practice now =P

 

[Solipsis]

Oh didn't know you were very new at this, perhaps your question should have given that away. Or not.
Cakes are known to be fit for first-timers and with good reason.
But green, your tray doesn't have to be that much bigger than a cake volume-wise. It wasn't for me, I used aluminum oven-trays.

My advice to make a tray from a (would be) cake is from own experience that evolved over a couple of grows although not a huge number.
I think that switching from cakes to trays to monotubs for instance is a natural process, heard about a lot of people doing it like that.

 

[Damien]

Never grown cakes, always did tubs/trays.

Why not try both?

Go big or go home (with growing em, not eating em heh).

 

[cryptix420]

It's a big conspiracy, really, telling people to do cakes their first time. If you can follow directions off the internet to do cakes successfully, why not with tubs? It's all the same steps just different materials. Maybe some growers are just greedy and wanna keep the huge yields for themselves, secretly laughing at people wasting their time with the PF tek. lol.

 

[Damien]

^ Well if you've never done it before it's easier to learn the life cycle of the fungus on a small scale I would think. Things would go quicker and there is a lot less chance of contamination.

 

[cryptix420]

I spose youre right. It's just hard to be objective about it now looking back, since i love monotubs so much compared to cakes

 

[Damien]

^ Like I said, I never did cakes but I can see why they might be a good idea.

 

[lawlbear]

^ Like I said, I never did cakes but I can see why they might be a good idea.

You know I was looking into bin growth and its pretty amazing. Only problem is in all the forums i'm reading everyone is suggesting to crumble the cake after the birthing process and put it on manure. Wouldn't that get smelly though? If thats the case can you replace manure for something else like coir?

 

[cryptix420]

You know I was looking into bin growth and its pretty amazing. Only problem is in all the forums i'm reading everyone is suggesting to crumble the cake after the birthing process and put it on manure. Wouldn't that get smelly though? If thats the case can you replace manure for something else like coir?

manure is really only necessary for more potent, picky strains like panaeolus cyanescens. Coco is fantastic and works wonderfully for cubensis. You can get it for like five bucks at petco, it comes in bricks in the lizarding department. :D