Should you or would you dob in a drug dealer if?

[thestudent14]

Nope.

I've had a family member die resently, he smoked and drank, can I snitch on to the cops about the places selling him substances that harmed his body?

Theres one big difference though, your family member knew what he was taking each and every time. With PMA when it was expected to be MDMA is potentially lethal. If someone gave your family member a drink that wasn't alcohol saying that it was then why should they not be held for scrutiny?

My condolences to you and your family =(


I must say after reading through this thread, I'm now more leaning towards busty's point of view. I think I'd only hand someone over to the police if they had knowingly sold PMA as anything other than PMA, if someone chooses to buy PMA pills and eat them anyway, whilst I would never ever advise it. It's still their choice to do so. But if they have been told it's MDMA then it's a whole different ball game and the dealer deserves to suffer the full extent of the law.

 

[Sustanon]

I believe the consumer and manufacturer should all be held accountable. The consumer should test the pills before consuming and the manufacturer is responsible for the ingredients in pills. Its really hard to blame it on one single person/persons as its a black market with no regulations whatsoever. Its not a great idea to rat on someone, if the street level dealer or anyone higher up in the chain knows for certain it contains PMA it should be sent back to where it came from not passing it down the chain. Like most times the low level dealers have no clue as to what is in them and they prob know no more info about their pills than the consumer. If I knew who was making them and passing it on as MDMA pills I for sure would rat on them if one of my family members or friends die or are hospitalized because of it.

 

[spacejunk]

There have been cases of people accidentally serving customers drinks at bars from bottles that were full of antifreeze and things like that. The bar worker didn't realise, nor did the customers, until they became sick or possibly died.
I can't find a link to the story I'm thinking of, but this is a similar tale;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...die-drinking-antifreeze-thought-vermouth.html

I think if people don't know, it's a bit harsh to blame them. Should this carry over to dealers selling pure heroin that kills people?
It's a complicated issue, but I think the trauma of knowing you'd contributed to somebody dying could be punishment enough. Depends on the circumstances, and of course the individual.

 

[redsweater]

^
There is a clear difference between selling generally harmless drugs (cut with PMA) to to young naive people and selling notoriously dangerous drugs to experienced users.

 

[spacejunk]

sure, but what if you were low in the food chain and had no idea what was in the pills? i suppose what i'm getting at is that not everyone in the network of drug supply may be aware of exactly what is in them.
yes, we must insist people test their pills, but the reality is that there is little to no quality control in the world of black market drug supply and manufacture. all the more reason for users to be responsible and test things before they consume them.

 

[footscrazy]

There is a clear difference between selling generally harmless drugs (cut with PMA) to to young naive people and selling notoriously dangerous drugs to experienced users.

I don't understand your statement here - what exactly are you saying? I don't think the difference between pill dealers and heroin dealers is so distinct. Not all heroin dealers are selling to experienced users, and not all pill dealers are selling to young naive people. But even despite that, it appears you're putting the onus on a different side on each case for a fairly arbitrary reason. Why should it be on the buyer to know that heroin is 'notoriously dangerous', but it's not the responsibility of a pill buyer to know there could be a danger?

 

[spacejunk]

Pills in Australia in the last ~3 years have been anything but harmless. Expecting them to be MDMA is naive...

 

[redsweater]

Not all heroin dealers are selling to experienced users, and not all pill dealers are selling to young naive people.

Yes obviously, but most people that try heroin have some experience in opiates and know what they are getting into. Also it is far more socially acceptable to do pills than H, and hence you are more likely to get 'peer pressured' into doing pills. Is it uncommon for some young naive person to be offered mdma pills at a party? Could you say the same about heroin?

P.S. I agree the responsibility should rest with the user, but honestly a lot people are just fucking lazy and irresponsible.

Pills in Australia in the last ~3 years have been anything but harmless. Expecting them to be MDMA is naive...

I know that, and so does everyone on BL. Yet what about all the first time users that never heard about this site or HR in their life? Of course they are NAIVE, that is my point...

EDIT: In summary
I probably shouldn't have got into this argument, I don't use party pills or any non-pharm drugs for that matter. I understand it is somewhat hypocritical to criticise one type of drug dealer but not another.

But I can just imagine my little sister who is social, outgoing, and drug naive, getting into a similar situation, and it scares me.

 

[footscrazy]

Yes obviously, but most people that try heroin have some experience in opiates and know what they are getting into. Also it is far more socially acceptable to do pills than H, and hence you are more likely to get 'peer pressured' into doing pills. Is it uncommon for some young naive person to be offered mdma pills at a party? Could you say the same about heroin?

I think you're missing my point with these questions. I don't disagree that many naive people probably get offered pills at a party. What I don't see is why being naive should mean that a dealer is more implicated in your death, if you take something dangerous. This seemed to be your implication when you responded to spacejunk's query about whether the blame should also apply to heroin dealers. If you agree that the responsbility is on users - what is the clear difference between the two?

 

[Divine Moments]

I can just imagine my little sister who is social, outgoing, and drug naive, getting into a similar situation, and it scares me.

Maybe you should educate her? Unless by drug naive you just mean that she hasn't taken drugs before.

 

[redsweater]

I think you're missing my point with these questions. I don't disagree that many naive people probably get offered pills at a party. What I don't see is why being naive should mean that a dealer is more implicated in your death, if you take something dangerous. This seemed to be your implication when you responded to spacejunk's query about whether the blame should also apply to heroin dealers. If you agree that the responsbility is on users - what is the clear difference between the two?

Yes I accept my argument is flawed, and probably unclear (I am not majoring in journalism if you haven't guessed)
My point is most heroin users know the risks, whilst many mdma pill users simply don't. Strong gear may be uncommon but not unusual, but PMA in mdma pills is a rarity. How is a drug naive person who is offered a pill meant to know they should test it first? I mean they don't teach this shit in schools.

And sure people OD on heroin but a lot of these are people who are using big amounts or relapsed and overestimated their tolerance. They could have OD'd exactly the same way on pharmaceutical opiates, even though the dose is known. The fact is they either did or didn't do a test shot not because they didn't know the risks, but because they either cared enough or didn't.

Therefore taking 2 pills and dying because it was laced with some deadly chemical is not the same as shooting up a few points and knowing its gonna be close. I blame the dealer because he must know he is blind-siding anyone who doesn't pill test, which I imagine is a lot of young, naive people who have no reason to expect it.

 

[Cornishman]

Do whatever it takes to get those disgusting unethical pills of our streets.
Do it, and do it now!!!

 

[AyahuascaSeeker13]

The majority of "dealers", unless you know them don't know what they are selling. Dealers or whatever name you choose to use are purely in it for money. Not only that, if you're buying pills at raves, clubs, pubs etc... The people selling them are probably just selling a few off to cover their cost of their 19 pack.

To put the blame wholly and soley on the dealer is irresponsible. Lagging them to the cops or kicking in a door, again, irresponsible. Unless you know who had pressed the pills, and have the balls (which very few do), why bother?

The only way to stop the trade is to stop buying what you think is a good bikkie! Stop buying, people stop dying, manufacturers lose money, then guess what? MDMA re appears.

Thread closed IMO.

 

[spacejunk]

^ agreed

 

[Westy1980]

NO.. dealers aernt the ones to blame for users, we make our own choices.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

I could not agree more spacejunk hotheads and police should stay out. What I'm saying is outcomes are not always the one you want. There are plenty of well armed crims out there and unless your scoring of your mate who happens to buy a few pills and sells to a couple of people the outcome may not be good for your health. Again I agree, the police don't make laws. It is the government and cases that come to trial that address issues not yet raised in courtoutcome or have new/unique outcomes that set new standards for future cases going to trial (MABO).
The suggestion of this tread was would you dob in a dealer and I have raised some issues that may or may not apply ie: is the guy/girl some psycho with a wepon and do they have friends that would do bad things for a few $ or some drugs as payment? Even some low level dealers have wepons esp. if they are super paranoid. Also will the guy you scored off rat on his dealer and his dealer give up his dealer? Possibly but more likely no. Most reasonable people would be appauled the pills they sold had made people sick or worse and flush the shit. Psycho's and desperado's are a different story.
PMA pills were being pressed up in Ipswich a few years back by a bloke who owned his own smash repair place and basically the pills were sold to cover the cost of his drag car team and his taste for expensive drugs. Not someone who you would associate with drug manufacture as he was a pillar of the local community. He was involved in some bad shit in the background though!! When the cops raided him he had a pill press, firearms and wads of cash. Psycho's are the people you would never expect cause they hide in plain sight and manipulate people to achieve what they want.
Someone who screams shouts, tells you they are going to kill you or smash your head in and generally acts like a tit is not a psycho, just an anti-social personality disorder. A psycho drug dealer would act like your best mate until he/she thought you were a risk to him/her and then you would cop it. My post was overboard but I was having a giggle and taking the piss. Will remove it because I don't want anyone else thinking I'm macho or whatever. BTW a friend I've known scince childhood did 5 years for having 2kg of meth in a modified compartment welded into the engine bay. Police new exactly were to look! It's apparent they had been tipped off and the guy set up.
I've got a few stories like that, the point I'm trying to make however is drug manufactures and distributors at the higher end will be A: armed, B: prepared to hurt/kill others to gain advantage (pressing PMA pills says it all) and C: Most people would not have access to these individuals unless involved in the production and immediate distribution of substance X. Are these the people you want to dob in, attempt to keep in-house or have anything to do with? I know I don't.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Of course I would, fuck them. No body is immune from their bad decisions. Even if you are a little low level pill rat dishing out PMA then you should suffer the consequences. Why should you not be responsible for someones death? If you can't carry this heavy responsibility then you should get out of the game. You wouldn't excuse their naivety if they decided to not pay their supplier so why shouldn't they be responsible for their product.

Drug transactions come with a lot of trust. Your supplier trusts you to pay up, both parties trust each other not to do something suspicious to result in both of you being arrested and there is trust that what you are buying is exactly as described. If one of these parties fucks up then all "rules of trade" are null and void. If the consumer has to test their pills why can't the dealer before he buys? There is no excuse for anyone to be ignorant to their product, especially if they are causing people to die. It's a weak excuse to say you didn't know and you should accept any retribution that will come your way.

 

[mister]

Of course I would, fuck them. No body is immune from their bad decisions. Even if you are a little low level pill rat dishing out PMA then you should suffer the consequences. Why should you not be responsible for someones death? If you can't carry this heavy responsibility then you should get out of the game. You wouldn't excuse their naivety if they decided to not pay their supplier so why shouldn't they be responsible for their product.

Drug transactions come with a lot of trust. Your supplier trusts you to pay up, both parties trust each other not to do something suspicious to result in both of you being arrested and there is trust that what you are buying is exactly as described. If one of these parties fucks up then all "rules of trade" are null and void. If the consumer has to test their pills why can't the dealer before he buys? There is no excuse for anyone to be ignorant to their product, especially if they are causing people to die. It's a weak excuse to say you didn't know and you should accept any retribution that will come your way.

Im glad Ive never been in the situation where dobbing in someone was an option but In some ways I agree with Busty. If someone is knowingly selling a tainted drug that is killing people we have a duty as humans to protect life, the ole "honour amongst thieves" is null and void as Busty says.

Ill start by saying MOST of those full of bravado and beating their chests about keeping it "in house" wouldnt have the back up, muscle or fire power to deal with it themselves and would probably end up black and blue or worse.

they obviously dont give a flying fuck about you or I so why should we afford them the protection to keep peddling harmful drugs masquerading as something else?

The reason I would consider "dobbing" them in wouldnt be to punish them but to hopefully save some ones life.

You have to ask your self the question, what if one of your friends or relatives bought a PMA loaded pill and died from a dealer knowingly selling them, what would you consider reasonable to save peoples lives?