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SEROTONIN SYNDROME..... What is it? Any experiences?

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4evrLkn

Bluelighter
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I was wondering if someone could explain to me what this serotonin syndrome is, and what some of the effects are, and any experiences anyone has had with this. Also was wondering how much loss of serotonin, or 'how much' MDMA, or MDA....etc. One would have to take to get to that point.
Thanx in advance for all your comments!
 
I think that There is a difference,
in the fact that you can get Mild Serotonin syndrome (which i believe i have from 200mg mdma then 9 days later doing 800mg)
Then there is the potientially fatal Serotonin Syndrome.


The symptoms are often described as a clinical triad of abnormalities:[1][5]

Cognitive effects: headache, agitation, hypomania, mental confusion, hallucinations, coma
Autonomic effects: shivering, sweating, hyperthermia, hypertension, tachycardia, nausea, diarrhea.
Somatic effects: myoclonus (muscle twitching), hyperreflexia (manifested by clonus), tremor.


Serotonin syndrome is a potentially life-threatening adverse drug reaction that may occur following therapeutic drug use, inadvertent interactions between drugs, overdose of particular drugs, or the recreational use of certain drugs

--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome
 
Thanks for detailed reply.... So is there anything someone can take to rebuke the effects of this?
 
I can't say with any certainty, but I believe hospitals usually treat it by lowering body temperature, saline, and some sort of medication to stop the muscle spasms. The way I understand it, serotonin syndrome is rarely caused by one drug. It most often occurs when combining drugs. This is all of the top of my head, and I haven't done much reading on it for a year or so, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Funnily enough I had it this weekend. Went out with some friends and they're pretty hardcore when it comes to quantities and mixing etc. Anyway I was going about my dose fine as I usually do (1 whole pill then half a pill every hour after). What I didn't know was they had put some in everybody else's drinks. So the next day I can't move half my body, there's sweat pouring off me like I've never seen before, my top half of my body is cooked and my bottom half is freezing. I couldn't piss for over 12 hours and was hallucinating 2 days later. This is serious and my friends are idiots for doing this but I guess that's one of the risks you take for doing drugs in the first place.

One of my friends was even worse, he thought he was at work when we were in a club. It was scary watching your friend actually try and work and think you're someone completely different to the point were you can't even shake him out of it.
 
andyclark1225 said:
One of my friends was even worse, he thought he was at work when we were in a club. It was scary watching your friend actually try and work and think you're someone completely different to the point were you can't even shake him out of it.
Click to expand...

Makes me wonder if some of my friends have had mild serotonin syndrome a few times :S We'd just be hanging out dancing like usual then my friend would tell me they're putting new carpets in his room... Or one time one of my friends was just talking complete nonsense every time I tried to talk to him and then he would just say never mind or reply something else retarded when I said wtf are you talking about?

I notice this happens a lot when they would mix with alcohol...
 
starlett7 said:
Makes me wonder if some of my friends have had mild serotonin syndrome a few times :S We'd just be hanging out dancing like usual then my friend would tell me they're putting new carpets in his room... Or one time one of my friends was just talking complete nonsense every time I tried to talk to him and then he would just say never mind or reply something else retarded when I said wtf are you talking about?

I notice this happens a lot when they would mix with alcohol...
Click to expand...

That's exactly it! I can't stand it and it kills my high.
 
well my theory is that alcohol lessens our serotonin levels,
Not in the same way that mdma does (by releasing our serotonin, thats why we feel so great)

I know that alcohol and mdma is the worst comedown ive had from mdma
 
SS is typically the result of TWO serotonin agents.
It is defined as 'too much serotonin activity in the brainstem' combined with a constellation of symptoms.
I find this definition to be lacking in specificity, as it does not explain what is really happening in the brain.

It is very likely that the neurotoxic effects of MDMA leave portions of the serotonin system altered.
Altered serotonin transmission can result in 'high' serotonin.

The terms 'high' and 'low' are too frequently used to describe a very complex system.
The serotonin is 'high' in the sense that some axons are not functioning, leaving the rest of the network with a relative increase in serotonin.
Somewhere else in the brain, neurons are receiving WAY too much serotonin.

It is pretty much accepted in the scientific community that serotonin damages higher cortical axons, and can even cause brain-wide axonal destruction!
And the hypothalamus is hyper-innervated during 'recovery' or 're-wiring'.
Since the hypothalamus is the control center for the ENDOCRINE system (which is directly involved in SS) - it could be concluded that serotonin syndrome is caused by too much serotonin activity in the Hypothalamus due to damaged cortical axons.

Serotonin Syndrome is a quick onset disorder.
It will surprise the fuck out of you, because there is NO warning.
The most common sign that it has begun is severe tachycardia.
Many patients describe 'heart attacks' and an impending sense of death.

In severe cases the patient may be completely unable to speak at all - only displaying panic and anxiety.
Abdominal pain and swelling are also common in severe cases, and increased bowel sounds are common in less severe cases.

The intestines are the primary site of all serotonin, and the contraction of smooth muscle in the gut increases serotonin in the brainstem.
If the brain is not equipped to handle this increase, a set of symptoms can arise.

While typically the result of two different serotonergic drugs, it can occur from the mixing of serotonergic and dopminergic agents.
Even St. John's Wort, which is a very mild serotonin agent, has been tied to SS.
I have read more than once that tramadol and SSRIs can be a lethal combo.

But MDMA damages the system, esp. with repeated doses.
The experience of 'rolling' in 'normal' users actually contains a very similar cascade of events as traditional SS.

Heart rate goes up along with anxiety.
Stomach discomfort is common, including a need to evacuate.
While metabolism is increased, a release of anti-diuretic hormone prevents the kidneys from removing water from the bloodstream.
This is the reason pissing while coming up is so difficult.

An exaggerated set of the SAME symptoms occurs with SS.
Repeated use of MDMA likely increases the RISK of SS, as the brain becomes less and less able to properly distribute serotonin.
And the Hypothalamus is becoming more and more compromised.
I have read several case reports of ACUTE reactions to MDMA that took 2-3 days to set in.
This is what happened to me - 3 days after my last MDMA dose and 14 hours after 100mg of benedryl.
I will never be the same.

Fever is a sign of advanced SS.
Above 101.4 it is considered VERY serious.
At 104 organ damage, stroke, and brain-death are much more likely.
Above 104 you don't want to survive.

I reached 101 and started cooling myself aggressively.
But it took 2 hours of the most intense suffering of my LIFE to get to that point.
Cooling off is the GREATEST method of controlling SS.

Sipping electrolytes helps the kidneys remove excess water from the bloodstream and lower cerebral pressure.
But body temp is BY FAR the greatest factor.
 
Okay, so that time I was going to die after taking E was Seratonin Syndrome... gah. And also now I understand why my intestines clench every time I get anxious. First Bad Comedown, I am often skeptical of believing what other people say, but what you are saying makes sense based on the experience that I've had.
 
I think i may have gotten it from my worst roll experience, but it's hard to tell because i was piped that night. I have a feeling the pipe i had was a serotonin releaser, and i mixed it with 2 other mdma pills. My symptoms definitely matched up as serotonin syndrome, but i can't be for sure because when your on pipes you feel like that anyway.
 
The uncontrollable muscle spasms are a definite trademark. As well as panic attacks.

If one experiences what they may deem "serotonin syndrome", then do not attempt to take ecstasy for a very long time.
 
Thoughts of impending death are common with severe serotonin syndrome.
And sometimes it turns out to be true!

I have had very odd sensations in my gut for over a year now.
Some of them are so subtle that I can easily imagine other people not even being aware of them.
I have had many episodes of mild 'serotonin syndrome' throughout the year.
Early on they were very intense, but now they are easy to tolerate.
It is quite ironic that a VERY similar cascade of events that are typical of 'rolling' should now occur in the absence of the drug, or any euphoria.

It isn't very common...maybe a dozen times in 13 months.
But it can be very intense and can take HOURS to pass.
The first 30 minutes is ALWAYS the worst.

'Too much serotonin activity in the brainstem'.
Right...
 
So thanks for the great responses! I was wondering FirstBadComedown.... Do you remember how much MDMA or other drugs you were were doing before this onset happened to you? Were you taking MDMA often? A bunch at a time? Mixing with other chemicals? And is there anything you can take beforehand or after 'dosing' to help build up some of the lost serotonin from a night of MDMA? Taking a cool bath while coming down? Maybe drinking some pedialyte or electrolytes while 'rolling'.....?
 
It is very rare that you get SS from MDMA alone, or after the drug has worn off. That is unless you are taking extremely high doses, but if you know you have clean MDMA and you are not mixing it with any other serotonin releasers you will not get SS. You will have a very drained serotonin system for a few days to months but that's it. Stick to one batch of pills at a time, don't do those cock tail of ecstasy pills. One of them can be a pipe that acts on serotonin and then you are fucked like what happened to me.
 
there were pills around the west coast Supermans that were strong in mdma and really strong in meth. i was just starting to use e and popped 3 when my friends who could usually pop 5 avg pills in a night popped ONE of these supermans and were lifted off the ground. the night was good until all three pills kicked in and then i started shivering, sweating, muscle tremors, eyes bugging out, utterly confused, abdominal pain. It was the worst roll ever. totally fucked off. i freaked out thinking i needed to go to the hospital cuz i had been drinking water but couldnt piss at all. had the strongest feeling to piss but all my muscles were fully contracted and i was freaking out.

those e bombs with meth in em are BAD news and i think that combo and most defiantly lead to serotonin syndrome and worst of all the oxidation of the serotonin receptors by all the dopamine released by the meth. I wont touch xtc pills anymore, just molly
 
starlett7 said:
Makes me wonder if some of my friends have had mild serotonin syndrome a few times :S We'd just be hanging out dancing like usual then my friend would tell me they're putting new carpets in his room... Or one time one of my friends was just talking complete nonsense every time I tried to talk to him and then he would just say never mind or reply something else retarded when I said wtf are you talking about?

I notice this happens a lot when they would mix with alcohol...
Click to expand...

this also has happened to a number of mates of mine. But to be honest I dont think its SS. I think it is just a combination of the alcohol. It only ever happened when mixed with alcohol. We where at a festival and my mate gave me his phone I said "Um what are you doing man?" he then takes his phone back, takes a swig of it as if its a bottle and says "thanks man". There was plenty of other stuff acted out and much more nonsense.

Moral of my story. Dont combine alcohol in large amounts with MDMA.. Youuu GoooO LOooOCccOOooo
 
It's an argument against preloading with 5-HTP! It's also an argument against being on SSRIs when you roll I believe. Just like you don't want to have too little of a neurotransmitter, you also don't want to have too much.
 
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