Serotonin release question.

[tmdoca]

Am I right in saying that a way to verify that a chemical has serotoginic neurotoxicity is to take it twice in a row and observe a degree of instant tolerance, similar to what happens with MDMA? The chemical in this case is 4-FA, so don't use the psychedelics instant tolerance as a data point.

 

[Allein]

Not from what I have read serotoginic neurotoxicity hasn't even been fully proven to exist and certainly not as a result of MDMA use although there is allot of work in the area.

Its all a bit of a let for me, I must have taken at least 500 doses of MDMA in an 8 year period, so when I developed acute depression years later I had high hops for SSRIs but not only do they not work for me, they make me very ill, vomiting, internal bleeding etc

I'm not really sure what you mean by "twice in a row", in what period of time and why do you believe this would be a marker for serotoginic neurotoxicity, genuine questions as its obviously an area of interest to me.

 

[tmdoca]

From reading I gather that the toxicity would be due to the depletion of serotonin. And it was for that reason that you cant roll on MDMA for 12 hours straight just by spacing the pills out. So I figured you could link the depletion of serotonin to observing a tolerance in the dose taken shortly after the first.

 

[Doug2113]

not saying you should start doing more drugs as that's not really HR...but you can roll for more than 12 hours lol...you just have to take enough....

 

[Allein]

There is a big difference between depletion of serotonin lots of which isn't even in your brain and neurotoxicity.

Tolerance was never really a big problem for me even on 48hr benders with MDMA, but clearly this isn't a clever thing to be doing, one night is really enough but over the course of say 12 hours I would redose every 2 hours, not in the beginning but for many years and they still hit pretty hard even after 12 hours of dosing.

Some of the medical prfesion make out like they understand exactly the role serotonin plays in the brain, but it's fairly clear they don't at all.

 

[tmdoca]

Well that little enlightenment about MDMA was the best answer I could hope for, because that's really what I was basing this all on.

 

[effie]

If you are interested, there are some studies and info about possible MDMA neurotoxicity on Erowid.

The jury is still out, really, especially in practical terms (what effect it actually has on users). Most researchers agree that flooding the brain with serotonin can be neurotoxic but it is not clear how significant this is. Atm is correct - there is a lot that is still unknown, and every so often a new paper will come out that changes the way doctors/scientists think about the role of serotonin.

There is a little bit of info on 4-FA's neurotoxicity on wikipedia here. There is currently little research available on this drug however..

 

[atrollappears]

Am I right in saying that a way to verify that a chemical has serotoginic neurotoxicity is to take it twice in a row and observe a degree of instant tolerance, similar to what happens with MDMA? The chemical in this case is 4-FA, so don't use the psychedelics instant tolerance as a data point.

No, that is not a reliable way to measure neurotoxicity. Also, 4-FA does not display serotonergic neurotoxicity in rats and likely not in humans, unless we've developed magic super enzymes to cleave the strongest known organic bond (carbon-fluorine).