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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Serotonin issue

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I think you are a little bit paranoid... Serotonin syndrome is a severe form of toxicity (fever-like-symptoms; blackouts etc.). As long as you don't combine certain medications/ plants or take high single doses you won't get serotonin syndrome.

I thought I would have had serotonin syndrome taking low doses of MDMA and having low amounts of apiprazole in my body... Panic can let you feel things not being the way they seem. How long did you take 5-HTP? Is it maybe an allergic reaction? Stress?
 
Thank all the people who have been trying to help me. I understand you are sincere, but at this time I would like to receive only replies from s0rsha. If any other member who hasn't participated in this thread would like to reply - please read carefully all of my posts here before replying, including clicking on a link I have posted and reading it for at least one minute.
While this issue is not an emergency - it is very important to me and my health.
 
If it's that important to your health you need to see a doctor.

If you still get a headache and hotness from ingesting things that are wholly unrelated to serotonin (dimethylaminoethanol, tyrosine etc) perhaps it is psychogenic. I suggest you run a blinded study where someone either gives you 5HTP or placebo (sugar) capsules... my money's on it being uncorrelated to ingesting anything.

You would probably be equally as likely to find you get raised blood pressure, anxiety, hotness etc from doing something like thinking about eating a "serotonin rich food"...

Also, it's considered really, really condescending to post a thread on a public forum and then claim that you only want one person to reply.
 
to me, it's most probably psychological. it happens with a broad variety of food and supplements, and you think of all of them to be "serotonergic". you include tryptophan, yet you say you tolerate meat just fine, which apparently contains lots of it. were you aware of that fact beforehand?

maybe you should take advice from people who know a lot about pharmacology (I don't see myself among those people btw..)? btw, the one poster you "allowed" to post also said that your issue is not serotonin related... ;)
 
ranidf said:
Thank all the people who have been trying to help me. I understand you are sincere, but at this time I would like to receive only replies from s0rsha. If any other member who hasn't participated in this thread would like to reply - please read carefully all of my posts here before replying, including clicking on a link I have posted and reading it for at least one minute. While this issue is not an emergency - it is very important to me and my health.
Click to expand...
I won't reply anymore since you don't seem interested, but I think it is appropriate to comment on the link you posted (http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/serotonin-syndrome) since you seem to be implying that no one read it. That is actually an excellent page and I recommend that you read it again. If you scroll down you will see the Hunter criteria for serotonin syndrome. According to the Hunter criteria, a diagnosis of serotonin syndrome (SS) requires that you fall into one of the following five categories:

(1) You are experiencing spontaneous clonus
(2) You are experiencing inducible clonus/spontaneous ocular clonus AND agitation
(3) You are experiencing inducible clonus/spontaneous ocular clonus AND diaphoresis
(4) You are experiencing inducible clonus/spontaneous ocular clonus, hypertonia, AND hyperthermia
(5) You are experiencing tremor AND hyperreflexia


Please note that you do not fall into any of those categories.

It is true that people may experience more mild symptoms induced by serotonergic drugs, but that is not serotonin syndrome. Those are really just drug side-effects. Drug effects exist in a continuum ranging from subthreshold to overdose, and often there are overlaps between the normal effects of a drug and the symptoms of overdose. Benzodiazepines cause sedation and anxiolytic effects, and the same effects also occur in overdose. But just because you feel relaxed after taking 10 mg of diazepam doesn't mean that you are experiencing a mild benzodiazepine overdose. Along the same lines, experiencing headache after taking a few mg of 5-HTP does not mean that you are experiencing a mild overdose of serotonin, even if headache can occur during serotonin overdose.

One issue is that there are many other syndromes that can produce effects that overlap with SS. That is one reason why you can't say that you have SS unless you meet the criteria for it -- you are experiencing minor symptoms that could be caused by a variety of things, and you are just guessing they are related to serotonin.
 
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ranidf said:
Thank all the people who have been trying to help me. I understand you are sincere, but at this time I would like to receive only replies from s0rsha. If any other member who hasn't participated in this thread would like to reply - please read carefully all of my posts here before replying, including clicking on a link I have posted and reading it for at least one minute.
While this issue is not an emergency - it is very important to me and my health.
Click to expand...
While I am not sure as to why you would solicit replies from me specifically (many posters more competent than me have contributed with insights I agree to in this thread), I have sent you a private message with a few further relevant questions. I must stress that this is not a substitute for medical consultation and I urge you to see a doctor for this issue as it seems to concern you.
 
I currently live in Thailand/Laos and the doctors here have absolutely no knowledge about 5-htp, food supplements, etc. Thank you for leaving me a private message, replied.

Thanks to serotonin2A for making me to realize that I do not have symptoms about serotonin only, but also supplements like acetyl-l-tyrosine, dmae affect me too. I will appreciate if you would take a look at this thread once a week and share any new ideas you might have, if you will have the time.

One more thing, I also experience relatively severe headache and hotness from taking very small doses of tramadol, as small as 1mg.
 
serotonin2A said:
Your symptoms are not serotonin syndrome. If you had mild to moderate serotonin syndrome then you would be hospitalized.

Did you experience clonus (involuntary rhythmic muscular contractions/relaxations), tremor, or extreme agitation?

If not, then you didn't have a mild case of serotonin syndrome. A headache isn't even necessarily part of the syndrome.
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Very helpful indeed!!
 
Yes, but they're still doctors? They may not know the exact supplement you're taking, but they'll be able to tell you if you have serotonin syndrome or not.

I'm really perplexed by why you think pseudonymous internet forum posters can help you diagnose a potentially life threatening condition better than a doctor.
 
Sixbuckets, thank you for your input. I would hope the focus of this thread will remain what can I do to restore my brain to its original state, and not a discussion about why I choose this forum, why I didn't go to a doctor, etc. In fact, I did go to the doctor, he looked at me with eyes wide open and just ignored the whole issue, because certainly he had no idea what to do.

For the original state I mean, is that 2-3 years ago I could take 150mg of Tramadol and enjoy, or 50mg 5-htp, and I could eat countless number of bananas - all without any headaches or hotness.

Maybe worth to mention that due to taking Charge (legalhighs) and mixing it with Raz, Mitseez and some other legalhighs I developed almost permanent rash on my neck (that would itch too), and the back of the head, with some of the rash would be sometimes on the forehead. I had this rush continuously for about 2 years. It didn't go away no matter what I took, interestingly though if I would take even a small dose of Charge, it would disappear for about a week. The only thing which helped me was Mangosteen's rind which would reduce its severity and itching.

It took it 2 years to disappear since I stopped taking the legalhighs, though it still remains in a very mild condition on my neck and the back of the head. Interestingly, it wouldn't be triggered by foods, but by some food supplements, and the one which would bring the condition to its highest severity is Gotu Kola and DXM (1st/2nd plateau). And, if I remember right, at the time of the rush I still wouldn't be having the serotonin problems, and could take Tramadol, eat bananas, etc.
 
Update to Sorsha (and anyone else.)
He has asked me in pm about what foods trigger it and I initially replied that mostly only bananas and watermelon. But, I revised my answer, however due to his quota of pm messages has been exceeded I couldn't pm him:

I have started to pay better attention and I have to revise my earlier pm to you.
Today I have eaten fried chicken with two slices of bread with raisins. After that I got some headache, and some hotness, much less than I would get from eating one piece of banana though.

Today I have taken 0.75mg of Selegiline on empty stomach in the morning together with Acetyl-L-Tyrosine 12mg. (2mg sublingual and 10mg orally.)
 
I haven't been tested for glucose/insulin tolerance. But since acetyl-l-tyrosine, 5-htp, DMAE affects me, I would assume that is not related.
 
6 years ago I have used St. John's Wort. Maybe it started it all, maybe not. The effects I got is a good stability of mind, not being anxious in any stressful situations, tons of physical energy. I would take it 300mg once a day, later on reducing to 150mg and then to even lower than that and take it sublingually and then swallow. I would combine it with 5-htp low doses.
The side-effects I got from using it would be inability to smoke cigarettes, cannabis, drink alcohol and use most of the drugs. When using any of the above I would get no effects or headache (in case of drinking alcohol/beer.)
I have used it for about 8 months and after that it took it 6-12 months since I stopped using it to return to normal, for example to start to feel the effects of cannabis again.
 
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In addition, for many years I experience excessive tiredness. Interestingly, it is mitigated when I take selegiline even at 1mg, or acv, or coq10, or Huperzine 100mg. However now I cannot take acv and coq10 anymore.
 
Whilst glucose tolerance is too broad for this, you're too quick to assume tyrosine, 5-htp and DMAE as the causes.
Have u looked into salicylates? amines?
 
You need to see a doctor and get a complete blood panel and physical done.

I'm sorry but I can't help you any further than saying that whatever issue is being caused is not as simple as "too much/little serotonin". You seem to have issue with a wide variety of pharmacologically diverse substances administered at dose levels below those seen in typical diets. So go see a doctor, put aside any discussion of "serotonin" for now, and approach this from first principles.
 
Abject: I'm not assuming these as the causes or only the causes. All I know is that taking them brings the effects as I described. Could you please expand a bit on salicylates and amines? Why do you think it may be worth looking at re: my condition?

Sekio: I'll consider doing complete blood panel and I'm not sure what do you mean by physical. But, I have no medical insurance of any kind, so I would better to try first to find the solution in other ways. Going to a doctor proved to be meaningless so far, I doubt there is any specialist in Thailand that understands neurotransmitter precursors that are sold as food supplements, synthetic drugs like Spice and Charge and their interactions. That is a very narrow field.
I do agree with you about "serotonin" specific discussion and if you have noted I have put it aside. The thing with serotonin is that serotonergic issues are the most troubling in my case, or so it seems. (What I mean is: too much serotonin produces stronger bad effects that too much l-tyrosine for example, in my case.) However, now I'm looking at the whole issue more broadly, thus for example BBB came as another possibility.
 
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Another thing, it could be due to amalgam fillings. I have had about 12 of them for more than 20 years. Lately I replaced four of them with composite fillings, so I still have 8 of them. (Though I still believe that my drugs abuse has had a major role too. On one occasion for example, a few years ago, I was using Charge while doing sex with my gf and chain smoking cigarettes inhaling deep. Suddenly I felt like I'll pass out and die. I couldn't move the fingers on my hands. I asked my gf to bend my fingers and I tried to relax. I was borderline on passing out for a few minutes, but eventually snapped out of it. Was it a stroke?)

While amalgam fillings are considered controversially safe, they are confirmed to leak mercury vapors on a daily basis. Though this exposure is not considered dangerous by some health authorities, they are proportional to the number of fillings, total area of the fillings exposed and of course if any filling will be broken and will "leak" overtime, the exposure will go even higher.

http://www.mercurylife.com/mercurylife/light_at_end_of_the_tunnel/ confirms that amalgam creates havoc in the body and brain, and is affecting serotonin.
 
this is not what npd is for
see a doc cause ur barking up the wrong tree
 
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