• Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Seroquel and blocking stims and comedowns

B

blight12

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
1,628
I hope this is ok for ADD.

While I understand the basics of how Seroquel works I was wondering about the technical safety and viability of using Seroquel to kill stims as well as avoid the comedowns especially the really bad ones from multi day meth binges.

I have been using meth for 7 months now and never had to deal with the comedown and while this feels great i do believe there might be health risks by doing this. Additionally i think it is a bad habit as avoiding the downsides of stim abuse can cause greater addiction risks.

Could you guys assist with the technical mechanisms for avoiding the comedown specifically and confirm if it is safe or not? I cant seem to find any stim comedown specific info on the web that is clear enough to answer this question. I think other stim users would also benefit from this analysis.

Thanks guys.
 
seroquel exerts its effects by blocking receptors that dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine bind to. to some extent it may also bind to monoamine transporters like NET/SERT.

in general it is safe to use antipsychotics for stim comedowns, but continuous use can eventually lead to dependence on seroquel and possibly things like tardive dyskinesia
 
Yeah Seroquel is an AP which has a higher risk of creating Tardive Dyskinesia, but this usually only happens with chronic, high doses.
 
Do ap's still cause TD when combined with stimulants? As D2 wont be fully blocked but D2 activity would be more normalised comparable to being sober (depends on the ap dose used offcourse).

That said seroquel is golden to go to sleep after stim abuse, however when i took to much it made me crazy the next day (it induced some mild form of shizophrenia or something, but then again i used to be predromal/had something simular to predromal induced by drug abuse damaged, i was definatly slowly progressing tough and it took ages to slowly reverse).
 
MeDieViL said:
Do ap's still cause TD when combined with stimulants? As D2 wont be fully blocked but D2 activity would be more normalised comparable to being sober (depends on the ap dose used offcourse).
Click to expand...

IIRC, antipsychotics don't cause TD because of low dopamine levels but it's actually caused by dopamine supersensitivity, usually after a long course of APs or if they are withdrawn suddenly. The muscle movements in TD are similar to tics caused by stimulants AFAIK. Your risk of developing TD are pretty low if it's a one off thing i.e. using a dose to comedown off of amphetamine.
 
That doesnt sound plausible as TD can occur during ap treatment where D2 is still sufficiently blocked to show antipsychotic effects, if there was D2 supersensivity ppl that get td during treatment would be immume to any antipsychotic effect wich is not true.

The amphetamine will block D2 supersensivity, it would cause downregulation, if the combo causes baseline D2 activity, one would cause down and the ap upregulation but because its balanced it would remain stable.
 
http://www.priory.com/tardive-dyskinesia.htm - The primacy of neuroleptic-Induced D2 receptor hypersensitivity in tardive dyskinesia

It's not the only theory, but it's currently the most accepted explanation of TD. More specifically D2 hypersensitivity in the nigrostriatal pathway. If it was the case then why do more D2 selective antagonists have higher rates of TD? Acecdotally a friend has developed TD and it coincided with hallucinations and other activity associated with lessened antipsychotic efficiancy and he didn't have hallucinations before AP treatment (he was being treated for depression), hallucinations make me think over-active dopamine. Cold turkey made it worse and he is now on benztropine to help with the TD.

I'm not sure why you believe amphetamine would block supersensitivity, wouldn't it make it worse?
 
Amphetamine downregulates D2, if you add a ap and with the combo you have D2 activity simular to baseline why would it get supersensitive? ok without amp but your brain would be flooded with da and D2 still gets activated wich causes downregulation, or with a ap atleast block upregulation.

They do because they block D2 alot more then less selective ap's, atypical ap's need less D2 blockade then typicals, sero antagonism makes it so less D2 blockade is needed.

If what you say is right then upping the ap dose should rapidly reverse TD.
 
MeDieViL said:
Amphetamine downregulates D2, if you add a ap and with the combo you have D2 activity simular to baseline why would it get supersensitive? ok without amp but your brain would be flooded with da and D2 still gets activated wich causes downregulation, or with a ap atleast block upregulation.

They do because they block D2 alot more then less selective ap's, atypical ap's need less D2 blockade then typicals, sero antagonism makes it so less D2 blockade is needed.

If what you say is right then upping the ap dose should rapidly reverse TD.
Click to expand...

I'm really confused, while chronic amphetamine use downregulates dopamine receptors it releases and blocks reuptake of dopamine making more dopamine available in the synapse. Hypersensitivity means the receptors will react more strongly to a set amount of dopamine than a normal sensitivity receptor so amphetamine will make TD worse not better. Dyskinesia disorders can be treated with drugs that deplete dopamine i.e. reserpine.
 
Wow thanks guys. The first posts where helpful and clearly confirmed that using Seroquel for ending/blocking stims and comedowns is no more risky then the risks of using the stim or Seroquel itself in similar doses for other reasons. The other posts need some simplifying for us normal folk :-)

So, for somebody like me who takes 300mg each night to sleep, i am at no more risk by taking it in the same dose one evening to end a stimulant drug experience (meth, dosed/initiated earlier that day)?

I forgot a major question and point of confusion on this topic. Please forgive the newbness and possible basic/obviousness of this question but...

If stims, like meth increase the amount of dopamine released and "active" in the brain, then when coming down I understand the quantity of dopamine drops fast, perhaps past baseline and below, resulting in the negative comedown experience, anxiety, panic attacks, and any other shitty effects.

So, am i accurate that the meth comedown hell is dopamine dropped below baseline or is it the pleasant dopamine effects wear off while the SNS and peripheral stimulation is still fully active meaning you feel shit since the shitty side effects are no longer masked with the good effects? Or is it something else?

And lastly since Seroquel stops or negates stims but reducing dopamine and basically doing the opposite of the stim, then why does it make you feel normal, like before you dosed stims and NOT feel like you are coming down instead, since effectively you are coming down fast when you use Seroquel on stims, not so? How is the comedown different from what Seroquel does?

Edit: O i think the answer here is Seroquels blocking or noepehdrine and all that shitty stimulation which probably causes the shitty comedowns

Thank you kindly sirs!

Lastly I think using seroquel to avoid the CD is a bad habit as avoiding the downsides of stim abuse can reduce reasons to stop or regulate usage and thus cause greater addiction risks.
 
Last edited:
D2 antagonism doesnt really block stims, amisulpiride never changed the effects of stims much and just tried a extremely strong D2 antagonist you can buy here for nausia and it made the high a bit better (id gues increased D1 activation).

Seroquel blocks stims for me too but its more its other actions that do that, typicals or ami dont block stims or reduce their effects.
 
C6541 said:
I'm really confused, while chronic amphetamine use downregulates dopamine receptors it releases and blocks reuptake of dopamine making more dopamine available in the synapse. Hypersensitivity means the receptors will react more strongly to a set amount of dopamine than a normal sensitivity receptor so amphetamine will make TD worse not better. Dyskinesia disorders can be treated with drugs that deplete dopamine i.e. reserpine.
Click to expand...
The amp will prevent the hypersensivity from occuring in the first place, except when you pop amp when its allready hypersensitive then it wont help (acutely) but over time downregulate D2 and improve it.
 
I used to have terrible shakes in my hands (always have to some degree) that worsened severely with use of seroquel for sleep, especially as my tolerance grew but did get better after (near)daily methamphetamine use for 8 months (still using seroquel from daily to occasionally) but as a warning, your tolerance will grow quite a bit to Sero. I know have to snort 200mg of sero to get to sleep (without amphetamines).
 
Snorting non rec drugs seems wack? But i guess if you need to then you need to.

I started on 300mg and it still works 1.5 years later. No tolerance. Though i rarely experience tolerance issues and it may be related to my non cravings mystery so who knows.
I did notice that the 300mg started working slightly less after after a short while and that common sleeping the whole next day drowsiness complaint also goes away as is also common. I stayed on this dose though and delt with getting to sleep slightly less fast then when i started. The tolerance never increased more then a bit though.

So yes my 300mg dosage now can hardly be felt when trying to keep awake and i can easily stay awake, evne drinking a lot after dosing, however, as soon as you lay your head down, you will be out, it works i swear. So perhaps stay on your original dose. Yes, the obvious drowsiness and noticeable feelings of it working disappear (which is a good thing) but the effectiveness to make you sleep fast never changed a bit, it just became a background thing until eyes closed

Anwyays, I always thought Seroquel was a drug that was known by reputation and mechanism not to cause tolerance. Is this not accurate after all?
Perhaps the perceived tolerance is one of "getting used to the effects, like with other drugs?
 
You cant notice it yourself but ap's remove your personality, i never noticed it either till my girlfriend noticed the difference then i started noting it myself, be carefull using ap's, seroquel induced some kind of shizophrenic crazyness too mild to notice myself too at first.
 
D2 and D3 upregulation, i tought its because of that but amisulpiride wich blocks both doesnt inhibit stims for me, nmda antagonists do a shitload more, they prevent tolerance to nearly all drugs so D2 upregulation is just some unrelated side effect.
 
MeDieViL said:
You cant notice it yourself but ap's remove your personality, i never noticed it either till my girlfriend noticed the difference then i started noting it myself, be carefull using ap's, seroquel induced some kind of shizophrenic crazyness too mild to notice myself too at first.
Click to expand...

How did it manifest? I have noticed i recently dont go out or see friends much (blamed on moving to family further away (40 min drive)). The issue seeing friends means drinking and the distance is risky as i already have a 1 DUI.
Instead i do meth all weekend by myself in my room (my fuck it response to recent issues with my business). I tell myself its to focus on my new job?
Not sure if that helps. I dont notice any wierd thinking or other shit but i have noticed a massive improvement in my anxiety issues and other mood mental well being stuff... Hmmm. Seroquel has also helped much with natural sleeping by avoiding other addicting meds. I dont get any of the side effects either.
 
Sitting in your room all weekend smoking meth to focus on your new job is pretty whack behavious, my friend.

Yeah snorting non-rec drugs is whack but I am going on 5 years without sleeping naturally albeit sheer exhaustion so I am quite reliant on sedatives to some degree. Something I intend to work on soon once I get over my anti-depressants (Mirtazapine) sedative effects.
 
Yeah I have always had sleep issues even before drugs, minor though, around getting to sleep.
I enjoy the natural sleep S provides but it took some getting used to going from the pleasant calming escort into la la land that benzos or z drugs provide. But that's my rule, no daily use of addicting drugs ever. It has always kept me safe.

Yeah lol, thing is i would usually work on my other stuff during that time, so with that gone i didnt know what to do instead while i awaited funds from the new job to get started again.

Since i knew meth worked well for passing time and usually lasted over multiple days, it was the logical answer to passing the 2 weekend days until I had work i could do again.

It has worked perfectly so far as I really hate bordem (as it can lead to bad decisions or dangerous thoughts) and being high and euphoric over weekends instead of bored and annoyed is an obvious improvement of the situation and therefore my solution has been very effective to date. addressing all of the initial concerns

My logic is flawless, you cannot deny it. Lol.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top